Campaign for Liberty continues to grow and organize...

[galtgulch]

Galt:

What part of Brooklyn - I know it wasn't the Redhook Projects!

Adam

Flatbush!

www.campaignforliberty.com membership 98136 on its way to 99,000 at a fast pace.

These members of the movement are strong advocates of limited government as prescribed by the Founders in the Constitution. If they follow Ron Paul's advice and read Ludwig von Mises and Atlas Shrugged they will be a voice for laissez faire Capitalism.

I think they are allies in our quest for freedom. I understand that many of them are religious but at least they are for individual freedom with some contradictions. Tough! Are we going to wait until miraculously the majority of the population decide to abandon their upbringing on their own?

I don't want to live in a theocracy either but that is not what they have in mind. We have to try to reason with everyone who doesn't agree with us. Those on the left and those on the right as well. Just as a seed can take root in a crevice anywhere on a mountainside I think we should not assume that our ideas cannot take root because a person has religious beliefs is a mistake. These C4L and YAL individuals are motivated to organize, educate themselves and others about economics and limited government. I think we should befriend them and work with them. In time opportunities will present themselves to discuss other issues.

It is foolish to refuse to deal with this C4L movement which is clearly on the ascendancy. But I know some of us here are involved with it.

membership 99138; 11AM 98147 4 Dec; 11:45AM 98149; 5DEC 6:32 98263, 4PM 98301; 6 Dec 6AM 98347, 6PM 98389;

7Dec 7AM 98425, 5PM 98463, 10 PM 98476;

gulch

Edited January 8, 2009 by galtgulch

[Brant Gaede]

Gulch,

Since you are after freedom, can you tell us in one succinct paragraph what freedom is and depends on politically and morally and between the ears?

--Brant

[galtgulch]

Gulch,

Since you are after freedom, can you tell us in one succinct paragraph what freedom is and depends on politically and morally and between the ears?

--Brant

Brant,

I know what it isn't! What is this? An essay question? Are you suggesting that I have no idea? I know one thing. If we are ever to achieve true freedom in this country it is going to require that a significant percentage of the population shares the vision.

A long time ago I had hopes that the Objectivist movement would spread rapidly. I still think that it is imperative that the ideas which Objectivists hold to be true must be held by those who will seek positions of power and influence throughout the society, parents, educators, teachers and professors at every level, artists, journalists, editors, writers, actors and politicians, in order for freedom to become a reality. It is tempting to include clergy to at least support separation of church and state.

Notice how the Campaign For Liberty is growing around the clock and at an ever increasing rate so far. 98477 at the moment. If they succeed in their endeavor to educate the populace regarding the importance of the limits of government power enshrined in the Constitution and in finding credible candidates in every Congressional and Senatorial district to run for office in one or both major parties, shouldn't we make sure that they are armed with the ideas which we know are crucial to serve as the basis of the kind of society we aspire to create?

I know many of our fellow citizens are not open to what we believe so at some point we will run into a wall. But the population isn't static. There are always younger people coming up. For once and for a change they will hear substantial dialog rather than the pathetic, superficial, beauty contest which passed for a political campaign we just endured.

Polls have suggested that a substantial portion, perhaps 22% of the population is open to libertarian ideas. I suppose they usually vote for the lesser of two evils or a third party candidate or just sit the elections out without voting at all. But if they heard the kind of candidates who advocate returning to adherence to the Constitution within the major parties they will support them.

This movement will gain momentum as the failures of the current administration and those of the past manifest themselves.

Next morning 98498 at 5:55AM 8 Dec 09 She grew while you were sleeping! 5:17 PM 8 Dec 98538

gulch

Edited January 8, 2009 by galtgulch

[Brant Gaede]

The anti-intellectualism of libertarianism has never impressed me.

--Brant

[Selene]

Brant, Galt and Folks:

I was always quite saddened by the anti-political stance of NBI and most Objectivists. The impression that I sensed was that they did not want to get their hands dirty.

And as Brant just pointed out their was an anti- philosophical/intellectual aspect to the Libertarian movement.

I was only able to bring a few from each camp into a particular political campaign I was hired for and I think it was the force of my personality, good pay and a hard nosed philosophical approach to politics. Plus I hate to lose at anything - from chess to football to politics.

