My AmazonReview of "The Reasonable Woman," allegedly by Wendy McElroy

[George H. Smith]

What I wonder about is how the book sales are going. I'm guessing minor. Anyone tracking that? I don't see that bitch hitting the NYT Best Selling List.

Who is buying this book, borne out of such? You don't take a man's work and then make a play. My guess? Failure. The Universe does not allow such functions--the shit goes against everything against It. How much will she make? Is it ever going to be a fiscal triumph?

The marketing pocket is too narrow. She would probably (with the help of some hormone creme, at this point in her career), consider it a victory if she breaks a thousand copies. I dunno, no checked.

.

I don't know how TRW has sold, but it has probably done okay by Prometheus standards.

I explained in another post how Wendy mucked up the material in my FOR transcripts, which really includes material from three different courses I gave, some of which didn't belong in the same book. But, as I put it in that other post, Wendy stuffed everything in my FOR transcripts into TRW, as if she were stuffing a Christmas goose, because she didn't understand what I had in mind in many cases.

I delayed for a long time before I decided to use the FOR transcript as the basis for a book. If the use of the FOR material had been more judicious and if a book had been more focused than TRW, chances are good that the result would have been commercially successful.

This is the real harm, in terms of financial damages, that I suffered from Wendy's plagiarism. I can no longer use seven years of my work in an attempt to write my own book in my own way. There is no way to tell if my efforts would have been commercially successful, but we might be talking about tens of thousands of dollars, possibly much more --not to mention speaking engagements, etc., that typically come from the publication of a successful book. I could also have used the book to promote more FOR classes. I made a living from those FOR classes for seven years, and there was no reason I could not have picked them up again, especially with a book to serve as advertising.

Over a period of years, therefore, Wendy's plagiarism might have cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars. And people wonder why I am still pissed off.

Ghs

[Dennis Hardin]

Forget copyright law, I would think that any competent contract lawyer would be champing at the bit to take a case like yours.

I suspect there's one key element missing, the thing any lawyer would be looking for first: Deep pockets. Is there anyone involved in this dispute that GHS could collect from? And have something left over after legal fees? I don't know, but I'm doubting it.

According to one source, Prometheus Books has an estimated annual revenue of $10 to $20 million. George stated previously (#120868) that one of their attorneys acknowledged the apparent plagiarism years ago but they did nothing about it. If they have continued to publish subsequent editions since that time, the case would seem to be fairly strong.

[George H. Smith]

You guys need to keep in mind that none of my FOR material was copyrighted. After Wendy transcribed a bunch of my material from my FOR classses on cassette tapes, I saw no reason to copyright it at that time.

Wendy had copies of the FOR transcripts on her computer, but I trusted her. Biggest fucking mistake of my life.

Ghs

[Dennis Hardin]

You guys need to keep in mind that none of my FOR material was copyrighted. After Wendy transcribed a bunch of my material from my FOR classses on cassette tapes, I saw no reason to copyright it at that time.

Wendy had copies of the FOR transcripts on her computer, but I trusted her. Biggest fucking mistake of my life.

Ghs

Are you confusing copyright with copyright registration? My layman’s understanding is that copyright is automatic with publication, but formal registration may be required for statutory damages. Apparently the Berne Convention had a major impact on this, at least outside the U.S. According to Wikipedia, the copyright registration requirement for damages may have taken effect in 1978—and FOR was first “published” in 1975. (Somewhere around here I have the notes to prove it.) That makes me wonder if you might still have a case. I honestly have no idea.

I’m just saying that a qualified attorney ought to make the call about whether to pursue this or not. Especially since you invested so many years of your life creating this material.

Sorry if I'm rehashing material previously covered in this thread. I have only read smatterings of it. I have to work for a living.

[George H. Smith]

You guys need to keep in mind that none of my FOR material was copyrighted. After Wendy transcribed a bunch of my material from my FOR classses on cassette tapes, I saw no reason to copyright it at that time.

Wendy had copies of the FOR transcripts on her computer, but I trusted her. Biggest fucking mistake of my life.

