Isn't it time for action?

[anthony]

I am beginning to think America is going mad.

The only nation born from an idea- as Rand identified it - is slipping ever faster into the non-ideas of socialism/fascism.

I have always viewed the U.S. as my spiritual home because of that idea of proud individualism, but am horrified at recent developments in the last 10 years, in foreign and domestic policy.

In brief, other countries, of far lesser value , are being pandered to, or propped up, by your nation. The message we are receiving out in the world is 'Please don't blame us for being the greatest,the free-est,the richest,the most powerful,the most self respecting Nation of all time! We are not really like that. See, we can be just like you!

Your external politics are beginning to resemble a popularity contest.

Internally, it's even worse,it seems. You are showing all the hallmarks of a nanny state, [ co-ercion, interference,paternalism ] that is so familiar to a South African.

I do agree that the most important way to combat this is via reason, and the New Intellectuals of the various Objectivist bodies are doing some fine work. But is it enough?

I find it amazing that I should ever be even considering this, since I have a personal distaste for anything collective. I recall the newsreels of the 60's and 70's of Americans converging on Washington in protest of their Government.

Mass action is possibly the last resort of a populace that is fed up.

However,if all divisions between the concerned groups- Objectivists,Libertarians,Conservatives [gasp], were suspended with this common purpose, an avalanche of citizens could be organized to descend on your capital city.

Their message to the U.S. and the world would send shivers down the spines of all those who hate true freedom-and your nation for being its last bastion- and would uplift those of us who loathe totalitarianism.

I can see the placards " LAISSEZ NOUS FAIRE !"

Or am I just dreaming :>)

Tony

[galtgulch]

Tony,

Although the Campaign For Liberty is not "perfect" it exists and is open to any who values their freedom as individuals. Naturally many are religious and not Objectivists although they have a common cause and can be reasoned with. I suggest you at least explore the www.campaignforlibery.com website and the www.YALiberty.com site

I think you will be surprised and impressed that the movement is strong and growing and is open to ideas. Although Ron Paul served as the initiator of this movement he has his flaws and points out himself that the movement is not about him rather it is up to each of us who join to decide what it makes sense for us to do. What is a shared endeavor is to make others aware of the movement and encourage others to join and to read the books, which includes Atlas Shrugged recommended by Ron Paul himself.

www.campaignforliberty.com 152,257 and growing (I joined last August when only 6000 were members) Given the current climate it is conceivable that soon there will be millions and then tens of millions will be even more attainable. We know there are not enough of us yet but our cause is contagious.

www.YALiberty.com

www.DownsizeDC.org

16May 152919

gulch

Edited May 16, 2009 by galtgulch

[BaalChatzaf]

I can see the placards " LAISSEZ NOUS FAIRE !"

Or am I just dreaming :>)

Tony

Americans have never truly bought into Laissez Nous Faire. They more frequently have backed government programs and schemes that promote their particular economic interests ahead of the interests of others. We have had Social Security (so-called) since 1937. Do you see any signs of it going away? I sure don't.

Fredric Bastiatte may be fun reading for some Americans but he was never taken quite seriously in the U.S.A.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Selene]

Gentlemen and ladies:

We have three to five generations, depending on how you define generations* of folks who have lived under social security.

I would guess that we all know someone who is disabled on SSD or SSI.

We have heard debates and warnings about the collapse of the Social Security System every generation.

We did not kill the program when we could, which is another reason why, and I am sure a few here would endorse, we should be moving to severely impede Islamic fascism now.

However, I do not see the will in the American people existing in another 10 to 15 years. We have at least one generation of "boys" who are either phamacologically castrated or psychologically castrated.

The time is now and we do not have a second to spare.

The statists are coming!

The statists are coming!

Adam

*gen·er·a·tion audio (jn-rshn) KEY

NOUN:

1. All of the offspring that are at the same stage of descent from a common ancestor: Mother and daughters represent two generations.

2. Biology A form or stage in the life cycle of an organism: asexual generation of a fern.

3. The average interval of time between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring.

4.

1. A group of individuals born and living about the same time.

2. A group of generally contemporaneous individuals regarded as having common cultural or social characteristics and attitudes: "They're the television generation" (Roger Enrico).

5.

1. A stage or period of sequential technological development and innovation.

2. A class of objects derived from a preceding class: a new generation of computers.

6. The formation of a line or geometric figure by the movement of a point or line.

7. The act or process of generating; origination, production, or procreation.

[Brant Gaede]

I don't think Social Security will collapse. They will just make it less valuable. Benefits have already been reduced by 40% by tinkering with the CPI. What will collapse is Medicare/Medicaid which is going on right now as doctors leave the system or outright retire. Can't blame them. If I were a doctor I wouldn't put up with third-party payer bullshit. Nor would I be a specialist who pays 6-figure insurance premiums. Screw that.

--Brant

[Selene]

Thanks.

Collapse was a poor choice of words.

[Christopher]

The will of the supposed average American is elusive. It turns up only after they die.

[Selene]

Chris:

Good one Chris, but what if they die intestate!

Or, without the anointing from the Church of "O"!

Oh my probate and prohibitions!

