Objectivist Fiction

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Michelle,

For specifically Objectivist fiction, i.e., fiction written by Objectivists with an Objectivist slant, but not written by Ayn Rand, on the ARI side, Andrew Bernstein wrote a novel about a high-school basketball player, Heart of a Pagan. I haven't read it, but what I have read about it indicates that he relied heavily on Greek mythology, similar to what Rand did in Atlas Shrugged.

There's an ARI employee named David Gulbraa (see here and scroll down) who has written several novels. From what I was able to uncover on a quick search, he wrote The Silver Hammer, Tales of the Mall Masters, and The Serum. They are apparently out of print since I only saw ads for used books.

Incidentally, here is a 2004 review from Noodlefood blasting both authors. Back then the site owner appeared sympathetic to the blasting. I wonder if her opinion has since changed. (Heh.)

Edward Cline has written a 6-part series of novels set in the American colonial period called Sparrowhawk. I haven't read them either. I hope he is a better fiction writer than essayist (he is a quintessential Randroid).

Moving away from ARI, John Enright wrote Unholy Quest and the people who read it seem to like it. It is on my to-read list. Interestingly enough, while looking this up, I came across a play by John that will be put on here in Chicago in June. I'm glad I saw this. Here the information on the play: Ready Or Not.

On Lulu (a print on demand service), you might find something in the category of: Objectivist fiction, although from what I saw from a skim, that is a very mixed bag.

I am sure there is more, but I am out of time to research it.

EDIT (as I remember or discover):

Noble Vision by Gen LaGreca. I read this one and it is quite good. Not great, but very good.

Michael

[Reidy]

In #6 you mention that Existentialism, like Objectivism, first came to the public in the form of fiction. How many Existentialist novels or plays are still around? Of those, how many do we read or watch for their literary interest and not just for their ideas? No Exit and The Stranger come to mind, and that's about it. If you start out intending a literary work as a propaganda vehicle the result will almost always be bad literature.

[Michelle]

In #6 you mention that Existentialism, like Objectivism, first came to the public in the form of fiction. How many Existentialist novels or plays are still around? Of those, how many do we read or watch for their literary interest and not just for their ideas? No Exit and The Stranger come to mind, and that's about it. If you start out intending a literary work as a propaganda vehicle the result will almost always be bad literature.

Just because an author has a certain worldview and portrays it in his writings does not make him a propagandist. Would you call The Fountainhead propaganda? Would you call Dostoyevsky's novels propaganda? Would you call Les Miz propaganda? Would you call the writings of Heinlein propaganda (Puppet Master aside...)? These are all works who's settings, characters, and themes reflect the author's worldview.

Anyhow, if you include absurdism, many of Samuel Beckett's plays are still popular. As is Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead by Tom Stoppard. The novels of Walker Percy. Dostoyevsky's work. Milan Kundera's novels. Sartre's Nausea. Camus' The Plague. Hell, you could probably even include Franz Kafka's stuff under this general heading.

[Michelle]

Michelle,

For specifically Objectivist fiction, i.e., fiction written by Objectivists with an Objectivist slant, but not written by Ayn Rand, on the ARI side, Andrew Bernstein wrote a novel about a high-school basketball player, Heart of a Pagan. I haven't read it, but what I have read about it indicates that he relied heavily on Greek mythology, similar to what Rand did in Atlas Shrugged.

There's an ARI employee named David Gulbraa (see here and scroll down) who has written several novels. From what I was able to uncover on a quick search, he wrote The Silver Hammer, Tales of the Mall Masters, and The Serum. They are apparently out of print since I only saw ads for used books.

Incidentally, here is a 2004 review from Noodlefood blasting both authors. Back then the site owner appeared sympathetic to the blasting. I wonder if her opinion has since changed. (Heh.)

Edward Cline has written a 6-part series of novels set in the American colonial period called Sparrowhawk. I haven't read them either. I hope he is a better fiction writer than essayist (he is a quintessential Randroid).

Moving away from ARI, John Enright wrote Unholy Quest and the people who read it seem to like it. It is on my to-read list. Interestingly enough, while looking this up, I came across a play by John that will be put on here in Chicago in June. I'm glad I saw this. Here the information on the play: Ready Or Not.

