The OL "tribe" and the Tribal Mindset

[Brant Gaede]

Lindsay Perigo can't bear to say in so many words that he's done it, but this looks to me like a clear admission that Jim Valliant has vacated the premises over at SOLO:

http://www.solopassi...0#comment-85384

The Jim Valliant Flounce Watch is on Day 9, and counting.

Robert Campbell

Two things I can't keep in my head at the same time: Lindsay Perigo and what he calls "the grandeur of man," not with the language he habitually uses.

edit: I reviewed the entire thread Valliant made his last SOLOP post on. Linz for the life of him couldn't stop his I-gotta-be-the-alpha-dog shit. That one thing over the years has driven away scads of posters who weren't followers--at least his followers. Interestingly, it was Chris Cathcart chiming in that seems to have motivated Valliant to make his last post on SOLOP. You know he's not coming back because he abandoned his religion thread too. The big thing was Lindsay characterizing the ARI boys with "Stalinism" which Valliant couldn't stand. I'm with Valliant on that one. You don't use a 20 lb sledge to hammer a nail. Absent that Linz had some good points and it's blatantly obvious ARI is Valliant's comfort zone, not SOLOP.

--Brant

Edited March 11, 2010 by Brant Gaede

[Chris Grieb]

I rarely look at Perigo's site but I hope he can get some help.

[Jonathan]

Lindsay Perigo can't bear to say in so many words that he's done it, but this looks to me like a clear admission that Jim Valliant has vacated the premises over at SOLO:

http://www.solopassi...0#comment-85384

The Jim Valliant Flounce Watch is on Day 9, and counting.

Robert Campbell

Two things I can't keep in my head at the same time: Lindsay Perigo and what he calls "the grandeur of man," not with the language he habitually uses.

I think my favorite thing about Pigero's latest rant is that he's disgusted that Valliant is prostituting his "genius." Not his bumbling incompetence or his transparent, fifth-rate lawyerly maneuvering, but his "genius."

That and the fact that Pigero is still dedicated to trying his best to save Western Civilization with his consumer tastes in music. Apparently hordes of people, including most of us here at OL, are going around "disavowing" Romantic music by not joining Pigero in hating other music, and our doing so is endangering Western Civilization.

My least favorite thing is that Pigero is Rand-diminishing once again. He's calling her official Objectivist positions on music and aesthetic judgment, and others' agreement with them, "crass Keatingian conformity and ignorance." I wish he'd stop needing to shit all over Rand just because he doesn't have the intelligence to put together a substantive argument to counter her views on objectivity, subjectivity and music.

J

[Robert Campbell]

I think my favorite thing about Pigero's latest rant is that he's disgusted that Valliant is prostituting his "genius." Not his bumbling incompetence or his transparent, fifth-rate lawyerly maneuvering, but his "genius."

Not to mention that when I read it, I couldn't help thinking of Ayn Rand's diary entries bemoaning the loss of the greatness that could have been Nathaniel Branden.

Plecch!

Robert Campbell

[Robert Campbell]

Well, if you post a Flounce Watch, you may stimulate extra-fervent efforts to bring back the absent poster.

So first, Lindsay Perigo suddenly decides to deny that Jim Valliant has flounced (after several days of not saying a word about his absence)...

And then, sproingg, up pops Mr. Valliant:

http://www.solopassi...0#comment-85384

So we'll call the Flounce Watch off, after 10 days.

I want to quote one of Mr. Valliant's comeback posts, because he has rarely attained such dizzying heights of fatuity:

The recent exchange with Prof. Burns is probably the best in depth consideration of her biography that we can expect from any publication or website, anywhere -- thanks to SOLO and ONLY to SOLO -- and it's the sort of thing that The Journal of Ayn Rand Studies will continue to so desperately lack so long as men like Campbell work there.

There will be a review of Jennifer Burns' book in JARS. At least I haven't caused the journal to "desperately lack" one.

Whether my malign influence has insured its lack of quality won't be known until the review is published (not for a while yet, in a journal with two issues per year).

Robert Campbell

PS. Now let's see how long Messrs. Perigo and Valliant coexist before Mr. Perigo mentions Gary Hull again.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Robert,

All is now lovey-dovey in the pig-pen and once again you are the big bad wolf.

The hogs are a'sloppin...

Michael

EDIT: Just a point of curiosity. Doesn't the nitpicking over PARC that they do on SLOP remind you a bit of the Nancy Grace show, but a really vulgar classless Nancy Grace show? The parallel just hit me and it seems so... er... so right.

[Neil Parille]

I'm glad to see Valliant back. He's always good for a laugh. Two books come out which refute PARC and he implies that he's been vindicated.* Truly a man without shame.

