Education and its use by O'biwan's Operatives

[Selene]

Folks:

With all the citizen awareness that has been generated by the tea parties, talk radio, Beck's 912 project, the Paulians and the town hall explosion...a new pattern of testimonial evidence is being generating a serious concern about formal propaganda indoctrination by the administration.

<h3 class="post-title entry-title"> Dear Leader to Address Youth On Community Life & Sharing </h3> Dear Leader will address the beloved youth on September 8th.

Hat Tip Jay

In an unprecented move, President Obama will address the nation's youth at their institutions of indoctrination.

The White House even released a list of questions for the youth members to discuss before, during and after Dear Leader's blessed address, such as:

• Why is it important that we listen to the President and other elected officials, like the mayor, senators, members of congress, or the governor? Why is what they say important?

During the Speech:

• As the President speaks, teachers can ask students to write down key ideas or phrases that are important or personally meaningful. Students could use a note-taking graphic organizer such as a Cluster Web, or students could record their thoughts on sticky notes. Younger children can draw pictures and write as appropriate.

As students listen to the speech, they could think about the following:

What is the President trying to tell me?

What is the President asking me to do?

What new ideas and actions is the President challenging me to think about?

• Students can record important parts of the speech where the President is asking them to do something.

• Students might think about: What specific job is he asking me to do? Is he asking anything of anyone else? Teachers? Principals? Parents? The American people?

Related... Obama signed his controversial Youth Brigades Bill in April. The bill increased domestic troop strength from 70,000 to 250,000. In March the Senate voted to allow ACORN funding in the Youth Brigades Bill.

And these two videos. sorry about the cult like one. but the video is real.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=SMxOPvIohcM

If anyone runs across any similar type evidence, visual or written I would appreciate knowing, as I am forming a theory which I hope is wrong.

Adam

[BaalChatzaf]

The Obama Jugend.

Seig Heil!

Something is definitely rotten in the Fatherland.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[anthony]

This reminds me of Ayn Rand's words that Fascism and Socialism are merely two sides of the same coin - I don't remember the quote.

In the U.S.A.?

I am shocked and horrified.

[Reidy]

I don't want to minimize a seriously bad story, but Gateway Pundit doesn't strike me as a sophisticated, high-rent source. The stuff about the pro-Obama curriculum is true; Fox and Kathryn Lopez at NRO have confirmed it. The youth-brigades claims strike me as seriously implausible, though I haven't read the bill (have you?). What it says is no religion and no lobbying while on youth brigades business. Anyone who misses this distinction is not in a position to instruct us on current events.

[Selene]

I don't want to minimize a seriously bad story, but Gateway Pundit doesn't strike me as a sophisticated, high-rent source. The stuff about the pro-Obama curriculum is true; Fox and Kathryn Lopez at NRO have confirmed it. The youth-brigades claims strike me as seriously implausible, though I haven't read the bill (have you?). What it says is no religion and no lobbying while on youth brigades business. Anyone who misses this distinction is not in a position to instruct us on current events.

Reidy:

Agreed as to the sourcing. I would personally withhold both of my children from school on September 8th, 2009 - I would take the day off and stand in front of the school entrance and discuss whether this was a proper use of power.

No, have not read the bill yet, but I will.

Adam

[thomtg]

The PTA organization has been infiltrated compromised. Check out this article.

Parents upset over 'leftist propaganda' video

 http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13249171?_requestid=5883011

It reports a local Parent-Teacher Association organization in Salt Lake City showing a 4-minute video entitle "I Pledge" to elementary-school students with explicit permission from school administrators. The subsequent protest reportedly was over the concrete, trifling details. The school's theme for the academic year still is "service."

The American culture has really changed. There is now a 180-degree inversion in the relationship between the citizenry and its government. Watch the "I Pledge" video, especially at 3:54 into the segment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqcPA1ysSbw

Here is the link at 3:54:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqcPA1ysSbw&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sltrib.com%2Fnews%2Fci_13249171%3F_requestid%3D5883011&feature=player_embedded#t=234

(NOTE FROM MSK: The links are now properly inserted, but for some weird reason the hyperlinking does not work. Instead, the text gets butchered or does not show up. I had to put the links in "code" brackets, which disables the hyperlink, to make them appear at all. So just copy/paste the URL's in your browser and they will take you where the poster wanted.)

