My AmazonReview of "The Reasonable Woman," allegedly by Wendy McElroy

[Selene]

George:

Was she a Canadian citizen when she wrote the book in question?

Was the book in question published in the US or Canada?

Adam

[George H. Smith]

The heat index put it well over a hundred for the last several days. Then a small, but hanging tropical storm hit us. Right on the way to play a pagan summer solstice ceremony, of all things. My Florida room flooded and I had to pull all the amps and such.

All OK now.

You'll find something, George. And maybe just in time.

rde

This is where the faith part comes in.

Ever try to move 4000 books with no car? Maybe I can summon angels to transport them for me.

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

George:

Was she a Canadian citizen when she wrote the book in question?

Was the book in question published in the US or Canada?

Adam

Wendy is a native Canadian, but I don't know about her status after she moved back to Canada c. 1985.

The "book in question" was never written, so it was never published. Wendy merely claims that we co-wrote a book, but that she later decided to destroy the finished manuscript in 1994.

Don't try to make sense of Wendy's account. It is a hopeless task. In this respect, the only difference between Wendy and a nutty bag lady is the shopping cart.

Ghs

[Selene]

George:

Was she a Canadian citizen when she wrote the book in question?

Was the book in question published in the US or Canada?

Adam

Wendy is a native Canadian, but I don't know about her status after she moved back to Canada c. 1985.

The "book in question" was never written, so it was never published. Wendy merely claims that we co-wrote a book, but that she later decided to destroy the finished manuscript in 1994.

Don't try to make sense of Wendy's account. It is a hopeless task. In this respect, the only difference between Wendy and a nutty bag lady is the shopping cart.

Ghs

George:

I already know my personal opinion of this issue, but I choose to be completely neutral in my posts.

So, was the book in question published in the US? or Canada? or elsewhere?

Adam

[George H. Smith]

George:

Was she a Canadian citizen when she wrote the book in question?

Was the book in question published in the US or Canada?

Adam

Wendy is a native Canadian, but I don't know about her status after she moved back to Canada c. 1985.

The "book in question" was never written, so it was never published. Wendy merely claims that we co-wrote a book, but that she later decided to destroy the finished manuscript in 1994.

Don't try to make sense of Wendy's account. It is a hopeless task. In this respect, the only difference between Wendy and a nutty bag lady is the shopping cart.

Ghs

George:

I already know my personal opinion of this issue, but I choose to be completely neutral in my posts.

So, was the book in question published in the US? or Canada? or elsewhere?

Adam

Adam,

Again the "book in question" was never published.

I can appreciate how difficult it is to follow Wendy's tortured logic, because I have been dealing with it for years. So here is an accurate thumbnail sketch of her argument, written as if Wendy were speaking:

I, Wendy, co-authored a book with Ghs. Then I wrote a finished draft of our book. Ghs claims that I plagiarized much of TRW from our book, which was never published. But that is impossible, because I destroyed my copy of our co-authored manuscript in 1994, before I started writing TRW. I wrote TRW from scratch. Honest to God.

But none of this matters, because even if I am a big fat liar -- that is, even if I did "quote" stuff that George wrote for our book that was never published -- I owned half of the rights to our book, so I had the right to publish the entire book, including the half that George wrote, under my name alone.

But of couse I didn't do this, because I really did destroy that manuscript in 1994. But even if I did do it, I had a right, according to my moral conscience, to do what I didn't do.

Signed

WM

I'm sorry, but that's about as clear as it gets.

Ghs

[Selene]

George:

I understand completely.

Let me put it another way. Was "TRW," by Wendy McElroy published in the US, or Canada, or elsewhere?

Adam

[George H. Smith]

George:

I understand completely.

Let me put it another way. Was "TRW," by Wendy McElroy published in the US, or Canada, or elsewhere?

Adam

Okay, I misunderstood.

TRW was published by Prometheus Books, located in Amherst, NY.

Ghs

[Brant Gaede]

Does anyone on OL know much about copyright law?

I ask this because Wendy's legal argument, which I first heard about in 1998, boils down to this;

Suppose Jack and Jill agree to co-author a book 50-50, and they sign a contract to that effect. Then, after they have completed the book, either author can take the entire book and publish it his or her name alone.