Adam

[dougplumb]

I've been looking into this for some time. I would suggest that anyone who is interested in learning what is actually going on to read "Web Of Debt" by Dr. Ellen Brown. I have not read this but I have read others. From interviews I have listened to with Brown she has added much to what has already existed as "Secrets Of The Federal Reserve" (Eustace Mullins) and "The Creature From Jekyll Island" (G. Edward Griffin). Griffin wrote The Creature and has a great web site on all of this. I don't recall its address.

Also, Dr. Stan Monteith has a great site with loads of interviews with various experts at www.radioliberty.com. Alan Watt is another great source at www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com. Bob Chapman at TheInternationalForecaster.com does great commentary on economics and provides links on his site.

*****Michael Shaw is another one. He explains Sustainable Development is a way that is clear and concise like no other. He is probably most clear in his explanations and his message is critically important - as important as Browns.

Its good to go back in time with stuff like "The Open Conspiracy" by HG Wells - its a great book for people who are not "conspiracy theorists" and for people that are environmentalists. It was written in or around the 30's. Club Of Rome books are available as well. They expose environmentalism and were not expected to be read by the general population.

*****Anything on the general topic of "Accepted For Value" is also great. People need to learn that law and banking are intertwined. They need to learn about where the money goes when they pay a parking ticket, not to mention their income tax.

sorry for the lack of links. Don't have much time, wanted to be "wide spectrum"in my response to this. These sources are the best of hundreds I have looked at over many years.

[Chris Grieb]

I can see the placards " LAISSEZ NOUS FAIRE !"

Or am I just dreaming :>)

Tony

Americans have never truly bought into Laissez Nous Faire. They more frequently have backed government programs and schemes that promote their particular economic interests ahead of the interests of others. We have had Social Security (so-called) since 1937. Do you see any signs of it going away? I sure don't.

Fredric Bastiatte may be fun reading for some Americans but he was never taken quite seriously in the U.S.A.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Ba'al; Haven't you heard Social Security and Medicare are running out of money!

[BaalChatzaf]

Ba'al; Haven't you heard Social Security and Medicare are running out of money!

Yes. That does not in anywise deny or affirm what I said about the inclination of American voters to favor programs that appear to provide benefits for them. There is the monetary equivalent to a printing press ready to go into action if SS and Medicare run dry. It will destroy the economy but the printing presses will turn.

The spice must flow --- From Dune by Frank Herbert.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[RidleyReport]

Thanks Tony for focusing on action rather than talk..

It does need to be peaceful action.

I did up a list of things people can do that seem most effective, after all these years of trying things. It is sort of NH-centric though.

http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=17486.0

[Christopher]

Isn't it time for action?

No. It's time to relax B)

[Selene]

Tony: we are going mad.

"I am beginning to think America is going mad.

The only nation born from an idea- as Rand identified it - is slipping ever faster into the non-ideas of socialism/fascism.

Your external politics are beginning to resemble a popularity contest.

Internally, it's even worse,it seems. You are showing all the hallmarks of a nanny state, [ co-ercion, interference,paternalism ] that is so familiar to a South African.

Mass action is possibly the last resort of a populace that is fed up...would send shivers down the spines of all those who hate true freedom-and your nation for being its last bastion- and would uplift those of us who loathe totalitarianism.

I can see the placards " LAISSEZ NOUS FAIRE !"

Or am I just dreaming :>)

Tony"

How is this guy's administration going for you? The Trevor Manuel guy sounds like a good force.

"JOHANNESBURG — South Africa’s new president, Jacob Zuma, named his cabinet on Sunday, introducing a lineup that largely signaled a desire for continuity rather than any lunge to the left, as some here had hoped and others feared.

Perhaps the most anticipated of Mr. Zuma’s decisions was the future of Trevor Manuel, the finance minister whose free-market policies won him the respect of the world’s bankers and the scorn of those who wanted a redistribution of wealth. Though Mr. Manuel gave up that post, he was elevated to a position as the head of a powerful new planning commission.

Mr. Manuel was appointed by Nelson Mandela in 1996. Last year, when it briefly seemed he might leave government, the markets went into a panic until he said he was willing to stay on the job.

This time, experts say, there is unlikely to be that kind of alarm, not only because Mr. Manuel is remaining in so prominent a role but also because he is being replaced by Pravin Gordhan, who has reaped praise from economists for increasing revenues as head of the tax authority.

“Pravin Gordhan has a very good reputation in his own right, not on anyone else’s coattails,” said Chris Hart, chief economist for the investment firm Investment Solutions. “He’s an advocate for responsible fiscal policy.”

Rudolf Gouws, chief economist for Rand Merchant Bank, said, “I’m sad to see Trevor go, but I know Pravin personally and he is an excellent choice.”

Mr. Zuma, sworn in on Saturday as South Africa’s fourth democratically elected president, said Mr. Manuel was being given an important post for strategic planning and he did not expect the move to frighten investors. “Markets are aware that at some point changes come,” Mr. Zuma said.

The left was not ignored, however. Mr. Zuma’s political party, the African National Congress, won the April 22 parliamentary elections with strong support from the South African Communist Party and a trade union federation. He was expected to reward these allies with cabinet appointments.