Ghs

Are you confusing copyright with copyright registration? My layman’s understanding is that copyright is automatic with publication, but formal registration may be required for statutory damages. Apparently the Berne Convention had a major impact on this, at least outside the U.S. According to Wikipedia, the copyright registration requirement for damages may have taken effect in 1978—and FOR was first “published” in 1975. (Somewhere around here I have the notes to prove it.) That makes me wonder if you might still have a case. I honestly have no idea.

I’m just saying that a qualified attorney ought to make the call about whether to pursue this or not. Especially since you invested so many years of your life creating this material.

Sorry if I'm rehashing material previously covered in this thread. I have only read smatterings of it. I have to work for a living.

I'm not going to renege on my 1998 public pledge not to pursue any kind of legal action against Wendy. That would make me a hypocrite.

Moreover, even if I were inclined to pursue legal action, the case would probably take years, and I have no desire to have this ugly business haunt the rest of my life.

As things stand now, I have completed two of three stages of my plan. My essential posts have been written; and, in stage three, I will transfer those essential posts to my website, perhaps adding some others to flesh out some details, as needed. I will also include eyewitness testimonies of people who participated in my FOR classes in 1975, long before I met Wendy. Many of these early participants, such as you, are still around and not difficult to locate. I have already had email exchanges with some others. I will also have downloadable files of my FOR transcripts.

My website will then provide a central location for all the information, minus the chaff that has clogged up this thread. Then history can judge who was telling the truth in this matter. There will be no doubt about the outcome, and Wendy knows it.

It astonishes me that Wendy made no effort to negotiate a resolution. I sent her an email just a few weeks ago giving her one last chance, just prior to initiating this latest barrage, and as usual I got no reply.

I assume that Wendy has been getting advice from Brad and, possibly, Kinsella. Congratulations, guys. You sold Wendy down the river, and she isn't ever coming back.

Ghs

Addendum: An OLer who recently purchased a copy of the FOR transcript told me that he wants to go through FOR and TRW over time and locate as many parallel passages as he can. I suspect that others who purchased FOR will do the same, to whatever degree. I don't have the time to draw up an exhaustive list, which would run into many hundreds of passages, but with others working on the case, we will eventually have evidence that will dwarf the examples I have posted thus far.

[Rich Engle]

['m not going to renege on my 1998 public pledge not to pursue any kind of legal action against Wendy. That would make me a hypocrite

Oh, why the fuck not? You're already tearing at her hard. War is war, George.

Try your current stance in a street fight, which, in fact, this is. If there is that much almighty $ at stake, you go get that. The foul was not yours, which means now it is bareknuckle. Listen to me! No gloves.

You, or one of us, can find a hungry attorney to put the Fear of (X) into her demon soul. I alone have to sort the thing, but one way or another it is time to lawyer up, and set upon this horrid woman.

And no, I don't care about the sheet. You have the evidence. Big Evidence.

BTW, yes, good chess position for white. I wonder if this thing here is a gambit, or not? I don't think so . . . One thing that works real well in Chess is a strong policy regarding attack.

And you started a very nice one.

Play through. Cast her miserable soul into the void.

Now, I will Inspire You<tm>:

Then you will feel better and listen to this (after the bitch-ass commercial)--

Finest Kind,

rde

After All, We Are Professionals

Edited June 26, 2011 by Rich Engle

[Starbuckle]

"This is the real harm, in terms of financial damages, that I suffered from Wendy's plagiarism. I can no longer use seven years of my work in an attempt to write my own book in my own way."

Why not? You may have explained this, but it seems to me you could do a book with a preface explaining the situation, present the material the way you want to, and let the chips fall where they may. Is Brendy going to sue for your plagiarizing of the plagiarism of your work? Even if no publisher would touch the book, avenues for self-publication have multiplied in recent years. You would make money.

[Rich Engle]

"This is the real harm, in terms of financial damages, that I suffered from Wendy's plagiarism. I can no longer use seven years of my work in an attempt to write my own book in my own way."