This argument sounded absolutely bonkers to me when I first heard about it in 1998. But Andrea Rich, after consulting a copyright attorney, told me there was something to it.

This has nothing to do with my charge of plagiarism, of course, but can anyone fill me in on the details? I know American law is really screwed up in some ways, but this is beyond the pale.

Ghs

I'd guess it's to prevent one party from stopping the other party from publishing anything at all. Publish first, sort it out later. However, I have no expertise in copyright law.

Here's a twist, not really apropos: My grandfather sold an article to Look magazine in the 1920s which then refused to publish it. He sued to force publication. He lost the case.

--Brant

[George H. Smith]

I am frankly astonished by Wendy's "updated" page. It doesn't contain links to very many documents, so you would expect each document to carry a some punch. Not so, by a long shot.

Here is another 1998 post of mine (or part of a post) that is completely misrepresented by the link title. In addition, it is called an "altered document," which makes no sense at all.

Here is the link from the main page:

The "altered document" : Smith's admission, in an open letter to Prometheus, was omitted from later postings.

When you click on the link, you will find something I posted earlier on OL:

This was part of a message posted to the randian-feminism list on Wed, 20 May 1998 at 15:06:51 zone -0700. It has been omitted from other postings of that message, e.g., on the newsgroups alt.politics.libertarian and talk.politics.libertarian.

Addendum: A Letter to Prometheus Books

I hope you have seen Wendy’s reply to me, and the contract that she posted on her web page. That contract was the missing link in my case against her, since I lost my copy years ago and had no way of proving that we ever signed one. I had hoped that this public controversy might scare her bad enough to go public with it, and it did.

We now have the following elements::

(1) An extensive manuscript on the Fundamentals of Reasoning which is beyond any doubt an early draft for THE REASONABLE WOMAN.

(2) A contract between Wendy and I to co-author an unnamed book on reasoning.

(3) Wendy’s admission. that we contributed 50-50 to the book. (This is not actually true; the manuscript as written up to that point was all mine. We never got far enough on the project for Wendy to add her contributions, e.g., some material on women and statistics. But, for the sake of argument, I will settle for her admission of 50-50. By the way, what do you think of her false claim that the book was submitted to Prometheus in 1991? You know it was not.)

When you are convinced that the manuscript is what I represent it to be, then, given Wendy’s posted admissions, there can be no reasonable doubt that I am the co-author (and, according to the contract, the first author) of THE REASONABLE. WOMAN.

George H. Smith

First, I had absolutely nothing to do with the postings mentioned here. All my emails were sent to private parties. I wasn't hooked up to the Internet in 1998, and I had no ideas what elists were. Yet my addendum is presented here as an "altered document."

Second, what was my supposed "admission"? I admit nothing here. I assume Brendy is referring the contract, but I never suggest that I believe Wendy's account of our contract; on the contrary, I explicitly denied it. I merely said that I would accept her 50-50 claim "for the sake of argument.

Brendy's tactic, of which this is the second example I've given, seems to be based on the assumption that Wendy's readers will not actually read the posted documents. Rather, they will accept the characterizations of the link titles, some of which are outright lies, and then quickly scan the documents at most.

In short, Wendy's updated site is full of arguments from link titles and sentence fragments. Are her followers really that stupid?

I suppose I should be pleased. If Brendy pulled out their heavy guns for this updated page, then I am in much better shape than I ever imagined.

Just think --if Brad had not blundered onto OL once again with a link to Wendy's updated page, I might never have discovered any of this stuff. Instead, after writing my "Case closed" post, I would have gone into semi-retirement.

Thanks again, Brad! Your sense of timing is impeccable! Please come back soon. Please...please...pretty please.

Ghs

[Selene]

George:

Totally understood. You have a lot on your emotional plate right now.

To some degree, as Carol, pointed out, it must be cathartic.

I happen to be working on copy write issues right now for an existing client, so this particular article is "amusing" in your case.

At any rate, IN BED TOGETHER: THE PROBLEMS OF COLLABORATION.

2.

The Rights to Use The Work.