Adam

[Brant Gaede]

Ayn Rand tended to discourage political activism. I think it was a great mistake. It let the libertarians go off on their own without a good grounding in philosophy, especially ethics. Her contemning of libertarians simply drove them further off. I think this hurt both parties and their cultural, intellectual and political influence. Then there is the ARI determined to keep the dead lady alive quite unnaturally for sure, but more as their zombie than anything else.

--Brant

[galtgulch]

At 6:30 23 Dec 97090

OT: Video telephony might be the next big thing.

ACN brought WGAT back to life. Up from 0.006 a few weeks ago closed at 0.37 yesterday on over 2M volume.

WGAT created the Ojo (www.ojophone.com) enabling callers to see each other at eye level with audio synchrony and just $9.95 per month for unlimited broadband internet video calls worldwide.

galt

Are your stock picks as good as your political prognistications?

Ba'al Chatzaf

Ba'al,

If one had the audacity to have taken a position in WGAT when it was one penny a share the gain so far at a close today of $0.36 a share would have been life changing, especially if a large position were taken. Alas I did not but cling to what shares I do have and enjoy using my Shadow Ojo to see and talk/visit with others who know the pleasure of a high quality video telephone. I bought mine at a sale when CompUSA was closing a store nearby for $180.

I am not in the financial advisory business but I am sure that with the printing presses rolling foolishly day and night ala Keynesian economics surely the last few pennies of value of the dollar will be squeezed out of it while other currencies and gold and silver skyrocket unless other countries inflate as well.

Regarding politics, I have my hopes that the Campaign For Liberty takes off as some of its members are evidently busy spreading the word I suspect within the colleges countrywide. If enough who join understand what is happening for a change the momentum should build. If it does there might just be a visible movement come the next election of Congressmen or at the state level in the legislatures and governorships. If not we are sunk! Or should I say doomed to becoming a totalitarian dictatorship with a "benevolent" tyrant at the helm looking out for us and our children.

www.campaignforliberty.com membership 6PM 8 Dec 98541. 10PM 98552

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."

—Thomas Jefferson

gulch

Edited January 9, 2009 by galtgulch

[Brant Gaede]

At 6:30 23 Dec 97090

OT: Video telephony might be the next big thing.

ACN brought WGAT back to life. Up from 0.006 a few weeks ago closed at 0.37 yesterday on over 2M volume.

WGAT created the Ojo (www.ojophone.com) enabling callers to see each other at eye level with audio synchrony and just $9.95 per month for unlimited broadband internet video calls worldwide.

galt

Are your stock picks as good as your political prognistications?

Ba'al Chatzaf

Ba'al,

If one had the audacity to have taken a position in WGAT when it was one penny a share the gain so far at a close today of $0.36 a share would have been life changing, especially if a large position were taken. Alas I did not but cling to what shares I do have and enjoy using my Shadow Ojo to see and talk/visit with others who know the pleasure of a high quality video telephone. I bought mine at a sale when CompUSA was closing a store nearby for $180.

I am not in the financial advisory business but I am sure that with the printing presses rolling foolishly day and night ala Keynesian economics surely the last few pennies of value of the dollar will be squeezed out of it while other currencies and gold and silver skyrocket unless other countries inflate as well.

Regarding politics, I have my hopes that the Campaign For Liberty takes off as some of its members are evidently busy spreading the word I suspect within the colleges countrywide. If enough who join understand what is happening for a change the momentum should build. If it does there might just be a visible movement come the next election of Congressmen or at the state level in the legislatures and governorships. If not we are sunk! Or should I say doomed to becoming a totalitarian dictatorship with a "benevolent" tyrant at the helm looking out for us and our children.

www.campaignforliberty.com membership 6PM 8 Dec 98541

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."

—Thomas Jefferson

Taking a large position in a penny stock gooses the price up, which you'll have to chase. Selling a large position has the opposite effect. You'll be lucky not to lose most of your investment. You could not have even known that the 1 cent stock was going to 36. Up to 8 down to 5 up to 20 down to 10 up to 25 you'll be panicked in and out. Just buying and holding means that at 36 you don't know what to do next so you keep holding then it's down to 9 up to 12, etc. etc. Why would you sell at 36 instead of 20? So you hold on hoping for 55. These are naive, ignorant investor scenarios. There are more sophisticated ways to play this and even make money if you are lucky, but if you are so sophisticated you aren't so ignorant to have anything whatsoever to do with stocks under 1 dollar if not under 5 unless you're a crook stock manipulator pumping and dumping.