On Lulu (a print on demand service), you might find something in the category of: Objectivist fiction, although from what I saw from a skim, that is a very mixed bag.

I am sure there is more, but I am out of time to research it.

EDIT (as I remember or discover):

Noble Vision by Gen LaGreca. I read this one and it is quite good. Not great, but very good.

Michael

Thanks!

[kiaer.ts]

Ted,

I have a long answer to that, but I don't have time to give it. The short version is that one of my main problems with internalizing a new poem is lack of context and/or backstory when I first read it. My mind strongly seeks these things, and one is rarely given. But that's not bad. That just comes with the territory. I would even go so far as to say when the context and/or backstory is immediately clear to a new reader, the poem is usually not very good.

To "get" a poem, I need to read it with full focus at least a dozen times, at which point I usually start savoring what I call the whispering between the lines. That takes a special kind of focus and like all skills, you need to warm up to do it right. This warm-up period is where I collide with poets who constantly use "poetic" language and grammatical inversions just so they can rhyme. (And that is Yeats to a tee.) My mind initially rebels at the lack of meaning from no context and/or backstory and the need to construct and draw meaning from awkward grammar and vocabulary. Once I push through that and get to the point where the poem not only makes cognitive sense, but I can hear the whispering between the lines, great poems have greatly enriched my life.

Leave it to say (for now) that I write poetry and am quite good at it. I fear I will not have time to become great at it in my lifetime because I am devoting the hours needed to become great to other activities. But should, one day, I decide to drop everything and set writing poetry as one of my life's main purposes, Yeats would definitely be one of the poets I would study. I would drink deeply from that well.

I will write more about this later as it is an important subject.

btw - I fully agree with your high regard of Shakespeare. I have no idea what was wrong with Rand in her opinion of him. Maybe if he had been Russian, she would have liked him better.

Michael

So basically you are saying poetry is hard to get, but rewarding if you invest the effort?

I suspect that Rand's disdain for Shakespeare was in large part a language issue. Even for most native English speakers, he writes in a foreign tongue. Yes, the fatalism in his plots can be exasperating. I never liked Romeo and Juliet. I kept yelling at the characters for being sooo stupid. The missed letter, the drug wearing off only after she has killed herself. Please. But the language alone is simply incredible, the plots atre compelling even if contrived. And not every plot is as bad as that in Romeo and Juliet.

It wasn't until after I had studied Latin (which I did at 30) that I finally got Shakespeare. My brain was finally primed to comprehend the free word order Shakesspear uses. I had never been able to comprehend more than just unintegrated words until that point, I could not grasp the sentences when hearing a play performed. I wathced Ian McKellen's Richard III and it all clicked. I wonder if Rand could really have done that, not being a native speaker of English. Perhaps Barabara could comment on this.

[anonrobt]

For poetry, Robert Frost isn't so bad, and the same with Crane...

Sparrowhawk is a six part developmental novel, and in that context is well worth reading, getting much the 'flavor' of the pre-Revolutionary days in terms of how British and American folk thought and shifted in their thinking...

Cline also wrote two crime novels - they're ok, interesting, but not the greatest of mysteries...

Smith's books are all worth reading - in going thru them from The Watcher to her last, it is interesting to see her development as a writer, as the first was in some ways a take-off of Rand's Think Twice, and her last was more Hugoesque...

Gulbraa's The Mall Masters is a very interesting book, covering wide interpretations of a libertarian society set across the river from an authoritarian society much like parts of present America... his other works, like The Serum, are much less in quality and imagination...

Holzer's novels I found intriguing, and was surprised to see Sally Fields actually acting in the Eye for an Eye movie version, tho of course there're differences between the novel and the movie...

I like Shelley Reuben's novels, two dealing with crime from an arson solving mindset - very informative...

Alexandra York has written a novel, Crosspoints, and she is Rand influenced...

And there is an odd novel called Sewer, Gas, and Electric, which is in an odd manner involved with Randian thought, which you might find of interest... by Matt Ruff...

If further interested, The New Ayn Rand Companion, by Mimi Gladstein, has listing of many Rand influenced writers in its rear...

Edited May 28, 2009 by anonrobt

[tjohnson]

Amen on the Heinlein. But he barely winked in acknowledging her presence....