-Neil Parille

*We are still awaiting his discussion of Anne Heller's bio.

[Chris Grieb]

It maybe a long wait.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Meanwhile, there seems to be a lot of cheering about what a worthless organization TAS has become.

(btw - Of course, I am of the opposite view.)

Michael

[Robert Campbell]

I see that Lindsay Perigo has now put "I'll Be Seeing You" back to the top of the blue area in SOLO, and warned one of his more faithful flunkies that any defense of "Randroidism" coming out of Mr. Gregster is "implicitly treacherous."

"Treacherous twerp" was the descriptor that followed Jeff Perren out the door at SOLOP.

Things are still tense over there.

Can Bob the Big Bad Wolf keep Jim and Linz united?

Wait till the next installment!

Robert Campbell

[James Heaps-Nelson]

Meanwhile, there seems to be a lot of cheering about what a worthless organization TAS has become.

(btw - Of course, I am of the opposite view.)

Michael

Michael,

TAS is brilliant in some areas, their current lineup for the upcoming seminar is amazing. Every time I think they've completely gone away, they come up with something else. I don't know if I'm going to be able to make it this year, but their cognitive science, AI and game theory offerings are awesome.

TAS and ARI really don't compete in the same arenas or for the same people anymore.

Jim

[Robert Campbell]

Jim,

Have you seen an actual speaker list yet?

I've agreed to do something at Free Minds 10 but don't know how close they are to finalizing their program.

Robert

[James Heaps-Nelson]

Jim,

Have you seen an actual speaker list yet?

I've agreed to do something at Free Minds 10 but don't know how close they are to finalizing their program.

Robert

Robert,

Yes, they put the speaker list up on their website. Some of the offerings look spectacular. it should be a great seminar.

Jim

[Robert Campbell]

Jim,

Yup, I didn't look for it in the right place.

Here 'tis:

http://www.freeminds2010.org/

Quite a lineup.

And early registration (by March 26) is $350.

Robert

[Chris Grieb]

Jim,

Yup, I didn't look for it in the right place.

Here 'tis:

http://www.freeminds2010.org/

Quite a lineup.

And early registration (by March 26) is $350.

Robert

Robert & Jim, Thanks for drawing my attention to this. I have to get my money in. See you all there.

[Robert Campbell]

Lindsay Perigo is now ripping into the upcoming Free Minds event.

The morbidly fascinated may find his rant at

http://www.solopassion.com/node/7457

By the time Mr. Perigo finishes excluding every category and subcategory of speaker he deems unworthy of an Objectivist event, you wonder how many could be left.

Himself and maybe three others?

Robert Campbell

PS. I'm amused to find that Mr. Perigo has chosen me for a panel, workshop, or discussion (I'm not sure exactly what it will be) on Objectivist Schisms. I just learned yesterday that this thing was planned, and have no idea yet whether I will be invited to participate in it.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Robert,

If he can get some poor sap to spring for it, he might be convinced to travel half-way around the world to give a speech nearby at the same time as the TAS Free Minds 2010 Summer Seminar. The topic, of course, would be bashing you, Barbara and a few others for good measure.

He might even manage to leech a whole 8 or 9 people from the event for his audience like he did that other time.

He could call the speech: "Rational Exuberance"

Michael

[Robert Campbell]

A couple of other thoughts:

(1) Ellen Stuttle—her interest in SOLO much revived by Jim Valliant's reappearance—accuses me of putting forth an unfalsifialble hypothesis.

I'd suggested that Messrs. Perigo and Valliant are holding their most recent reunion just to spite Bob the Big Bad Wolf.

Obviously she's bought into the Perigonian doctrine of Brandroid humorlessness.

It was a joke!!!

Obviously, Perigo and Valliant could present a semblance of amity in order to prove an ememy wrong.

They could do lots of things.

They could remain buds until death do them part, on account of their shared delight in sleaze.

In the absence of an announcement from Valliant about his absence, or a post by Perigo directly referring to it, Valliant could have flounced, resurfaced, and then pretended that nothing could been farther from his mind.

Who the hell knows?

And past some point or other, who the hell cares?

You make a prediction about this kind of thing, often you'll be wrong.

When people (or might not) do something just to prove you wrong, you'll be wrong even oftener.

At least I'm not making like a TV pundit. (The custom in that line of work is not to mention any of one's failed predictions, of which inevitably there are many.)

(2) Otherwise, La Stuttle is now openly calling me paranoid, and quoting enthusiastically from a putdown post that Allan Gotthelf made on the comment thread about Mayhew's book.

Stuttle and Gotthelf do make similar complaints about being misread. Maybe Dr. Gotthelf consulted her about the rhetoric to use? (Note to literal-minded Perigonians: also meant in jest.)