--Brant

[Selene]

Galt:

One of my top 200 movies is the western remake of the Seven Samurai, the Magnificent Seven.

"If enough who join understand what is happening for a change the momentum should build. If it does there might just be a visible movement come the next election of Congressmen or at the state level in the legislatures and governorships. If not we are sunk! Or should I say doomed to becoming a totalitarian dictatorship with a "benevolent" tyrant at the helm looking out for us and our children."

Steve McQueen and Yul Brenner are going over their preparations, knowing that if they miss one opportunity to bait the trap properly, they will probably be wiped out by Calvera [played beautifully by Eli Wallach] and Brenner extemporizes,

"if they don't notice the new fences,..." the new walls - civic improvements and he gives an if explanation for each item.

McQueen looks at him and goes "If brother...if..." and just shakes his head.

I basically, in my gut feel we have lost for now and it is going to get much worse in certain long term places in the structure of government.

Just the fact that folks are starting to hoard incandescent light bulbs because the State says you cannot possess them after 2012 shows how sheep like we have become.

Except for a small percentage of the population who would fight for their real freedom, I believe that we have been caponized as males in the educational system and we are going to need all the men we can get when and if we have to say no.

And I am an optimist lol.

Adam

[galtgulch]

Galt:

One of my top 200 movies is the western remake of the Seven Samurai, the Magnificent Seven.

"If enough who join understand what is happening for a change the momentum should build. If it does there might just be a visible movement come the next election of Congressmen or at the state level in the legislatures and governorships. If not we are sunk! Or should I say doomed to becoming a totalitarian dictatorship with a "benevolent" tyrant at the helm looking out for us and our children."

Steve McQueen and Yul Brenner are going over their preparations, knowing that if they miss one opportunity to bait the trap properly, they will probably be wiped out by Calvera [played beautifully by Eli Wallach] and Brenner extemporizes,

"if they don't notice the new fences,..." the new walls - civic improvements and he gives an if explanation for each item.

McQueen looks at him and goes "If brother...if..." and just shakes his head.

I basically, in my gut feel we have lost for now and it is going to get much worse in certain long term places in the structure of government.

Just the fact that folks are starting to hoard incandescent light bulbs because the State says you cannot possess them after 2012 shows how sheep like we have become.

Except for a small percentage of the population who would fight for their real freedom, I believe that we have been caponized as males in the educational system and we are going to need all the men we can get when and if we have to say no.

And I am an optimist lol.

Adam

Adam,

And here I thought you were a realist!

Certainly you are not suggesting that there is no hope.

I am listening to the lecture by Michael Badnarik as I write this and he quotes Benjamin Rush which essentially says that Education is necessary for there to be freedom. That knowledge is necessary for men to be free. People do not realize just what there rights are and are not likely to know unless they are taught.

In this day and age, with the internet and youtube videos available to virtually everyone it should be possible to enlighten people despite the efforts of the public schools to keep certain information out of the focus of everyone as they pass through.

That is why one of the main purposes of the Campaign For Liberty is to educate everyone, one at a time if necessary, and this is being done, and will continue to be done, until we succeed in enlightening enough people so that we can elect people to represent our principles.

We are working on it actively. Here is a link to the lectures by Michael Badnarik on the Constitution for example:

http://tinyurl.com/7xqtlt

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Either you are going about your business without doing anything to help our cause in which case you are just ballast. Or you are considering yourself to be involved in this cause in addition to going about your daily business. If you do then you will take advantage of opportunities to pass the torch. You will also try to think of activities which will help the cause, such as writing letters to the editor or op ed articles or books, or becoming active in your community to represent your convictions.

98554 more than half way to the next thousand mark. The membership is growing by a couple of hundred people every few days.

6AM 9 Dec 98577, 11:44 PM 98640

gulch

Edited January 10, 2009 by galtgulch

[Brant Gaede]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Either you are going about your business without doing anything to help our cause in which case you are just ballast.

Thanks for the insult--derivative Ayn Rand, BTW. You can't even tell us what your "cause" is. "Freedom" says nothing. Just a word. Your cause is only some kind of immovable movement pretending it's moving.

--Brant

[Selene]

Galt:

Interesting. My four associates are launching a school that is also based on the Constitutional Republic we reside in. The discussion is whether it is going to be a 501©3 as the center core of the business model or an offshoot.

The 37 year old who developed Mozilla/Firefox has his center as the 501©3.