Wow, that's weird, a lot of people into general semantics read Heinlein who supposedly studied gs. A.E.Van Vogt is my all time favorite Sci Fi writer. The World of Null-A (non-aristotelian) series.

[Judith]

Michael's list and anonrobt's list included just about all of the ones I was thinking about in my earlier post when I said that there had been a number of books advertised in publications such as "The New Individualist". Go to it and see if you like them better than I did...

Judith

[Peter]

One aspect of anarchism that is appealing at least on a superficial level, is defending oneself. The author Lee Child is not an anarchist but he is a Romantic Realist.

Most people say they would take the law into their own hands if no law was available. For example, if they were lost on a desert island they would take care of themselves, but would defer to legal authorities if protection and recourse were available. I agree that it is moral to defend oneself when the law is not around. Self preservation necessitates that we counter violence to ourselves, our family or to our property in an emergency, even if it means we personally harm the wrong doer. I also think it is moral to defend a stranger from violence, in an emergency.

Some people have mentioned a preference for justice in the style of The Old West, as part of the right to bear arms. An excellent writer who depicts a person very ready, willing, and able to take the law into his own hands, is Lee Child.

Lee Child also thinks it is moral to counter violence to a stranger, in an emergency, but what makes his hero, Jack Reacher so compelling is the difference between him and an average citizen. All of us might stop a bullying child from harming another child. An average citizen might stop an injustice to another if he felt no threat to himself, but what if there were a threat to you if you interfered? How far would you go to defend yourself or someone else if you might be harmed? Isn’t it personal fear that stops us from acting in an emergency, rather than our belief in putting the use of force into the hands of legitimate authority? How brave are you?

The hero, in all of Child’s books, is a former military policeman, who sees no necessity in calling 911. His father was a career officer in the Army and his older brother became a Secret Service Agent in charge of anti-counterfeiting. In a style reminiscent of Donald Hamilton, Mickey Spillane, and Ian Fleming, Child’s hero is always morally right before he acts.

Child brings up some other issues that dramatize those difficult gray areas between justice, the law and vengeance. His hero is in the romantic tradition of the old west but the books are set in modern times. I highly recommend them all.

Semper cogitans fidele,

Peter Taylor

[anonrobt]

Michael's list and anonrobt's list included just about all of the ones I was thinking about in my earlier post when I said that there had been a number of books advertised in publications such as "The New Individualist". Go to it and see if you like them better than I did...

Judith

I should add there is one other, a book of poetry by John Paul Sherman [bridgeberg Books]

called - Sing Me a Sky... John was an Objectivist and his poems [and there are loads more than was published] are, as far as I know [including Enright], the best 'Objectivist' poetry written...

[Philip Coates]

> Leonard Peikoff has a lecture on poetry he likes which I found disappointing. [Chris]

Chris, can you share the list of poems Peikoff liked?

[Chris Grieb]

> Leonard Peikoff has a lecture on poetry he likes which I found disappointing. [Chris]

Chris, can you share the list of poems Peikoff liked?

The "Sail On" poem about Columbus and some Ogden Nash are all I remember at this moment. He had disdain for e e cummings. I would have to listen to the lecture again. I must add that I like Ogden Nash but I can't remember Keats or Browning being talked about. My opinion of Lenny did increase after hearing this lecture.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Chris Grieb

[Rich Engle]

Objectivist fiction:

Her tall, thrusting legs beat a pattern on the pristine, well-mortared sidewalk, seemingly in tune with the tall, nearly phallically-thrusting skyscrapers....they had a mild (yet knowingly-engineered) attribute of listing one-half-inch per second per mph of wind, starting at 7 mph. Do the math.

Soon, her tallingness and thrustingness would go below, to the innards: the underground railway station, where her thighs would beat a solemn, somber rhythm to the, well, ~rhythms~ of the turning wheels, creating a sweet, underground symphony.

rde

running to purge.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Rich Engle

[Peter]

Rich Engle wrote but then I mangled, as a homage:

Who is John Galt?

Her tall, thrusting legs beat a pattern on the pristine,

well-mortared sidewalk, seemingly in tune with the tall,

clearly phallically-thrusting skyscrapers,

that had a mild (yet knowingly-engineered) attribute of swaying

one-half-inch per second per pound of wind,

slipping and sliding to evolution's song.