Why not? You may have explained this, but it seems to me you could do a book with a preface explaining the situation, present the material the way you want to, and let the chips fall where they may. Is Brendy going to sue for your plagiarizing of the plagiarism of your work? Even if no publisher would touch the book, avenues for self-publication have multiplied in recent years. You would make money.

I'm smelling a tell-all semi-prose piece.

rde

Bring Out The Pulp

[Xray]

Xray,

Go here for a couple pictures of Jazz that you may have missed when I used them as avatars. You can enlarge them a bit by clicking on the Pic.

http://home.comcast.net/~smikro/site/?/photos/&PHPSESSID=1814987e1f306255ea34fc749fa49592

That picture of Jazz is simply adorable! http://home.comcast.net/~smikro/pwpimages/Jazz%20and%20Me%20website.jpg?PHPSESSID=1814987e1f306255ea34fc749fa49592

But Herbert was cute too.

Herbert died in my arms, while a friend was driving me to an emergency vet, nearly a year to the day that the video was filmed. He died at around 8 a.m. on Dec. 26, 2008 -- the morning after Christmas. I was heartbroken, to put it mildly, for months afterwards. You can become very attached to a dog when you live alone.

My sister's 14-year-old West Highland terrier died in her arms too while being driven to the vet. She had an appointment for the dog to be put to sleep because of multiple grave health problems, and heartbreaking as it was for her, looking back she says she is glad the dog had not to be euthanized by the vet.

How old was Herbert when he died?

I think I told the story some time ago on OL about how I got Jazz, but even if I did, it bears repeating. It is an altogether remarkable story, one of the most touching things that has ever happened in my life.

....

This very touching story is also an example of the immense positive influence which empathy and kindness can have on the soul.

Not ony did it make you happy as the receiver of the act of kindness, it also made the givers happy. And Jazz!

Edited June 26, 2011 by Xray

[George H. Smith]

"This is the real harm, in terms of financial damages, that I suffered from Wendy's plagiarism. I can no longer use seven years of my work in an attempt to write my own book in my own way."

Why not? You may have explained this, but it seems to me you could do a book with a preface explaining the situation, present the material the way you want to, and let the chips fall where they may. Is Brendy going to sue for your plagiarizing of the plagiarism of your work? Even if no publisher would touch the book, avenues for self-publication have multiplied in recent years. You would make money.

Yes, this is a possibility, but I have another book I would rather write which also has commercial potential; in fact, I already have around a third of it written. A short book aimed at a popular audience, the title is Where Our Freedom Came From and How We Lost It.

I may sell royalty points in this book, as I have done with projects in the past, in order to finance the writing.

Having announced this title, I will now need to write the book quickly, before Wendy comes out with her own book, Where Did Our Freedom Come From and How Did We Lose It?

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

My sister's 14-year-old West Highland terrier died in her arms too while being driven to the vet. She had an appointment for the dog to be put to sleep because of multiple grave health problems, and heartbreaking as it was for her, looking back she says she is glad the dog had not to be euthanized by the vet.

How old was Herbert when he died?

I'm not sure how old Herbert was. My stepdaugther found him in 2001 in Miller Park, around a half mile from my home. His ID tag had been pried off, and he was in pretty bad shape. I was annoyed when she brought him home. We already had two cats, and I said there was no way we could handle a dog.

Immediately after I said this, Herbert jumped up on my lap, curled up, and went to sleep. I said, "This isn't fair," but my heart was his after that.

The vet estimated that Herbert was 2-3 years old when we found him, so he was probably around 11 when he died. The expected life span of Bichons is not as long as other breeds, though 11 falls short of the average by several years. Herbert had a number of serious health problems, so I didn't expect him to live very long. Even so, I kept hoping upon hope that the dreaded day would never arrive. But it did, as it does for all of us.

As traumatic as it was to have Herbert die in my arms, in retrospect I preferred that to waking up one morning and finding him dead. He was a great dog. I used to tell people that almost every dog owner believes that his dog is the best in the world, but that my claim was actually true.