In the absence of an agreement, each creator is entitled to license and use the work, on a non-exclusive basis, as long as he or she accounts to the other creators for any income so received. While this may not be an issue as long as the user obtains the signatures of all creators, one can envision a circumstance where each creator wants to offer the project to separate users. Accordingly, the collaboration agreement should allocate the final decision-making power to one of the collaborators.

I will have much more by the end of the week, but I will send it to you privately.

Adam

[George H. Smith]

Okay, folks, time for a musical interlude -- an old fashioned sing along. I have written new lyrics for an old standard, "My Favorite Things." Just click for the music and then follow my lyrics below.

Libel and lawsuits and Roman massages

Briefcase and blowjobs and self-righteous causes

Perverts in movies and contracts misread

These are some things that I found on this thread

Shotguns and scandals and Canucks and Bertie

Red headed dancers and tales oh so dirty

Books never written and Vaseline porn

These make me wish I had never been born

Hundreds of postings and no resolution

Motives and theories but no restitution

Endless disputes and betrayals of friends

Oh God please help us will this never end?

When the dog bites

When the bee stings

When you're feeling sad

Just say to yourself "I am not on that thread"

And then you won't feel so bad

(Repeat)

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

George:

Totally understood. You have a lot on your emotional plate right now.

To some degree, as Carol, pointed out, it must be cathartic.

Yes, very cathartic -- more than I expected. I woke up this morning feeling great, and I wrote the lyrics to "My Favorite Things" (above) while taking my Bichon, Jazz, for a very long walk in a nearby park. When I can write parodies like that, it means that I am in a lighthearted mood.

It's interesting how dogs pick up on moods. When I'm under a lot of pressure or depressed, Jazz cuddles up next to me. When I'm energetic, he wants to play all the time.

Anyway, this is a good spot for me to halt my heavier posts, so I won't be writing any more substantive posts on this thread for the forseeable future. Of course, I will still respond to other posts, if appropriate, but I've said everything that needs to be said for now.

Those last two posts in my "narrative" about the contract did the trick. That contract was the one thing that I had never addressed in detail before, and I really needed to do it. I could feel years of tension fade away after I finished those.

Ghs

Addendum: There is a lot of self-deprecating humor in my lyrics. I don't know why, but I found that this sort of thing can be very healthy from time to time. I guess if you can laugh at yourself, you can laugh at almost anything.

[Selene]

George:

Good. I thought you had passed through that veil of "how the fuck did I get myself into this mess" when I saw that parody.

As to the symbiosis of dog and man, there is no doubt in my mind.

I also agree that self deprecating humor is critical to mental health and I have been in a mess or two in my life and I am still standing and laughing.

I hope you chuckled about the In Bed Together article. I thought it was quite fitting and it made the legal point.

Good premises!

Adam

[George H. Smith]

George:

Good. I thought you had passed through that veil of "how the fuck did I get myself into this mess" when I saw that parody.

As to the symbiosis of dog and man, there is no doubt in my mind.

I also agree that self deprecating humor is critical to mental health and I have been in a mess or two in my life and I am still standing and laughing.

I hope you chuckled about the In Bed Together article. I thought it was quite fitting and it made the legal point.

Good premises!

Adam

Yeah, that In Bed Together title was funny.

I first started to write a parody by using the theme from Gilligan's Island. Ralph Raico and I used to use that a lot when we wrote parodies at conferences years ago, because it works so well with names.

But "My Favorite Things" works better when you are dealing with lists of things.

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

As to the symbiosis of dog and man, there is no doubt in my mind.

Jazz is my second Bichon, and I've never had a dog that sleeps like he does. He almost always sleeps on his back, sometimes with his legs straight up in the air. He reminds of one of those cartoon dogs.

Whenever I lie down, Jazz is there within minutes. He comes up near my face and drapes himself over my body in an odd sort of way. He does this so I can place my hand under his rear end and slide him on his back. Then he falls asleep with his legs flopped open, and with his head near to mine, and he sleeps like that all night. He has been doing this for two years now, and it still cracks me up.

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

I changed my avatar to a pic with me and Jazz. So why doesn't it show up? All that happened is that my old pic looks distorted. The new pic uploaded okay and looks fine on the "change your avatar" page.