Blade Nzimande, leader of the Communist Party, was made minister for higher education and training. He holds a doctorate in philosophy and was a vital confederate during Mr. Zuma’s power struggle with the ousted president, Thabo Mbeki.

Ebrahim Patel, general secretary of a clothing and textiles union, was named minister of economic development. He and Mr. Nzimande could still pull the government leftward.

But the ability to make any significant changes in economic policy is handicapped by the worldwide recession. The past decade of South African prosperity has not been accompanied by a surge in employment. About one third of the country’s potential workers are without jobs, according to the government.

“I’m sure Blade Nzimande can make a capable education minister, but I hope his influence is confined to education,” said Mr. Hart, the economist, adding that he was concerned Mr. Nzimande might have a say in economic policy.

Mr. Zuma persuaded Kgalema Motlanthe to be his deputy president. Mr. Motlanthe, who served as interim president after Mr. Mbeki was pushed out last September, had said he preferred devoting his energies to work within the A.N.C. rather than the government.

The number of cabinet posts was increased to 34 from 28. Among those joining the team is Tokyo Sexwale, who, like Mr. Zuma, was a well-known fighter in the battle against apartheid.

A charismatic leader who was once one of the A.N.C.’s brightest stars, Mr. Sexwale left politics in 1998 and quickly became a mining tycoon and one of the nation’s wealthiest men. Mr. Zuma has said he wants to serve only one term in office, and Mr. Sexwale’s return to government as minister of human settlements, the top position in housing, may be a way of positioning himself for the presidency in 2014.

Barbara Hogan, who as health minister put an end to South Africa’s widely condemned advocacy of beetroot and garlic as a cure for AIDS, switched jobs to the ministry of public enterprises, another powerful position. She was replaced by Dr. Aaron Motsoaledi, the minister of education in Limpopo Province.

“It’s sad to lose Barbara Hogan because she had already started straightening things out,” said Zackie Achmat, the nation’s leading AIDS activist. “The new minister is something of an unknown quantity, but we’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.”

Mr. Zuma’s former wife, Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, exchanged portfolios from foreign affairs to home affairs, taking over one of government’s most troubled ministries.

It was widely expected that Nelson Mandela’s former wife, Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, would be given a senior position. She is back in Parliament after being convicted for fraud in 2003. But her popularity with the A.N.C. rank-and-file did not translate into the leadership of a ministry."

More Articles in World » A version of this article appeared in print on May 11, 2009, on page A4 of the New York edition.

Adam

[Michelle]

There is a Christian concept of a "living epistle." The idea is that the best way for Christians to persuade their fellow man to turn to Christ is to not try persuading others of their views at all, but merely to go about their lives and demonstrate with their actions the essential goodness of Christianity.

I dare say it is a terrific idea, if you make some slight modifications.

People respond to examples around them. Our society is filled with unprincipled criminals like the Enron execs. and cronies of the Bush administration who made their fortunes through fraud and pull. They now see businesses crawling on their hands and knees like shameless whores (strong word, maybe, but is there any other more appropriate?) begging the government to please save them from their own incompetence. These examples fill the airwaves. And this is called "Capitalism." Consider this--consider that this is what is now considered "capitalism"--fraud and dishonesty and pull--and it will come of no surprise that we now exist in such an unhealthy alarmist atmosphere.

Want to take action? Then take it. Take right action every day of your life. Live as great and heroic a life as is possible to you--show people that happiness on this Earth is possible, and that it can be accomplished by respecting reality consistently--show them that a selfish existence need not be an unprincipled one--and you'll do more to win people over than any half-baked mass movement ever will.

[Brant Gaede]

Good post, Michelle!

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

Isn't it time for action?

No. It's time to relax B)

You can do both with a laptop and recliner!

--Brant

multi-tasker

[Selene]

Excellent posts guys.

Yes Michelle for your own sake live it.

I did, and am, and will for my own sake.

However, enlisting people one at a time personally is the best way to grow, it is just that

impatient humans like myself love politics also.

Therefore, combining the two concepts of Michelle and Brant and the fun of being out in your

community enjoying life which is real politics we can move forward.

However, you need to prepare to get off the grid and know how to survive because you have value to yourself and your community.

Adam

[Michelle]

I hope that my post is not seen as promoting eschewing political action. It isn't. American politics is a dirty game and, as uninterested as I may be in the science of pull, I realize that the politicians are very interested in me. Any person with a proper interest in their own long-term prosperity will pay at least a little bit of attention to the country's political situation. And practical political action is fine. I'd love to see more Objectivists getting directly involved with government. But mass movements, by and large, are impractical to principled individuals. What always, inevitably, ends up happening is the people with the most sway, who are usually, without exception, second-handers (as second-handers make it their business to rule over other humans), draw the movement away from principles and toward a perverted and rigid dogma. A mass movement can only flourish in an atmosphere that is singularly anti-individualistic. This even occurs with smaller groups of people. Which is why Rand's ironically named "Collective" developed into a cult of sorts.

Edited May 25, 2009 by Michelle R