Herbert was my first Bichon, and after getting him I read up on the breed. They are known for being perpetual puppies. The Bichon in this video is not Jazz, but it is a dead ringer for Jazz. This is exactly how Jazz sleeps, and I often put a cover over him during winter months.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM3ixX_4BsA&feature=related

Ghs

Addendum: In this video you will see a human arm next to the Bichon. The Bichon was obviously sleeping next to someone when this was taken. That's the way it is with Bichons. If you ever get one, expect to have a sleeping partner for the next 12-15 years. Then there is their intense interest in people having sex, which they view as a game that they want to join. This can be very annoying, frankly, but Bichons are so damned cute that it is difficult to get angy at them.

[Xray]

In the quotes you have posted, the "ominous parallels" as another poster called them, are so obvious that it looks like Wendy did not really go to the trouble of altering the original.

I believe the expression was The Obvious Parallels.

You are right, sorry about the typo. I meant to write "obvious parallels", citing poster Starbuckle's pun 'inspired' by Peikoff's book title The Ominous Parallels.

My version is less humorous and even twisted, but more accurate: The Omnivorous Parallels

.

It is more accurate, yes.

Contrary to Wendy's descriptions in TRW, FOR was never an "intellectual therapy" group;

One could call this an attempt on Wendy's part to "dissociate" herself from the source (FOR) where she took the material from.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Xray

[George H. Smith]

Xray:

I thought of the video below because Jazz just finished what Bichon owners call the Bichon Blitz. As in the video below, Jazz always does this after I bathe him, but he usually blitzes at least once each day no matter what. Bichon Blitzes don't last very long -- maybe a minute -- and they are hilarious to watch.

Ghs

[Xray]

Maybe I missed this earlier, George, but have you explained why you didn't sue to enforce your contract with McElroy? I can understand that you're philosophically opposed to copyright law, and therefore would not want to sue for copyright infringement, including in regard to the lifting of your writings which were not part of the materials that you had given to McElroy to be used in your joint project, but I don't understand why you didn't hire a lawyer to enforce your contract and to tear apart McElroy's various versions of events in a court of law.

The conctract constitues a piece of hard evidence. Here is a link to the original source (which Brad himself provided) - the contract:

http://www.wendymcel...on/contract.gif

It verbatim says in point 3:

"The order of the author's names will first be be Smith, then McElroy."

I'm a layperson, but doesn't Mc Elroy's publishing the book under her name alone constitute a clear breach of contract?

Every time Wendy and her team cite that contract as alleged proof of Ghs's violation of it, they shoot themselves in the foot because the opposite is true. For on the grounds of that contract, Wendy cannot claim any right to sole authorship.

On one hand, Team Wendy are trying to get around this difficulty by claiming she wrote the whole book from scratch after deleting George's material, on the other hand, Team Wendy cite that contract as alleged evidence entitling Wendy to go it alone. But such evidence does not exist.

The contract is actually in the way for any "I wrote it alone" version by Wendy.

That pesky little contract has Ghs's input as a given. It says co-authorship, with George H. Smith being named first. In their eagerness to promote the "I wrote it alone" version, Team Wendy disregard this completely.

But as for suing, not only are laywers expensive, Ghs also convincingly (imo) argued against it here:

I'm not going to renege on my 1998 public pledge not to pursue any kind of legal action against Wendy. That would make me a hypocrite.

Moreover, even if I were inclined to pursue legal action, the case would probably take years, and I have no desire to have this ugly business haunt the rest of my life.

Indeed, the question "Is it worth the trouble?" not only refers to financial expenses but also to the amount of negative emotional energy invested in a cause.

Also, through feelings of intense anger, one can be psychologically tied to the other person too much, which is counterproductive if the goal is to get this individual 'out of one's system'.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Xray

[George H. Smith]

Contrary to Wendy's descriptions in TRW, FOR was never an "intellectual therapy" group;

One could call this an attempt on Wendy's part to "dissociate" herself from the source (FOR) where she took the material from.

Not exactly.

Wendy never mentions FOR by name, which I think was her effort to dissociate herself from FOR. Rather she mentions (p 142) "a unique intellectual therapy group created by the philosopher George Smith." This is a mischaracterization of FOR, as I have noted before.