[Selene]

The PTA organization has been infiltrated compromised. Check out this article. It reports a local Parent-Teacher Association organization in Salt Lake City showing a 4-minute video entitle "I Pledge" to elementary-school students with explicit permission from school administrators. The subsequent protest reportedly was over the concrete, trifling details. The school's theme for the academic year still is "service."

The American culture has really changed. There is now a 180-degree inversion in the relationship between the citizenry and its government. Watch the "I Pledge" video, especially at 3:54 into the segment.

http://www.youtube.c..._embedded#t=234

Thom T.G.

The link does not work.

[kiaer.ts]

I can't say I am surprised, but I am disgusted. There should be a much louder protest against this than what I have so far seen. Schooling is a private matter, even if the school is publicly funded. Children are there for there own education and no other purpose. They do not belong to the school, the state, Obama or anyone else. I would certainly keep my child out of school that day if I were a parent. What a disgusting creature this president is.

[Selene]

I can't say I am surprised, but I am disgusted. There should be a much louder protest against this than what I have so far seen. Schooling is a private matter, even if the school is publicly funded. Children are there for there own education and no other purpose. They do not belong to the school, the state, Obama or anyone else. I would certainly keep my child out of school that day if I were a parent. What a disgusting creature this president is.

Ted:

Yes, I am surprised that there is not a national regurgitation of what is being rammed down our throats.

Right blasts Obama speech to students

By: Nia-Malika Henderson

September 2, 2009 06:12 PM EST

President Barack Obama's plans for a televised back-to-school address to students next week are drawing fire from some conservatives, who say he's just trying to indoctrinate them to his political beliefs.

In the Sept. 8 speech, Obama will challenge students to work hard, set goals for their education and take responsibility for their learning, Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a letter to principals.

The Education Department is encouraging teachers to create lesson plans around the speech, using materials provided on the department website, that urge students to learn about Obama and other presidents.

"He will also call for a shared responsibility and commitment on the part of students, parents and educators to ensure that every child in every school receives the best education possible so they can compete in the global economy for good jobs and live rewarding and productive lives as American citizens," Duncan said in a press release.

But already, some conservatives are crying foul. The chairman of the Florida Republican Party is condemning Obama's speech as an attempt to "indoctrinate America's children to his socialist agenda."

"The idea that school children across our nation will be forced to watch the President justify his plans for government-run health care, banks, and automobile companies, increasing taxes on those who create jobs, and racking up more debt than any other President, is not only infuriating, but goes against beliefs of the majority of Americans, while bypassing American parents through an invasive abuse of power," Chairman Jim Greer said in a press release.

Added conservative talk show host Tammy Bruce, in a Twitter feed: "Make September 8 Parentally Approved Skip Day. You are your child's moral tutor, not that shady lawyer from Chicago." And conservative author Michelle Malkin said the lesson plans have a "heavy activist bent."

Texas school districts are discussing whether the president's speech will be shown — some districts are leaving it up to individual teachers with an opt out parents who don't want their children to view the speech, according to the Houston Chronicle.

In his letter to principals, Duncan said viewing of the speech is encouraged, not mandatory. It's the first time a president has ever given a speech addressed directly to students.

Adam

[kiaer.ts]

I don't give a fish if he's indoctrinating them or if he's handing out winning lottery numbers. He has no business treating school children as a captive audience. Their time is their own, not his to command.

[Selene]

Tammy has had an interesting trek through society. She used to be in the upper echelon and inner circle of the National Organization of Women. She was, by her own statement, an extremely left wing gender feminist. She was also a lesbian.

There came a time when she became a libertarian which is where she is now. I would not define her as a conservative. http://tammybruce.com/

"Added conservative talk show host Tammy Bruce, in a Twitter feed: 'Make September 8 Parentally Approved Skip Day. You are your child's moral tutor, not that shady lawyer from Chicago.' And conservative author Michelle Malkin said the lesson plans have a 'heavy activist bent.'"