Adam

[galtgulch]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Either you are going about your business without doing anything to help our cause in which case you are just ballast.

Thanks for the insult--derivative Ayn Rand, BTW. You can't even tell us what your "cause" is. "Freedom" says nothing. Just a word. Your cause is only some kind of immovable movement pretending it's moving.

--Brant

Brant,

I didn't mean you personally. I think most people have no idea what is going on or why. The media tells them that the banks are responsible for the sub prime mortgage crisis and they believe it. They are not told about the fact that the Congress passed a law compelling bankers to offer loans to people who could not meet their usual criteria with a threat of jail time!

We don't have forever to change the flow toward totalitarianism before it becomes a torrent. The ship is sinking fast. The powers that be have us believing that we are in a crisis and that something must be done.

I had a conversation with a physician last night. I suggested that it was important that a proper diagnosis be made rather than just treating symptoms. His response was to disagree. He suggested the analogy that a patient is unconscious and in cardiac arrest. He suggested that under such circumstanses it was necessary to resuscitate the patient long before wondering what had caused the arrest. At such a time he said it doesnt matter what is the diagnosis it is just necessary to act to revive the patient.

I said to him that it is a ridiculous analogy, that the economy is not near death or in extremis, that what is being prescribed is more of the same poison which has caused the crisis in the first place, printing more paper fiat currency. He preferred his analogy and insisted that it made no sense to try to diagnose rather to rush ahead and do "ANYTHING!"

The race against time reminds me of a joke: A rabbi, a priest and a lawyer are on a ship with a troop of young boy scouts when the ship starts to sink and goes down. All scramble aboard a raft which also begins to flounder. The rabbi says "We have to save these little boys!" The lawyer says, "Fuck the little boys!"and the priest exclaims, "Is there enough time?"

My contention is that virtually everyone who has ever read a book on the subject of the Federal Reserve by Rothbard or von Mises knows. Those who have read and understood Rand's book reviews in TON know. Those who have read articles by so many authors in the movement know. But not all have joined the Campaign For Liberty or think they have a chance.

I went to bed last night just before midnight and the membership was 98640 and at 7AM today it is 98695. If this is to be believed 55 joined while we slept. As time goes on this movement will surely grow faster and faster because there will be more members who are passing the torch actively each day.

It is almost time to write a Second Declaration of Independence as our elected officials usurp. Or is that an oxymoronic statement since they are elected. The public schools have made the population ignorant of our history and of the principles of the Constitution and certainly of economics. The only answer is to educate the public.

www.campaignforliberty.com

gulch

[Chris Grieb]

Ayn Rand tended to discourage political activism. I think it was a great mistake. It let the libertarians go off on their own without a good grounding in philosophy, especially ethics. Her contemning of libertarians simply drove them further off. I think this hurt both parties and their cultural, intellectual and political influence. Then there is the ARI determined to keep the dead lady alive quite unnaturally for sure, but more as their zombie than anything else.

--Brant

Brant; I think Rand discouraged political activism because of her bad experience. She spent quite a bit of time and money in Willkie's campaign in 1940.

She had very high hopes with the Goldwater campaign in 1964 which she discussed in her article "It's Earlier Than You Think". She had high hopes for Reagan after his famous speech but was disillusioned with him.

She then reached the conclusion that only with a change at the country's philosphy could real political change occur. I must say I can't disagree with her.

[BaalChatzaf]

Ayn Rand tended to discourage political activism. I think it was a great mistake. It let the libertarians go off on their own without a good grounding in philosophy, especially ethics. Her contemning of libertarians simply drove them further off. I think this hurt both parties and their cultural, intellectual and political influence. Then there is the ARI determined to keep the dead lady alive quite unnaturally for sure, but more as their zombie than anything else.

--Brant

Brant; I think Rand discouraged political activism because of her bad experience. She spent quite a bit of time and money in Willkie's campaign in 1940.

She had very high hopes with the Goldwater campaign in 1964 which she discussed in her article "It's Earlier Than You Think". She had high hopes for Reagan after his famous speech but was disillusioned with him.

She then reached the conclusion that only with a change at the country's philosphy could real political change occur. I must say I can't disagree with her.

I think you are saying change must be from the bottom up, not the top down. Do I read you correctly?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Chris Grieb]

Ayn Rand tended to discourage political activism. I think it was a great mistake. It let the libertarians go off on their own without a good grounding in philosophy, especially ethics. Her contemning of libertarians simply drove them further off. I think this hurt both parties and their cultural, intellectual and political influence. Then there is the ARI determined to keep the dead lady alive quite unnaturally for sure, but more as their zombie than anything else.