FOR was never a "therapy" group of any kind. Wendy confused FOR with another course I gave, "Principles, Purpose, and Practice," which did have a "therapy" feel to it. (This was one reason I discontinued giving PPP after a few rounds.) But some of my PPP material found its way into the FOR transcripts, so Wendy lumped everything together while plagiarizing, oblivious to the crucial distinctions between FOR and PPP.

Ghs

[Xray]

Xray:

I thought of the video below because Jazz just finished what Bichon owners call the Bichon Blitz. As in the video below, Jazz always does this after I bathe him, but he usually blitzes at least once each day no matter what. Bichon Blitzes don't last very long -- maybe a minute -- and they are hilarious to watch.

Ghs

Hilarious to watch that Bichon blitz around like greased lightning!

Edited June 26, 2011 by Xray

[George H. Smith]

Hilarious to watch that Bichon blitz around like greased lightning!

You might think that older Bichons don't blitz, but they do. I once talked to a person whose Bichon was 14 years old, and he still blitzed. Herbert blitzed nearly to the day he died.

Bichons are remarkably athletic. Jazz will frequently leap a considerable distance from a chair to the couch in my living room. Bichons used to be popular circus dogs. Maybe they still are, but I haven't been to a circus in decades.

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

The conctract constitues a piece of hard evidence. Here is a link to the original source (which Brad himself provided) - the contract:

http://www.wendymcel...on/contract.gif

Brendy have never caught on that the contract works in my favor far more than it does in Wendy's.

I recently discussed the contract in detail on this thread, but my posts can easily be missed because of the hundreds of other posts. Here are links to my two most important statements on the contract:

http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9928&view=findpost&p=137661

http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9928&view=findpost&p=137665

These are contiguous posts, so you need only scroll down after reading the first.

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

The conctract constitues a piece of hard evidence. Here is a link to the original source (which Brad himself provided) - the contract:

http://www.wendymcel...on/contract.gif

Brendy have never caught on that the contract works in my favor far more than it does in Wendy's.

I recently discussed the contract in detail on this thread, but my posts can easily be missed because of the hundreds of other posts. Here are links to my two most important statements on the contract:

http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9928&view=findpost&p=137661

http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9928&view=findpost&p=137665

These are contiguous posts, so you need only scroll down after reading the first.

Ghs

I just reread my two posts, and I noticed that I had mistakenly written "1979" in a few places as the year of the contract, instead of the correct year of 1989.

I don't know why I made this error repeatedly, except perhaps my haste in writing. In any case, I might have made the same error in other places or in other posts as well, so I ask the following: If any Olers are reading a post of mine that refers to the contract, and if my post lists the year of the contract as anything other than 1989, please let me know immediately so I can correct the error. Factual details are extremely important to me in this matter. Thanks.

Ghs

[caroljane]

Bichons used to be popular circus dogs. Maybe they still are, but I haven't been to a circus in decades.

Ghs

Au contraire, you have been ringmastering one here for months now, with some wild sideshows.

[caroljane]

We have a dog (6-year-old Golden Retriever), and I have become a dog lover since we have her. I originally was a "no dog in my home" person, and finally only gave in because our daughter had kept begging us for years to get one; end of story is that the dog has quickly become the beloved 'queen' in our home.

Snap again, Angela. My eldest granddog is also a golden Lab, stoical companion and guardian of my 2-year-old grandson.

You have nowshown unmistakable Iglovian tendencies and are hereby inducted into the Ladies' Auxiliary of the Fraternal Order. Don't worry, you don't have to marry any of the Brothers (your husband might not like that, let alone their wives), just take a few pemmican-scraping lessons. We look forward to seeing you at the next PolarCon. You can hook up with either the Lapps or the Finns for transport, and don't forget to bring your own lunch.

Sororally,

Carol

[George H. Smith]

Bichons used to be popular circus dogs. Maybe they still are, but I haven't been to a circus in decades.

Ghs

Au contraire, you have been ringmastering one here for months now, with some wild sideshows.