Biography

"Tammy Bruce is an openly gay, pro-choice, gun owning, pro-death penalty, authentic feminist. A lifelong Democrat, in 1992 she worked to help elect Senators Feinstein and Boxer, and aided the Clinton for President campaign, before we knew he was a sexual compulsive and “The Death of Right and Wrong,”also for Random House (April 2003), addresses the rise of moral relativism in society and quickly became a New York Times best seller. Ms. Bruce’s latest work,“The New American Revolution,” was published by Harper Collins/Morrow in November 2005. The paperback edition was released November 2006. She is currently working on her fourth book, with a subject matter yet to be revealed.

A native of Los Angeles, Ms. Bruce holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Political Science from the University of Southern California. She also notes her interest in politics and individual liberty was sparked during her childhood in part because of the work of authorsRay Bradbury and George Orwell, both of whom remain her favorite writers. Ms. Bruce lives in Los Angeles with Snoopy the Cat, Snoopy’s best friend Sydney the Dog, and puts up with a raccoon she has named Rocky, who refuses to leave her outside patio."

I find her radio voice discordant to my ear, so I do not listen to her much.

Adam

[Christopher]

Obama kids music video: At least armageddon comes in a cute little package.

[thezachcooper]

Education, especially public education, is subject to the views and pretenses of elected officials and their friends, all the time. Violent activists like Bill Ayers are now "elementary education theorists" (Wikipedia).

When I was in fifth grade, I had a textbook full of essays and short stories. One of these little essays told me that nearly every hamburger I ate meant a rainforest somewhere as being demolished and countless cute animals were going homeless. I distinctly remember a full-page picture within this section of the book: of a hamburger with a speech bubble extending out of it wherein a scene of mass deforestation was illustrated.

Young children are incredibly impressionable, and the classroom is sadly the place where they start swallowing little bits of ideology without an opposing viewpoint. Objectivity makes a good education, but alternative views seldom find their way into the strongholds of schools, lest future voters find they agree with the other side.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Cooper

[Chris Grieb]

Tammy has had an interesting trek through society. She used to be in the upper echelon and inner circle of the National Organization of Women. She was, by her own statement, an extremely left wing gender feminist. She was also a lesbian.

There came a time when she became a libertarian which is where she is now. I would not define her as a conservative. http://tammybruce.com/

"Added conservative talk show host Tammy Bruce, in a Twitter feed: 'Make September 8 Parentally Approved Skip Day. You are your child's moral tutor, not that shady lawyer from Chicago.' And conservative author Michelle Malkin said the lesson plans have a 'heavy activist bent.'"

Biography

"Tammy Bruce is an openly gay, pro-choice, gun owning, pro-death penalty, authentic feminist. A lifelong Democrat, in 1992 she worked to help elect Senators Feinstein and Boxer, and aided the Clinton for President campaign, before we knew he was a sexual compulsive and A “The Death of Right and Wrong,”also for Random House (April 2003), addresses the rise of moral relativism in society and quickly became a New York Times best seller. Ms. Bruce’s latest work,“The New American Revolution,” was published by Harper Collins/Morrow in November 2005. The paperback edition was released November 2006. She is currently working on her fourth book, with a subject matter yet to be revealed.

A native of Los Angeles, Ms. Bruce holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Political Science from the University of Southern California. She also notes her interest in politics and individual liberty was sparked during her childhood in part because of the work of authorsRay Bradbury and George Orwell, both of whom remain her favorite writers. Ms. Bruce lives in Los Angeles with Snoopy the Cat, Snoopy’s best friend Sydney the Dog, and puts up with a raccoon she has named Rocky, who refuses to leave her outside patio."

I find her radio voice discordant to my ear, so I do not listen to her much.

Adam

Ms Bruce did an In Depth on Book TV several months back. My memory is she was very good. She is definitely a different voice on talk radio.

Adam: I found her voice pleasant on the In Depth.

[Chris Grieb]

Education, especially public education, is subject to the views and pretenses of elected officials and their friends, all the time. Violent activists like Bill Ayers are now "elementary education theorists" (Wikipedia).

When I was in fifth grade, I had a textbook full of essays and short stories. One of these little essays told me that nearly every hamburger I ate meant a rain forest somewhere as being demolished and countless cute animals were going homeless. I distinctly remember a full-page picture within this section of the book: of a hamburger with a speech bubble extending out of it wherein a scene of mass deforestation was illustrated.

