The holidays: What's the most interesting/ strangest thing a family member said to you?

[rationalRN]

I went to visit my mother recently and before I walked in the door I was reminded of the clash of our beliefs (not just with her but with her family in general). On the door hung the sayings "God bless everyone" and "Make a positive difference in someone else's life today". My siblings and I are all going to be gathering at our Mother's house with a few other relatives for Xmas and I am wondering what's going to happen this year..

Two years ago, my uncle, a radical Christian was sitting quietly at the table for breakfast. Naturally, I try to make conversation, so I start talking about how lobster would be nice in place of ham on my eggs benedict and about how fun I think it would be to catch them. I say "Do you like lobster Uncle Tony?" He responds with: "Lobsters are bottom feeders and God put them on earth to eat the scraps on the ocean floor. They are therefore unclean in God's eyes and unfit to eat." Ugh.

What have your relatives said to you that clash with your beliefs? Holidays made me think of this because this is when most families come together for the festivities or a reunion of sorts.

[Selene]

Great topic Tiffany:

Our family dinners were a cross between the British Parliament and a back alley polling place on the wrong side of the tracks that every city and town has one or more of.

They were fantastic. Argument was heated, very elevated intellectually and passionate. Sometimes they would be in three or four languages depending on who was there.

Topics ranged from golf to crime to opera to politics, etc.

Being a Randian, I always drew fire.

Additionally, we would have folks from other countries like the Philippines, Japan, Germany, Italy, Cuba and even the Soviet Union.

I can remember being told, very seriously, that I would be executed in his country for saying that I would refuse to do x or y.

Adam

[rationalRN]

Great topic Tiffany:

Our family dinners were a cross between the British Parliament and a back alley polling place on the wrong side of the tracks that every city and town has one or more of.

They were fantastic. Argument was heated, very elevated intellectually and passionate. Sometimes they would be in three or four languages depending on who was there.

Topics ranged from golf to crime to opera to politics, etc.

Being a Randian, I always drew fire.

Additionally, we would have folks from other countries like the Philippines, Japan, Germany, Italy, Cuba and even the Soviet Union.

I can remember being told, very seriously, that I would be executed in his country for saying that I would refuse to do x or y.

Adam

My god Adam! Sounds quite interesting. I wonder if you were the only one who thought those arguments were fantastic though . I see you like to debate. Some of my relatives get genuinely upset when someone doesn't agree with them. My father has left the reunion without telling anyone on several occasions.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I say "Do you like lobster Uncle Tony?" He responds with: "Lobsters are bottom feeders and God put them on earth to eat the scraps on the ocean floor. They are therefore unclean in God's eyes and unfit to eat."

Tiffany,

Here is a smart-ass reply. If your uncle insists that you have to believe in God as he does, use his own standard. Simply say (about the lobster), "That's not what He told me. He told me He loves all His creatures."

After the shock hits, simply say that God speaks to you in your heart when it's quiet. And God told you that He loves your uncle, too.

Then smile.

I doubt there will be much of an answer to that.

I don't suggest doing this if anybody is persuadable near, though, since it will not be your true belief. But for those to whom rational ideas fall on deaf ears, it's a good solid tactic of using their own arguments to stifle intimidation.

Michael

[Xray]

Two years ago, my uncle, a radical Christian was sitting quietly at the table for breakfast. Naturally, I try to make conversation, so I start talking about how lobster would be nice in place of ham on my eggs benedict and about how fun I think it would be to catch them. I say "Do you like lobster Uncle Tony?" He responds with: "Lobsters are bottom feeders and God put them on earth to eat the scraps on the ocean floor. They are therefore unclean in God's eyes and unfit to eat." Ugh.

Here is a smart-ass reply. If your uncle insists that you have to believe in God as he does, use his own standard. Simply say (about the lobster), "That's not what He told me. He told me He loves all His creatures."

But how would the argument "God loves all His creatures" mesh with Tiffany's suggestion to her uncle that it would be fun catching and eating the lobster?

Edited November 22, 2009 by Xray

[Dragonfly]

But how would the argument "God loves all His creatures" mesh with Tiffany's suggestion to her uncle that it would be fun catching and eating the lobster?

Don't you love what you eat? I'm really fond of cows and pigs, they taste great!

[rationalRN]

I say "Do you like lobster Uncle Tony?" He responds with: "Lobsters are bottom feeders and God put them on earth to eat the scraps on the ocean floor. They are therefore unclean in God's eyes and unfit to eat."

Tiffany,

Here is a smart-ass reply. If your uncle insists that you have to believe in God as he does, use his own standard. Simply say (about the lobster), "That's not what He told me. He told me He loves all His creatures."