I put on a good show, if I do say so myself. Plagiarism, sex, drugs, personal betrayal, cute dogs, music, humor, etc. -- what more could you ask for in a thread? And judging by the 18,202 views this thread has gotten so far, my multi-ring circus, vaudeville act, and freak show is very popular.

Ghs

Addendum:

The 18,000-plus number of hits is a very good number for me and a very bad number for Wendy. Despite the protestations of some people that no one cares about the plagiarism scandal, many people obviously do.

[Jonathan]

I'm not going to renege on my 1998 public pledge not to pursue any kind of legal action against Wendy. That would make me a hypocrite.

Um, am I being a bit slow here? You've mentioned several times that you're opposed to copyright law, but is the real issue that you're opposed to using the state for anything, including the enforcement of legitimate contracts, or the retaliation against violent acts of initiation of force?

In a statist world, or even a minarchist world, what's a true-blue anarchist to do? Is it your view that using the state to pursue justice, even in a purely retaliatory mode, is unjust, and therefore your only option is something like pacifism or a PR campaign to inform the public of a perpetrator's rights-violating actions?

If so, it appears that anarchists themselves aren't too interested in the practical realities of their ideology (and/or are easily distracted from their principles by granny poontang). In their ideal world, what's to prevent anyone from violating contracts with them, or even beating them senseless and taking whatever they want from them, if their fellow anarchists are going to respond with the nonchalance that they've shown in regard to the McElroy case?

J

[George H. Smith]

I'm not going to renege on my 1998 public pledge not to pursue any kind of legal action against Wendy. That would make me a hypocrite.

Um, am I being a bit slow here? You've mentioned several times that you're opposed to copyright law, but is the real issue that you're opposed to using the state for anything, including the enforcement of legitimate contracts, or the retaliation against violent acts of initiation of force?

In a statist world, or even a minarchist world, what's a true-blue anarchist to do? Is it your view that using the state to pursue justice, even in a purely retaliatory mode, is unjust, and therefore your only option is something like pacifism or a PR campaign to inform the public of a perpetrator's rights-violating actions?

If so, it appears that anarchists themselves aren't too interested in the practical realities of their ideology (and/or are easily distracted from their principles by granny poontang). In their ideal world, what's to prevent anyone from violating contracts with them, or even beating them senseless and taking whatever they want from them, if their fellow anarchists are going to respond with the nonchalance that they've shown in regard to the McElroy case?

J

I am not opposed to using the legal system in cases of murder or other authentic violations of rights.

I would not even say that I am vehemently opposed to reasonable copyright laws, since the better cases for intellectual property (e.g., that by Lysander Spooner) make some legitimate points. It's just that I have never been able to justify the notion of intellectual property to my own satisfaction; and since to posit a property right is also to posit an instance where coercion can legitimately be used, I think the case for any given kind of property right must be absolutely conclusive, and not merely plausible.

I made my 1998 pledge because of the first email that I sent to Wendy. As noted before, I did in fact threaten to sue her in that private email I wrote while very angry, so after I had calmed down in a day or so, I wanted my position to be absolutely clear.

In short, I won't sue Wendy for plagiarism because I cannot justify the idea of intellectual property, not because I think libertarians, including anarchists, should never use the governmental legal system. I'm a clever guy, so I could probably figure out some way around this theoretical problem, but that would be way too convenient. I don't like people who defend a principle and then violate it as soon as it is their ox being gored.

Ghs

[Brant Gaede]

Bichons used to be popular circus dogs. Maybe they still are, but I haven't been to a circus in decades.

Ghs

Au contraire, you have been ringmastering one here for months now, with some wild sideshows.

I put on a good show, if I do say so myself. Plagiarism, sex, drugs, personal betrayal, cute dogs, music, humor, etc. -- what more could you ask for in a thread? And judging by the 18,202 views this thread has gotten so far, my multi-ring circus, vaudeville act, and freak show is very popular.

Ghs

Addendum:

The 18,000-plus number of hits is a very good number for me and a very bad number for Wendy. Despite the protestations of some people that no one cares about the plagiarism scandal, many people obviously do.

I think many of those hits are search engines spreading the word throughout Internet-land: sex, drugs, rock and roll, etc.

--Brant