My Kid Could Paint That

[Jonathan]

I caught parts of an interesting documentary tonight called My Kid Could Paint That, which is about Marla Olmstead, a child who has been declared by some people to be a great abstract painter. Her paintings have sold for thousands of dollars.

My first thought when seeing some of the paintings in the film was that a child could not paint them despite their being rather wild and free-flowing abstract images. The sense of composition, brushwork, color choices and textures seemed to be those of an adult with a pretty good understanding of abstract art history, and definitely not something that a 4-year-old could do (seeing confident, controlled brushstrokes next to the sloppy, childish "Marla" signature with a backwards "R" is one of the contrasts that really sticks out). So it came as no surprise to me that Marla's father has been suspected of helping her -- either coaching her, completing paintings that she had started, or painting them entirely -- help that he denies giving her.

In the film, 60 Minutes II is shown doing a report on Marla. Her parents allowed the show's crew to set up a hidden camera in their home to tape her painting. But the painting that she creates shows none of the style or expression of the previous works attributed to her (and her father is heard on the hidden camera trying to goad her into painting, and giving her suggestions). The parents are devastated by the resulting 60 Minutes II piece, which suggests that Marla may have had help with the previous paintings, if she painted them at all. In what appears to be an attempt to salvage their reputations, the parents later film Marla creating another work which, unfortunately for them, also doesn't look like the previous works attributed to her (nor do still other works that they've more recently filmed her painting).

Another interesting aspect of the film is that painter and gallery owner Anthony Brunelli, who sells Marla's work and apparently played a big part in marketing her, appears to be resentful of the fact that famous abstract paintings, which might have taken a few minutes or hours to complete, are selling for tens of millions of dollars, where his work, which is painstaking photo-realistic canvases that might take months or years to create, peaks out at about $100,000. When speaking of abstract art created by people other than Marla, he seems to think of it as a marketing scam, yet he thinks she's a "genius." And when confronted with questions about Marla's legitimacy, he gets quite angry.

Anyway, I just thought I'd mention the film for anyone interested. Keep an eye out for it. I'm going to put it my Blockbuster list so that I can see it in its entirety.

J

[Chris Grieb]

Jonathan; I have heard about the artist and the movie.

I think this is the great problem with non-objective art. There can really be no standards.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Chris,

I thought Jonathan just showed that there are standards. Otherwise how can you tell an adult did it?

Michael

[BaalChatzaf]

Jonathan; I have heard about the artist and the movie.

I think this is the great problem with non-objective art. There can really be no standards.

More precisely there can be no objective standards. Like any art one can like it or not like it.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Brant Gaede]

Some people love to spend gobs and gobs of money on crap, put it up on their walls for a prestige kick and shouldn't let children see it for one of them might point out how crappy their crap really is.

--Brant

Edited January 27, 2009 by Brant Gaede

[tjohnson]

Some people love to spend gobs and gobs of money on crap, put it up on their walls for a prestige kick and shouldn't let children see it for one of them might point out how crappy their crap really is.

--Brant

LOL, Brant your posts are never boring.

[Jonathan]

Chris,

I thought Jonathan just showed that there are standards. Otherwise how can you tell an adult did it?

Michael

Exactly.

As is true with music, the standards that people use to judge abstract visual art are very subjective, and are not easy to identify or put into words -- especially when talking to people who don't have a serious interest in the arts, have never really created, are perhaps close-minded and hostile to the subject, or simply don't respond emotionally to certain genres -- but there clearly are some common standards of taste, and the documentary makes that quite evident. Even the filmmaker, who seems to be trying very hard to be sympathetic and trusting of Marla's parents, recognizes that he is seriously doubting them, and he seems to want more than anything to capture footage of Marla creating at the level that she is said to have created. It's obvious that he recognizes that the initial paintings attributed to her are significantly better than those that anyone has filmed her painting.

The more interesting aspect of the film, though, at least to me, is the "vibe" that the parents and gallery owner give off, and, from my perspective of having been very focused and passionate about art when I was Marla's age (including when I was creating abstract fingerpaintings), how nonchalant she seems to be in comparison. Watch the film for yourselves if you get the chance and see if you sense the same dissonance in the "vibes" that you get from the various participants in the film even prior to the 60 Minutes II segment.

J

[kiaer.ts]

I take it the Sixty Minutes hidden tape itself is not available?