Young children are incredibly impressionable, and the classroom is sadly the place where they start swallowing little bits of ideology without an opposing viewpoint. Objectivity makes a good education, but alternative views seldom find their way into the strongholds of schools, lest future voters find they agree with the other side.

Cooper; When I was in the fourth or fifth grade my grandmother became very angry over a science text book which depicted the pioneers of whom she was a daughter of as destroying the beautiful wilderness in the Northwest. This was in the 50ths so it has been going on for a while.

Your story is very bad.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Chris Grieb

[Selene]

Marxist re-propagandizing Tuesday's propaganda message because their fingers got a boo boo from the cookie jar lid being slammed on them!

Originally published 08:03 p.m., September 2, 2009, updated 11:58 p.m., September 2, 2009

WH withdraws call for students to 'help' Obama

UPDATED:

President Obama's plan to inspire the nation's schoolchildren with a video address next week erupted into controversy Wednesday, forcing the White House to pull out its eraser and rewrite a government recommendation that teachers nationwide assign students a paper on how to "help the president."

Presidential aides acknowledged the White House helped the U.S. Education Department craft the proposal, which immediately was met by fierce criticism from Republicans and conservative organizations who accused Mr. Obama of trying to politicize the education system.

White House aides said the language was an honest misunderstanding in what was supposed to be a inspirational, pro-education message to America's youths.

Among the activities the government initially suggested for prekindergarten to sixth-grade students: that they " write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president."

Another task recommended for students immediately after listening to the speech: to engage in a discussion about what "the president wants us to do."

The novel curriculum plan brought sharp criticism from conservatives, including some who complained that classrooms were being used to spread political propaganda.

In response, the White House last night confirmed they were revising the lesson plan that was distributed last week by the U.S. Department of Education.

"We're clarifying that language," White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said.

By Wednesday evening, the sentence asking children to think about how they can "help the president" had been replaced.

The rewritten line said students should "write letters to themselves about how they can achieve their short-term and long-term education goals.

These would be collected and redistributed at an appropriate later date by the teacher to make students accountable to their goals."

Mr. Vietor said the reaction to the lesson plan may not have been so strong had the curriculum been circulated after people heard the speech, which he said does not mention any political issues and does not stray from a clear message encouraging children to excel and stay in school.

The speech is "about the value of education and the importance of staying in school as part of his effort to dramatically cut the dropout rate. It's not a policy speech," Mr. Vietor said.

But the revisions did not appear in time to head off the rapid-fire reaction that spread all day on conservative-oriented talk radio and Web sites. Critics of the president argued that some of the messages included in the " menu of classroom activities" strayed dangerously close to politicizing the classroom.

"While I support educating our children to respect both the office of the American president and the value of community service, I do not support using our children as tools to spread liberal propaganda," said Jim Greer, chairman of the Florida Republican Party.

The conservative radio host Dana Loesch even urged parents to keep their children home on Tuesday, the day Mr. Obama's speech is schedule to air.

Not everyone was outraged by the president's decision to send a videotaped message to America's schoolchildren something President George H.W. Bush did 18 years ago, though without the accompanying homework.

"I can't think of anything less partisan than this," said Mo Elleithee, a Democratic strategist. "It's admirable that President Obama would challenge our schoolchildren to do their best, and it's the kind of message that most level-headed Americans can easily get behind."

Mr. Elleithee called the moral outrage " beyond silly" and said it was " the kind of hyper-partisanship that people so soundly rejected last November."

Longtime political analyst Norman Ornstein said he viewed the strong reaction to Mr. Obama's speech as a sign of the coarsening of American politics.

"The fact that a standard issue speech by a president, with a good, common sense, even conservative message about education, school, hard work and perseverance, is being hit hard by the right tells us how dysfunctional our politics are, how shrill the discourse is getting from the president's foes, and how some people are blinded from common sense by their visceral hatred for Obama and his side of the aisle," Mr. Orenstein said.

The idea of adding a lesson plan to the package of materials being sent to schoolteachers was hatched during meetings between the White House and officials from the Department of Education.

The lessons themselves were developed by educators, White House officials said. But some of the assignments, they later conceded, may appear to be inartfully worded without also knowing the context of the speech.