(3) Amidst their gripe-fest about TAS, Free Minds, and all that, Messrs. Perigo and Valliant repeat their tired charge that TAS always ignores Mr. Valliant's magnum opus.

Have they forgotten that I gave a talk about PARC at Free Minds 09? On the final morning panel, to be exact. I called the book's history a "Jerry Springer opera."

If I am asked to chime in about schisms at Free Minds 10, I shall provide an update.

Hmm, I'll bet they'd prefer that PARC was ignored.

Robert Campbell

[Chris Grieb]

Can I suggest that Lindsay be placed in a nice quiet room with no sharp pointed objects. Patrick Kennedy can be put in the next room.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Have they forgotten that I gave a talk about PARC at Free Minds 09? On the final morning panel, to be exact. I called the book's history a "Jerry Springer opera."

If I am asked to chime in about schisms at Free Minds 10, I shall provide an update.

Robert,

Will you be providing an update of PARC's most recent converts and their respective behavior?

Forgive the plural, but I don't want to... er... insinuate anybody in particular...

So I'm just askin'...

Michael

[Robert Campbell]

Michael,

Well, it looks like my update will mention that PARC seems to have gained 1 convert in the past year.

But I'll have to give a balanced presentation...

How many supporters has PARC lost during that time?

I don't have a count available, but if Bob Mayhew can publish a negative review of Jennifer Burns' book in an ARI-approved journal without mentioning PARC, the book has sustained a significant net loss.

Robert Campbell

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Robert,

Of course it has to be balanced.

But I'm just sitting here thinking... Who do you suppose is going to be in your audience if you give such an account?

I imagine many important figures in the Neo-Objectivist and libertarian orbit, along with some scientifically minded folks from the academic world. In fact, I expect your audience to be upper echelon intellectually.

So the sorry story of Valliant's horrendous scholarship and misquotes, in addition to the enormous amount of logical fallacies and rhetoric replacing facts, in short, the man making an outright fool of himself as a cult-advocate in everything but title, and the kind of person who would ever be attracted to such a low level of standards, should be quite entertaining to them.

Michael

[Robert Campbell]

Michael,

The Valliant saga will be amusing to some in that audience, productive of sorrowful head-shaking in others.

And now, over yonder, Ms. Stuttle has now pronounced that Big Bad Bob is a bona fide enemy of Objectivism:

I think it was an unfortunate day for the advancement of Objectivism when Robert Campbell became interested in Objectivism. Mystifies me what about Objectivism did attract him.

Objectivism's been in deep trouble since the day in 1968 when I opened my assigned copy of Anthem. All on account of me... And this has to be some kind of historical milestone, because Ms. Stuttle claims not to be an Objectivist.

Meanwhile, smelling salts and a bottle of Shiraz had better be kept behind emergency glass for Mr. Perigo.

When he opens the latest New Individualist, he'll see interviews with Jennifer Burns and Anne Heller, and reviews of both of their books by Will Thomas. Mr. Thomas even mentions PARC.

My sole point of agreement with Mr. Perigo is that Mr. Thomas, or someone from TAS, should have reviewed PARC, and done it five years ago.

Robert Campbell

PS. Ms. Stuttle asks who, besides me, would care whether Jim Valliant is still on speaking terms with Lindsay Perigo. Umm, obviously she cares. Ms. Stuttle scarcely posted at SOLO while Mr. Valliant was gone, and has grown positively frisky since his return.

[Brant Gaede]

I indirectly encouraged Valliant to return to SOLO by starting the "Hey Now" thread over there. There is something self refuting about how he posts and sometimes I think he flat out lies. As for SOLO, I don't want it to disappear either, but it seems to be shrinking again now that Valliant has made his comeback and has run out of things to say. He also seems to have abandoned his religion thread. However, he reads OL all the time, so I expect a post or two soon after this reminder.

What's wrong with Objectivism is the ARI closed loop dogmatic model which it inherited from Ayn Rand herself. It's okay for a cult or people who don't otherwise bring much to the table, but the moral-ethical superstructure has really yet to be built. The politics isn't much better, although much simpler.

So, anyway, shame on you Robert Campbell. As soon as I figure out why, I'll let you know.

--Brant

proactive

Edited March 14, 2010 by Brant Gaede

[9thdoctor]

I'd suggested that Messrs. Perigo and Valliant are holding their most recent reunion just to spite Bob the Big Bad Wolf.

You know, while unprovable/unfalsifiable, it does ring true.

BTW, look out, the agents of SLOPian sleaze have been known to stoop to petty vandalism.

Just look what they did to my vehicle! Next time you need a ride, you're on your own.