The paintings are pretty, and obviously not done by the four year old, no more than she did her own glitzy web site.

So who is being abused worse here, her or Adolf Hitler Campbell?

[Chris Grieb]

It is worth noting that this is Jackson Pollock's birthday. Google is noting it.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

A thought just occurred to me. I doubt Jackson Pollock's stuff could be done by a very young child.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

As an aside, when I get in one of my weird moments, I try to imagine tap dancing to Rachmaninoff and it just doesn't go anywhere.

Michael

[Roger Bissell]

As an aside, when I get in one of my weird moments, I try to imagine tap dancing to Rachmaninoff and it just doesn't go anywhere.

Michael

Maybe not Rachmaninoff, but what about some of Chopin's waltzes? I think they'd make charming tap dance accompaniment!

reb

[Jonathan]

A thought just occurred to me. I doubt Jackson Pollock's stuff could be done by a very young child.

Michael

I doubt that good abstract art could be created by Objectivists who say that any child could do it. I've seen two of what appeared to be Objectivist (or Objectivish) attempts at mocking abstract art, and both were completely lacking in graphic rhythm, color coherence, value proportion, etc.

J

[Jonathan]

As an aside, when I get in one of my weird moments, I try to imagine tap dancing to Rachmaninoff and it just doesn't go anywhere.

Michael

Maybe not Rachmaninoff, but what about some of Chopin's waltzes? I think they'd make charming tap dance accompaniment!

reb

Or how about tap dancing to Rand's "tiddlywink" music? That might work.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Jonathan,

It would. But then it would make a terrible quip.

Here is a site for the real deal Rand-wise (apparently): Dismuke.

The page title is "Music With An Ayn Rand Connection."

If you scroll down, you come to an entry called "Tap Dancing," which lists a few tunes by Bill Robinson and Fred Astaire. The insinuation is that Rand might have liked them.

Earlier on the page, "Canadian Capers" is given, which is presented as one of Rand's favorites. It is also billed as "Tap Dance," but on the image of the record. The first half sounds a lot like Scott Joplin and the second half more like early 20th century operetta.

From what little I have seen of the guy who runs this site, I think he is in the orthodox Objectivist camp.

Michael

[anonrobt]

A thought just occurred to me. I doubt Jackson Pollock's stuff could be done by a very young child.

Michael

I doubt that good abstract art could be created by Objectivists who say that any child could do it. I've seen two of what appeared to be Objectivist (or Objectivish) attempts at mocking abstract art, and both were completely lacking in graphic rhythm, color coherence, value proportion, etc.

J

maybe, maybe not...

Visit My Website

[Rich Engle]

Michael:

If I may be so bold as to suggest, it might be that the reason you're having a problem with your Rachmaninoff dance routine is because (I assume), you are not using a good air baton conductor.

This is of great critical, and moreso technical importance, due to the precision and synchronization involved.

There's this one dude I heard about but I bet he's expensive.

r

Always there to help.

[Greybird]

[...] From what little I have seen of the guy who runs this site ["Dismuke"], I think he is in the orthodox Objectivist camp.

He most definitely is, and he doesn't quite manage to keep this separate from his considerable specialized knowledge of early recordings.

He also, from my experience, is routinely as abusive as is Lindsay Perigo. Especially when the topic gets around — as with Perigo — to music. He made the HPO newsgroup an even worse experience than it was fated to be from its inception, in matters both Objectivist and musical.

Read and download, if you wish, but don't try to interact with him. You'll be sorry. Trust me — I let myself put up too long with his abuse.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Greybird

[Barbara Branden]

Jonathan, I'm not doubting that Maria's paintings are faked, but I have seen examples in other art forms of children creating something that seemed utterly out of the emotional and technical range of a child. A few years ago a young girl violinist -- I believe she was eight or nine -- was on television playing two or three very sophisticated pieces of classical music (Unfortunately, I no longer recall the pieces.) I watched and listened, and I could hardly believe what I was seeing and hearing. There was an emotional depth and complexity to her playing that was immensely moving -- as well as a technical proficiency, which I was much less able to judge. I would not have believed that such emotional maturity was possible to a child of that age. I would have loved to know her history, to know if there might have been unusual experiences in her young life that caused her to grow up much beyond her years, but I had turned on my television part way through the program, and I wasn't able even to learn her name. Had I not seen that she was a child, I would have been certain the violinist was a mature adult who lived a life of great emotional richness.