--Brant

Brant; I think Rand discouraged political activism because of her bad experience. She spent quite a bit of time and money in Willkie's campaign in 1940.

She had very high hopes with the Goldwater campaign in 1964 which she discussed in her article "It's Earlier Than You Think". She had high hopes for Reagan after his famous speech but was disillusioned with him.

She then reached the conclusion that only with a change at the country's philosphy could real political change occur. I must say I can't disagree with her.

I think you are saying change must be from the bottom up, not the top down. Do I read you correctly

Ba'al Chatzaf

Baal; Change must come from each individual mind. That maybe the top or the bottom. I think the best hope is the young.

[Selene]

Folks:

At the risk of being branded a heretic lol who the hell cares whether Ayn got her panties twisted because of her "bad" or "sad" experiences with politics.

That begs the question of is it a rational course of action for objectivists to be heavily involved in politics?

I answer with a resounding yes and the more local the more effective.

You build from the bottom up and believe me you will find more than enough potential leaders, some might even be worthy of being followed.

Adam

[tjohnson]

Yes, I no longer believe it is possible to substantially change an economic/political system by changing the leaders (ie. elections). I believe it must eventually come about by educating the masses so they make better choices in life. Have you noticed how hardly anything you buy nowadays can be serviced, or if it can it's cheaper to throw it away and buy a new one? Why is that? I think it's because people want material things so bad that they will pay a smaller amount for cheap things just so they can own it instead of paying a higher price for quality. I think there is tremendous power in the hands of the consumer if we all "thought the same way", and this doesn't just apply to material goods.

[Selene]

Tom:

It is also because of "planned obsolescence" which I remember being posited by an author by the name of Vance Packard from the 1950's who coined that phrase and argued that the evil capitalists were designing products that would be cheaper to replace than to repair.

He was right about the latter.

Adam

[galtgulch]

Yes, I no longer believe it is possible to substantially change an economic/political system by changing the leaders (ie. elections). I believe it must eventually come about by educating the masses so they make better choices in life. Have you noticed how hardly anything you buy nowadays can be serviced, or if it can it's cheaper to throw it away and buy a new one? Why is that? I think it's because people want material things so bad that they will pay a smaller amount for cheap things just so they can own it instead of paying a higher price for quality. I think there is tremendous power in the hands of the consumer if we all "thought the same way", and this doesn't just apply to material goods.

general semanticist,

Boy do I ever agree with you! We are in good company as Thomas Jefferson evidently thought the same way:

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."

—Thomas Jefferson

98702

gulch

[Brant Gaede]

Boy do I ever agree with you! We are in good company as Thomas Jefferson evidently thought the same way:

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."

—Thomas Jefferson

Sounds like a plea for public education, one of the great cultural/intellectual forces behind collectivism, especially with the eschewing of critical thinking.

--Brant

[tjohnson]

Yes, I think education is ultimately the solution but the BIG problem is the kind of education - this is the sticking point. Currently public schools are in very bad shape due to the bureaucratization of our systems to the extent that they are almost useless. So then the task falls upon parents themselves and so we seem to be regressing to a time when most schooling was done in the confines of the home.

[BaalChatzaf]

Yes, I think education is ultimately the solution but the BIG problem is the kind of education - this is the sticking point. Currently public schools are in very bad shape due to the bureaucratization of our systems to the extent that they are almost useless. So then the task falls upon parents themselves and so we seem to be regressing to a time when most schooling was done in the confines of the home.

The time has come to eliminate the public schools. There should be a clear separation between State and School.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Selene]

Tom...

Home schooling is geometrically increasing right now. I do not see it as regressing, I see it as progressing with all the educational technological assets that now exist at your fingertips.

Robert...

You are absolutely correct on the separation between the school/educational institution and the state.

Adam

[galtgulch]

Tom...

Home schooling is geometrically increasing right now. I do not see it as regressing, I see it as progressing with all the educational technological assets that now exist at your fingertips.

Robert...

You are absolutely correct on the separation between the school/educational institution and the state.

Adam

Anyone know the status of the Atlas Shrugged movie project? If a provocative movie of Atlas came out it just might serve as a catalyst among the young people. Last I heard it has stalled but I wonder if the project will come back to life in the near future, before it is too late!

98722