"Does the speech make you want to do anything?" is one suggested question for the discussion. " Are we able to do what the president is asking of us?"

The packet of activities was sent out electronically with an Aug. 26 electronic letter from U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan. Mr. Duncan encourages school administrators to air the presidential broadcast, which was timed to coincide with the start of school for most of the country.

"The president will challenge students to work hard, set educational goals, and take responsibility for their learning," Mr. Duncan says in his letter.

Of the activities, Mr. Duncan added: "These are ideas developed by and for teachers to help engage students and stimulate discussion on the importance of education in their lives."

The amazing pieces of spin in this "news" article is more than enough to make one morally and intellectually nauseous.

The global incompetence of this executive is breathtakingly dangerous to our country.

Adam

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I fixed the links in Thom's post above, but something really, really fishy is going on with the hyperlinks. Strange that this does not happen with other hyperlinks...

Michael

[anthony]

Adam,

I see this as 'creeping authoritarianism'; or 'galloping paternalism.'

I'm glad it's getting strong opposition.

Tony

[Selene]

Adam,

I see this as 'creeping authoritarianism'; or 'galloping paternalism.'

I'm glad it's getting strong opposition.

Tony

Tony:

It has actually been an amazing 60 days here in America. Folks are actually waking up from the slumber. This clown has absolutely no executive skills, but he does

have a marxist agenda.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/august_2009/57_would_like_to_replace_entire_congress

This is getting to be an extremely dangerous period for my country. I cannot hide the fact that I am truly worried, but it seems like that American individualist backbone is

still there. I guess when you eviscerate their investments, openly display complete disdain for constituents and overreach in a critical areas, like their health, children and their

senior population, even us Americans can and will rise up once again and put our lives, our property and our sacred honor on the line for freedom.

Adam

[anthony]

You, or anyone else here, Adam, would have every right to ask what the hell my interest and involvement in your nation is -- considering where I live.

South Africa is so far beyond the pale, that any thoughtful citizen has been beaten into submission. Or left the country.

As an example (just a tiny one) a gentleman by the name of 'Blade' Nzimande has been given the Education portfolio. Blade is the leader of the small but noisily influential S.A. Communist Party, and as reward for past services during the 'struggle', is now a Cabinet Minister.

He recently vented in the media about 'greed', and castigated the nation for not being selfless enough.

He has just hit the papers again for ordering himself, at taxpayers expense, a BMW 7, at around $130,000.

This man now controls our children's minds.

So... the gulf between our countries is still vast, but any 'slippage' I observe over there in the U.S. scares me. Excuse my gloom.

Tony

[Selene]

You, or anyone else here, Adam, would have every right to ask what the hell my interest and involvement in your nation is -- considering where I live.

South Africa is so far beyond the pale, that any thoughtful citizen has been beaten into submission. Or left the country.

As an example (just a tiny one) a gentleman by the name of 'Blade' Nzimande has been given the Education portfolio. Blade is the leader of the small but noisily influential S.A. Communist Party, and as reward for past services during the 'struggle', is now a Cabinet Minister.

He recently vented in the media about 'greed', and castigated the nation for not being selfless enough.

He has just hit the papers again for ordering himself, at taxpayers expense, a BMW 7, at around $130,000.

This man now controls our children's minds.

So... the gulf between our countries is still vast, but any 'slippage' I observe over there in the U.S. scares me. Excuse my gloom.

Tony

Toni:

Not at all. I have always believed that we are the beacon to the world. I have, because of my upbringing, met folks from all over the world who have emigrated to the US.

Our pro freedom, pro individual presence on the planet is, I believe, universal to all men. Our emigres have understood what we are about.

It is our own establishment which has forgotten freedom in this orgy of diversity which has us all feeding out of the common polluted political public trough on too many issues.

I will make you an honorary OL citizen of America.

You know I have a fascination with South Africa and its history and current administration which does not look to good from here. By the way this program is being pushed here by O'biwan, the less than presidential occupant of the White House.

<h1 class="art_head">South Africa Is Seen to Lag in H.I.V. Fight

</h1> CELIA W. DUGGER

Published: Monday, July 20, 2009 at 5:17 a.m.