Ghs

Ah, works fine now.

That is jazz the day after I got him at around 6 months. He looks pretty much the same now, though a little bigger.

Ghs

[Selene]

I changed by avatar to a pic with me and Jazz. So why doesn't it show up?. All that happened is that my old pic looks distorted.

Ghs

George:

It shows up to me. You might have to sign in and out so it takes maybe? A guess by a technological idiot.

Adam

[George H. Smith]

I changed by avatar to a pic with me and Jazz. So why doesn't it show up?. All that happened is that my old pic looks distorted.

Ghs

George:

It shows up to me. You might have to sign in and out so it takes maybe? A guess by a technological idiot.

Adam

See above. Works fine now.

Ghs

[George H. Smith]

I changed by avatar to a pic with me and Jazz. So why doesn't it show up?. All that happened is that my old pic looks distorted.

Ghs

George:

It shows up to me. You might have to sign in and out so it takes maybe? A guess by a technological idiot.

Adam

See above. Works fine now.

Ghs

This is a better pic of Jazz.

Ghs

[Selene]

I changed by avatar to a pic with me and Jazz. So why doesn't it show up?. All that happened is that my old pic looks distorted.

Ghs

George:

It shows up to me. You might have to sign in and out so it takes maybe? A guess by a technological idiot.

Adam

See above. Works fine now.

Ghs

This is a better pic of Jazz.

Ghs

Ahh, a "kinder, gentler GHS!"

The compassionate Anarchist!

Geez, now you are going to move to Texas and not run for President!

Adam

[George H. Smith]

I changed by avatar to a pic with me and Jazz. So why doesn't it show up?. All that happened is that my old pic looks distorted.

Ghs

George:

It shows up to me. You might have to sign in and out so it takes maybe? A guess by a technological idiot.

Adam

See above. Works fine now.

Ghs

This is a better pic of Jazz.

Ghs

Ahh, a "kinder, gentler GHS!"

The compassionate Anarchist!

Geez, now you are going to move to Texas and not run for President!

Adam

I was in a local pawnship the other day. The owner came up to me and said, "Hey, you're that guy I see all the time walking that cute little dog." Apparently I pass by the owner's home a lot during walks.

True enough. Jazz has gotten used to at least 6 walks per day. (Good exercise for me as well.) I've become something of a fixture in my neighborhood because of that.

Until my neighbors moved two years ago, I used to play a lot chess with Nathan, who was then a grad student in anthroplogy at ISU, on my front porch near a major street. One afternoon, on a rainy day, a photographer came by and asked if he could take picture of us for the Pantagraph. He was going around to find out what people in Bloomington do on rainy days. Shows you how exciting life is in Bloomington.

The picture was published the next day, along with a story -- and for weeks thereafter people would come up to me and say, "Aren't you that chess guy that I saw in the paper?"

After living in LA and SF for nearly 30 years, moving here was like traveling to another planet.

Ghs

[Brant Gaede]

All right! Who is really posting here? George or Jazz?

--Brant

the world wants to know

[George H. Smith]

All right! Who is really posting here? George or Jazz?

--Brant

the world wants to know

It depends. I post the good stuff. Jazz writes the crap.

Now, I'm going to save you smart asses out there the trouble of posting the following reply:

"So Jazz writes most of your posts, does he?"

Ghs

Always one step ahead

[Brant Gaede]

All right! Who is really posting here? George or Jazz?

--Brant

the world wants to know

It depends. I post the good stuff. Jazz writes the crap.

Now, I'm going to save you smart asses out there the trouble of posting the following reply:

"So Jazz writes most of your posts, does he?"

Ghs

Always one step ahead

But one step behind Jazz.

--Brant

[George H. Smith]

All right! Who is really posting here? George or Jazz?

--Brant

the world wants to know

It depends. I post the good stuff. Jazz writes the crap.

Now, I'm going to save you smart asses out there the trouble of posting the following reply:

"So Jazz writes most of your posts, does he?"

Ghs

Always one step ahead

But one step behind Jazz.

--Brant

I trained Jazz how not to post duplicates. Would you like him to train you?

Ghs