Barbara

[Rich Engle]

Barbara,

I have seen this more than once, mostly through giving music lessons all these years...32 years now!

Sometimes, you really wonder about the emotional maturity. It almost makes a case for reincarnation; looks so much like that. I was recently given a lyric by an 8 yr old that simply could not have been coached out of her. It was a lyric about adult, romantic love relationships. I met her parents, her, at my partner's funeral (it's his granddaughter, though they only recently reconnected). She can't get to a guitar fast enough to write songs; I have to literally go out there and order her what you call a "mini-Strat." That's a small size Fender Stratocaster electric guitar. She demanded her passed Grandpa's guitar, but it is too long for her reach, it would mess her up right now. Nobody can figure out where this stuff is coming from out of her. I mean, lyrics rivalling anything out there in pop music, for what that is worth.

I do believe that there is a genetic thing with music, and I used to discount it. But somewhere, almost always it seems, if you trace it back, you find something in the family tree. Nature AND nurture, to be sure, but sometimes when you see a youngster do these things, it's really hard to figure out.

[John Tate]

I think attention needs to be paid to the fact that Children are individuals, and anything that applies typically to Children isn't much of a rule. There can be exceptions among Children who are brilliant.

Adults used to be impressed with me, especially my father and his friends from work (he is an engineer). My dad taught me Boolean algebra and such things very young as a child. By the time I was eleven I could design a lot of useful logic circuits with that knowledge. If I had the time and the need to do so, I could sit down and hash out my own computer almost from scratch.

I play guitar myself and often play music with this girl who is much younger than I am. She is only fourteen and absolutely brilliant at piano. She won't listen to anything if it isn't baroque/romantic period classical, she hates pop music, and generally she is unlike any other teenager I've known. She can be childish in her own ways but her intellectual maturity surpasses that of most adults I know. She pleases me because I know she is going to be tomorrows prime-mover.

She is who she is for a reason, it is related to her parents but is most certainly unrelated to genetics. I dislike the notion of genetic qualities. Essentially to believe the girl I just talked about is a purely biological event makes a mockery of her own choices and decisions. I think the fact that she had parents who allowed and encouraged her to study music is more likely. The same sort of things would apply to most of the cases talked about in this thread.

Edited February 16, 2009 by John Tate

[tjohnson]

It's a combination of genetics and environment - nature and nurture. We are born with predispositions and then we are shaped by our environment, the result is a combination of both and represents a myriad of possibilities.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

GS,

There is also conscious choice (volition) involved. This capacity grows as the child matures.

Michael

[tjohnson]

GS,

There is also conscious choice (volition) involved. This capacity grows as the child matures.

Michael

Of course, and that's the beauty of mankind - we can learn from not only our immediate upbringing but virtually everyone else on the planet via our ability to record and relate our experiences to one another. This ability is growing exponentially.

[Jonathan]

Jonathan, I'm not doubting that Maria's paintings are faked, but I have seen examples in other art forms of children creating something that seemed utterly out of the emotional and technical range of a child. A few years ago a young girl violinist -- I believe she was eight or nine -- was on television playing two or three very sophisticated pieces of classical music (Unfortunately, I no longer recall the pieces.) I watched and listened, and I could hardly believe what I was seeing and hearing. There was an emotional depth and complexity to her playing that was immensely moving -- as well as a technical proficiency, which I was much less able to judge. I would not have believed that such emotional maturity was possible to a child of that age. I would have loved to know her history, to know if there might have been unusual experiences in her young life that caused her to grow up much beyond her years, but I had turned on my television part way through the program, and I wasn't able even to learn her name. Had I not seen that she was a child, I would have been certain the violinist was a mature adult who lived a life of great emotional richness.

Barbara

Hi Barbara,

You might be thinking of Anna Lee, a very talented young violinist about whom I've posted this story a few times in the past:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4803376

I agree that she's very gifted, and from what I've heard and seen of her, she seems to be very bright, enthusiastic and proud. I didn't get the same impression of Marla Olmstead. Not that Marla is in some way bad or anything. She seems to be a sweet little girl. But her personality just doesn't come across as that of a someone creatively aware and driven like Anna Lee.

J