Last Modified: Monday, July 20, 2009 at 5:17 a.m. ORANGE FARM, South Africa — Young men have flocked by the thousands to this clinic for circumcisions, the only one of its kind in South Africa. Each of them lies down on one of seven closely spaced surgical tables, his privacy shielded only by a green curtain.

Click to enlarge Even without government involvement, demand for circumcision has surged over the last year in Orange Farm, South Africa.

Buy photo Benedicte Kurzen/VII Mentor, for The New York Time

“I’ve done 53 in a seven-hour day, me, myself, personally,” said Dr. Dino Rech, who helped design the highly efficient surgical assembly line at this French-financed clinic for cutting off foreskins.

Circumcision has been proven to reduce a man’s risk of contracting H.I.V. by more than half. Yet two years after the World Health Organization recommended the surgery, the government here still does not provide it to help fight the disease or educate the public about its benefits.

Some other African nations are championing the procedure and bringing it to thousands. But in South Africa, the powerhouse country at the heart of the epidemic, the government has been notably silent, despite the withering international criticism the country has endured for its previous foot-dragging in fighting and treating AIDS.

“Countries around us with fewer resources, both human and financial, are able to achieve more,” said Dr. Quarraisha Abdool Karim, the first director of South Africa’s national AIDS program in the mid-1990s under President Nelson Mandela. “I wish I understood why South Africa, which has an enviable amount of resources, is not able to respond to the epidemic the way Botswana and Kenya have.”

Even without government involvement, demand for the surgery, performed free under local anesthetic, has surged over the last year here at the Orange Farm clinic. The men are counseled to continue using condoms since circumcision provides partial, though substantial protection.

Men waited nervously one recent chilly morning for their turn. Most were hoping the procedure would help them stay healthy here in the nation with more H.I.V.-positive people than any other.

But some said they were also drawn by a surprising, if powerful, motivation: They had heard from recently circumcised friends that it makes for better sex. You last longer, they said. Your lovers think you’re cleaner and more exciting in bed.

“My girlfriend was nagging me about this,” said Shane Koapeng, 24. “So I was like, ‘O.K., let me do it.’ ”

As new H.I.V. infections have continued to outpace efforts to treat the sick in Africa, there is growing concern about the ballooning costs of treatment for an ever-expanding number of patients who need medicines for the rest of their lives. Almost two million people were newly infected in 2007 in sub-Saharan Africa, bringing the total of those living with H.I.V. in the region to 22 million, according to United Nations estimates.

The major international donors to AIDS programs, including the United States and the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, are ready to pour money into male circumcision, but the countries have to be ready to accept the help.

“You can’t impose it from the outside, particularly such a sensitive intervention,” said the Global Fund’s executive director, Dr. Michel Kazatchkine.

Public health doctors agree that circumcising millions of men will be no simple task. Africa has a severe shortage of doctors and nurses, and circumcision is potentially a political and cultural minefield in countries where some ethnic groups practice it but others do not.

Still, some countries are showing it can be done. In Botswana, circumcision was largely stopped in the late 19th and early 20th centuries by British colonial-era administrators and Christian missionaries.

But Festus Mogae, who was president from 1998 to 2008, provided a critical endorsement of male circumcision just before he stepped down.

Over the past year, the government has trained medical teams to do circumcisions in all its public hospitals and aims by 2016 to have circumcised 470,000 males from infancy to age 49, which is 80 percent of the total number in that group.

Public awareness is being raised through advertisements on radio and television. Billboards have sprouted across the country featuring a star of the national youth soccer team.

“Men have started to flock to the hospitals,” said Dr. Khumo Seipone, director of H.I.V./AIDS prevention and care in Botswana’s Ministry of Health.

In Kenya, where the Luo do not generally practice circumcision, Prime Minister Raila Odinga, himself a Luo, encouraged the procedure and lobbied elders. The H.I.V. infection rate among Luo men is more than triple that of Kenyan men generally — 17.5 percent versus 5.6 percent.

“Anything that could help save lives needs to be tried,” Mr. Odinga said, adding that he had been circumcised.

So far, more than 20,000 men in Kenya have been circumcised in hospitals, dispensaries, village schools, social halls and tents. Teams of doctors, nurses and counselors have even taken boats to islands in Lake Victoria to circumcise Luo fishermen.