Soon, her tallness and thrusting would go below,

to the core being: below the street level railway,

where her thighs would beat to the solemn, somber,

~rhythms~ of the turning wheels, creating a sweet, underground symphony.

end quote

You know, if you worked on it, like I did when I dropped a phrase, added a few words, and rearranged it, that really could be good, erotic poetry.

Wow. You could read that at a beatnik coffee house, and they would snap their fingers in approval.

In gratitude,

ee cummings

[Philip Coates]

> The "Sail On" poem about Columbus and some Ogden Nash are all I remember at this moment. [Chris]

Nothing by Tennyson?

Kipling?

Dylan Thomas?

Elizabeth Barrett Browning?

Longfellow?

Robert Service?

Badger Clark?

Wordsworth?

...I'd be amazed if he didn't include ANY of the classic great world-famous poets and some of their poems ????

Edited January 17, 2010 by Philip Coates

[Chris Grieb]

> The "Sail On" poem about Columbus and some Ogden Nash are all I remember at this moment. [Chris]

Nothing by Tennyson?

Kipling?

Dylan Thomas?

Elizabeth Barrett Browning?

Longfellow?

Robert Service?

Badger Clark?

Wordsworth?

...I'd be amazed if he didn't include ANY of the classic great world-famous poets and some of their poems ????

Phil; I haven't listened for a while. I would rather have a long dental appointment than listen to Peikoff. He may have had some Robert W. Service.

[Peter]

Chris Grieb wrote:

Phil; I haven't listened for a while. I would rather have a long dental appointment than listen to Peikoff. He may have had some Robert W. Service.

end quote

My memory is jogged. When I was part of an Objectivist Club at UVA in 1967, The Shooting of Dan Mcgrew, by Robert Service was read - I believe by John Ridpath. It is quite good, but a bit long. I would not doubt that Robert Service was well liked by an Objectivst.

I recently compared John to one Rand’s stoic, humorless characters and then felt bad about it and wrote the following apology.

I sincerely apologize to John Ridpath. I should not have “psychologized” him by comparing him to a fictional character. He was an inspiring person to meet and he deserves better.

I told another story about John years ago and I will try to repeat it. My brother Robert, Willard R. Grace III, and I had an apartment on Madison Lane just off the Rotunda at the University of Virginia. John Ridpath sub-let our apartment for the summer. After the summer he was to move out and to leave the apartment as he had found it.

We drove from Delaware to UVA at the end of August, and accompanying us was my grandmother and grandfather. My grandmother, upon entering the apartment said this place is a mess, and proceeding to clean the apartment, even though we told her please don’t, it’s fine. She enlisted my brother to help and when we were done she told us we were to keep it this clean as long as we lived there and we agreed.

The next day, my brother said to a mutual friend that John had left the apartment in a mess, and the friend told John. John showed up the day after that with a broom, mop, bucket and every other cleaning utensil that might be needed to clean the apartment.

I answered the door and there he was, standing with all that stuff. He said his word was good and he was there to clean the apartment. By brother came to the door behind me and said something sarcastic to John, which John accepted without responding. I told John that the apartment was fine, our grandmother had helped us cleaning and anyway I think it was as clean as we had left it in June.

I had no idea at the time that he was an Objectivist, but later found out. His behavior left a huge impression on me. Personal relationships meant something to him, not just because of the honor code at UVA, but because a deal was a deal. His word was his bond.

Later I got to know John better through the campus Objectivist club. I wish the best to him.

Semper cogitans fidele,

Peter Taylor

[Mike Renzulli]

Aside from the obvious books written by Ms. Rand, I would recommend 2 books:

Noble Vision by Gen LaGreca and Crosspoints: A Novel of Choice by Alexandra York.

Both novels are along Objectivist lines in which they are both love stories too. However, Noble Vision's main theme is socialized medicine, while Crosspoints main them is art.

Both books are very gone and can be bought at Amazon.com.

I have also acquired the book Ninety Three by Victor Hugo. I haven't read it yet, but Ms. Rand recommended it as well as other authors in her book The Romantic Manifesto.

If you haven't done so already, you might want to read Romantic Manifesto to get ideas of authors to read too since Ms. Rand recommends quite a few in her book.

I've heard of it, but don't really know who writes it beyond Terry Goodkind.

Anyone care to enlighten me?