After the shock hits, simply say that God speaks to you in your heart when it's quiet. And God told you that He loves your uncle, too.

Then smile.

I doubt there will be much of an answer to that.

I don't suggest doing this if anybody is persuadable near, though, since it will not be your true belief. But for those to whom rational ideas fall on deaf ears, it's a good solid tactic of using their own arguments to stifle intimidation.

Michael

Ha! Thanks Michael! I may have to use that tactic this year. And you're right, he is not persuadable at all. That is a pretty funny response because he can't argue with any of it- Whatever I say goes because God is non-specific and supposedly infinite.

[Xray]

Naturally, I try to make conversation, so I start talking about how lobster would be nice in place of ham on my eggs benedict and about how fun I think it would be to catch them.

How is lobster prepared? Is it thrown into boiling water alive?

Edited November 22, 2009 by Xray

[rationalRN]

But how would the argument "God loves all His creatures" mesh with Tiffany's suggestion to her uncle that it would be fun catching and eating the lobster?

Don't you love what you eat? I'm really fond of cows and pigs, they taste great!

Ah yes, I love pigs and cows too, and they certainly are delicious!

Anyone else have funny family stories to share?

[Xray]

But how would the argument "God loves all His creatures" mesh with Tiffany's suggestion to her uncle that it would be fun catching and eating the lobster?

Don't you love what you eat? I'm really fond of cows and pigs, they taste great!

I'm a vegetarian.

[rationalRN]

Naturally, I try to make conversation, so I start talking about how lobster would be nice in place of ham on my eggs benedict and about how fun I think it would be to catch them.

How is lobster prepared? Is it thrown into boiling water alive?

Lobster can be prepared in a multitude of ways. Several I am familiar with are 1) Throwing the critter directly into boiling water, 2) Putting the lobster on the kitchen floor while my cats play with it and then throwing it into boiling water, 3) Putting it in the freezer for 30 min or so until it almost goes into a state of hibernation and then putting it in boiling water (this is probably the kindest method), or 4) Put directly onto grill

Delicious!

[rationalRN]

[quote name='Dragonfly' date='22 November 2009 - 06:31 AM' timestamp='1258893063'

I'm a vegetarian.

Oops, then you won't like my previous post. Do you mind if I ask your reasons for being a vegetarian?

[Xray]

What have your relatives said to you that clash with your beliefs? Holidays made me think of this because this is when most families come together for the festivities or a reunion of sorts.

Since there's always a motley crew assembled in those family reunions, I try to have a good time without going into any discussion about our subjective values.

Since I never expected others to share my values, I'll take any comments coming from them clashing with my beliefs just as what they are: the expression of their values.

[rationalRN]

What have your relatives said to you that clash with your beliefs? Holidays made me think of this because this is when most families come together for the festivities or a reunion of sorts.

Since there's always a motley crew assembled in those family reunions, I try to have a good time without going into any discussion about our subjective values.

Since I never expected others to share my values, I'll take any comments coming from them clashing with my beliefs just as what they are: the expression of their values.

Well said Xray! I like how you mentioned that they are "expressing their values" too. Sometimes I fail to acknowledge that. Discussion and debate amongst the family crowd is one thing, but when they try to force you to go to church or something berserk I don't care for that.

[Xray]

[quote name='Dragonfly' date='22 November 2009 - 06:31 AM' timestamp='1258893063'

I'm a vegetarian.

Oops, then you won't like my previous post. Do you mind if I ask your reasons for being a vegetarian?

It was a process which developed over gradually over the years, influenced by multiple factors, but it was mostly my interest in animal rights issues which finally tipped the scale for making this choice.

But not to be misunderstood: I would never try to cram my personal preferences down others' throats.

Those who argue that eating meat is "objectively immoral" because you have to kill an animal for it (and there do exist fanatic vegetarians who hold that position), I would tell them: "So per you criteria, people who live in the desert and have nothing else to eat are "objectively immoral" because they have to kill animals?"

They will try to backpedal of course by modifying, but any backpedaling will just show that their premise is wrong.

Also, the premise of valuing animal life at any price can be checked when you ask them and "And what do yo if you have lice in your hair?"

Edited November 22, 2009 by Xray

[klnielsen]

I've been fortunate enough to be able to avoid my relatives (both real and pseudo) ever since I became an adult. I've got a few ripe stories to tell from my teenage years, though. For instance, the year that my half sister and her husband were parenting me (I was about fifteen), I got lectured about greed and ego all day. They told me, among other things, that I didn't care about other people because when I didn't wish a Merry Christmas "for everybody in the whole world."