“If the Luo Council of Elders and local politicians had been against it, the government would not have dared endorse circumcision,” said Robert Bailey, the principal investigator on the Kenya male circumcision clinical trial.

In sharp contrast, male circumcision has no political champion here in South Africa, where the largest ethnic group, the Zulus, have generally not practiced it since the early 19th century, when it was abandoned due to protracted warfare, according to Daniel Halperin, an epidemiologist and medical anthropologist at Harvard University.

Thabo Masebe, a spokesman for President Jacob Zuma, said the Health Ministry must first set a policy on circumcision before Mr. Zuma, who took office in April, can take a position. Mr. Zuma is Zulu. The province of KwaZulu-Natal, the Zulu heartland, has the highest adult H.I.V. prevalence rate in the country, 39 percent, according to Unaids.

“The president gets involved when decisions are made,” Mr. Masebe said. “If the president spoke now, and when the time comes to make a policy, a different decision is taken, it wouldn’t sound good.”

The new health minister, Aaron Motsoaledi, spoke at length about AIDS in a recent speech to Parliament but made no mention of male circumcision. Dr. Yogan Pillay, a senior official at the National Department of Health, said a policy was being drafted and would be put forward for discussion by the end of the month.

In March 2007, the World Health Organization concluded from rigorous clinical trials in Kenya, Uganda and here in Orange Farm township that male circumcision reduced female-to-male H.I.V. transmission by about 60 percent.

“This is an important landmark in the history of H.I.V. prevention,” the W.H.O. said at the time.

That same year, a committee of scientists, advocates and others advising the South African government recommended offering circumcisions as quickly as possible, perhaps by contracting with private doctors while public health workers were trained. Instead, the government set up a task force to study the issue, said Dr. Abdool Karim, a committee member.

The surgical methods developed in Orange Farm are now being copied in the region. Population Services International, which provides counseling at the Orange Farm clinic, is putting them into practice in Zimbabwe in collaboration with the Health Ministry there. It also received $50 million from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to work with the governments of Zambia and Swaziland in the hope of circumcising some 650,000 men in those two countries.

South Africa has made strides in recent years, and now provides antiretroviral therapy to more people with AIDS than any other developing country.

But this is not the first time its policies have lagged behind. The country delayed for years providing antiretroviral medicines to treat AIDS under its former president, Thabo Mbeki, who denied the scientific consensus about the viral cause of the disease. Harvard researchers estimated that the government would have prevented the premature deaths of 330,000 South Africans earlier in the decade if it had provided the drugs.

“South Africa has no shortage of scientists,” said Olive Shisana, chief executive officer of South Africa’s government-financed Human Sciences Research Council. “We have a shortage of people willing to take the evidence that exists and use it for public health.”

[kiaer.ts]

The Administration's backtracking on this is too little too late. The problem is not the content of the message itself. The problem is the presumption that the president has any right at all to treat students as a captive audience. School is not a branch of the federal government. The president is not the educator in chief. Moderate republicans like Bill Sammon, as usual, are saying it's okay now that he has changed his message. Sorry, the problem is that he thinks he has the right to make the address in the first place.

[thomtg]

The Administration's backtracking on this is too little too late. The problem is not the content of the message itself. The problem is the presumption that the president has any right at all to treat students as a captive audience. School is not a branch of the federal government. The president is not the educator in chief. Moderate republicans like Bill Sammon, as usual, are saying it's okay now that he has changed his message. Sorry, the problem is that he thinks he has the right to make the address in the first place.

It is another example of fighting over the details while conceding the principle.

[Brant Gaede]

The Administration's backtracking on this is too little too late. The problem is not the content of the message itself. The problem is the presumption that the president has any right at all to treat students as a captive audience. School is not a branch of the federal government. The president is not the educator in chief. Moderate republicans like Bill Sammon, as usual, are saying it's okay now that he has changed his message. Sorry, the problem is that he thinks he has the right to make the address in the first place.

It is another example of fighting over the details while conceding the principle.

Serving Obama. Retch!

--Brant

[jeffrey smith]

post deleted. (what I meant to say sounded silly once it became verbalized.)

Edited September 4, 2009 by jeffrey smith