Of course I didn't have a clearly formed belief system at the time, and none of us had heard of Rand, so it was a sense of life thing. The result was that I came to the conclusion that altruists are crackpots.

[Selene]

Spoke Ms. Xray ...Nevermore:

"It was a process which developed over gradually over the years, influenced by multiple factors, but it was mostly my interest in animal rights issues which finally tipped the scale for making this choice.

But not to be misunderstood: I would never try to cram my personal preferences down others' throats.

Those who argue that eating meat is "objectively immoral" because you have to kill an animal for it (and there do exist fanatic vegetarians who hold that position), I would tell them: "So per you criteria, people who live in the desert and have nothing else to eat are "objectively immoral" because they have to kill animals?"

They will try to backpedal of course by modifying, but any backpedaling will just show that their premise is wrong.

Also, the premise of valuing animal life at any price can be checked when you ask them and "And what do yo if you have lice in your hair?"

====================================================================================================

Ms. Xray would never "cram" "anything" "down peoples throats"...maybe there is something to this throat fetish that she has after all...

At any rate, Ms. Xray fails to fully disclose that 1) she is a member of PETA and 2) she contributes to animal rights causes. Now in Ms. Xray's gestalt, there is no connection between donating to PETA and the amorphous "animal rights causes". More on that later.

Ms. Xray, does PETA, as an organization, lobby for laws that will abolish hunting and fishing as a recreational sport? Yea or No?

Adam

Edited November 22, 2009 by Selene

[Dragonfly]

The quoting in post #12 went wrong. I didn't write the "Oops" post!

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Don't you love what you eat? I'm really fond of cows and pigs, they taste great!

Dragonfly,

Of course we love eating animals just as much as they love eating each other.

But to continue with the religious argument, God loves His creatures who are to be eaten (by man, animal, insect, microorganism, etc.) in the same manner He loves His Son, who He set on earth to be crucified. Death is the price we all pay for His love.

That works if you're religious, I suppose. There's certainly a reason for the phrase "leap of faith."

Michael

[rationalRN]

Those who argue that eating meat is "objectively immoral" because you have to kill an animal for it (and there do exist fanatic vegetarians who hold that position), I would tell them: "So per you criteria, people who live in the desert and have nothing else to eat are "objectively immoral" because they have to kill animals?"

They will try to backpedal of course by modifying, but any backpedaling will just show that their premise is wrong.

Also, the premise of valuing animal life at any price can be checked when you ask them and "And what do yo if you have lice in your hair?"

Thanks for sharing Xray! I always find interest in other people's reasoning for their diet preferences.

And way to go on the lice argument. I might use that one but don't worry, I'll give you credit

[rationalRN]

Don't you love what you eat? I'm really fond of cows and pigs, they taste great!

Dragonfly,

Of course we love eating animals just as much as they love eating each other.

Michael

Oh my god, just so you know, when I read your statement "of course we love eating animals just as much as they love eating each other", I almost spit the sip of water I took out of my mouth!!

[anonrobt]

Don't you love what you eat? I'm really fond of cows and pigs, they taste great!

Dragonfly,

Of course we love eating animals just as much as they love eating each other.

Michael

Oh my god, just so you know, when I read your statement "of course we love eating animals just as much as they love eating each other", I almost spit the sip of water I took out of my mouth!!

Heh, heh, heh...;-)

[Selene]

Yes the glass half empty or half full...

sink or swim...

spit or swallow...

all the age old choices. What was that famous quote from Star Trek when Spock falls for that human woman and she says that up until her Spock was a vegetarian!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xrSkiCX3so

Adam

Ted where are you - you would find that Star Trek clip in 20 minutes!

[John Day]

Spirited but good-natured discussions are practically an institution in my family‘s Thanksgiving and Christmas parties. My family isn’t crazy religious but the altruistic tenants of Catholicism has a major impact on their thinking. I’m certainly the most ardent defender of individualism and capitalism in the room.

I always enjoy my conversations with my very altruistic college professor aunt who for instance, supports mandatory national service for those in their early 20s. We both have a respect for each other’s intellect and that allows us to have a more fruitful exchange of ideas. There are some family friends who occasionally show up at these functions who are obnoxious in their leftist views, but I don’t think they’ll be there this year. One didn't like me referring to Cornel West as a "celebrity professor" and me defending Larry Summers actions toward him.

I hope everyone on the board has a fantastic Thanksgiving!

[rationalRN]

Funny video Adam! Go veg.com huh? My favorite part was the comment about how people wearing fur get harassed more than people wearing leather because nobody wants to mess with a biker. Too funny and so true!