Male Circumcision: Mutilation or Modification?

[Brant Gaede]

STOP!

--Brant

[Martin Radwin]

STOP!

--Brant

I agree. If we have to talk about sex organs, I would much rather talk about female sex organs!

Martin

[Brant Gaede]

STOP!

--Brant

I agree. If we have to talk about sex organs, I would much rather talk about female sex organs!

Martin

Stop!

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

(I just couldn't resist. )

Michael

[Chris Grieb]

Michael; Isn't the moderator supposed to keep us on the right path. Aren't you supposed to be the sane one?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Aren't you supposed to be the sane one?

Chris,

Where did you hear that smear?

Michael

[Selene]

Russel Crowe Has a "tip" for those who favor circumcision

Two weeks ago, Russell Crowe made headlines not for his work as an actor, but for throwing himself into the heated circumcision debate. He ended a vitriolic Twitter rant against the practice with these words: "if u feel it is yr right 2 cut things off yr babies please unfollow and f**k off, I'll take attentive parenting over barbarism." The star's

tirade

-- and the various reactions to it -- reflects the issues that have transformed this practice into a cultural lightning rod. Despite being the most common medical procedure performed on children, circumcision generates so much controversy that most doctors and medical organizations throughout the world refuse to take a firm stance on its medical merits. Instead, physicians chalk up the choice to one of "family values."

Remember what he did with that arrow "tip" in Gladiator!

Adam

[BaalChatzaf]

Russel Crowe Has a "tip" for those who favor circumcision

Two weeks ago, Russell Crowe made headlines not for his work as an actor, but for throwing himself into the heated circumcision debate. He ended a vitriolic Twitter rant against the practice with these words: "if u feel it is yr right 2 cut things off yr babies please unfollow and f**k off, I'll take attentive parenting over barbarism." The star's

tirade

-- and the various reactions to it -- reflects the issues that have transformed this practice into a cultural lightning rod. Despite being the most common medical procedure performed on children, circumcision generates so much controversy that most doctors and medical organizations throughout the world refuse to take a firm stance on its medical merits. Instead, physicians chalk up the choice to one of "family values."

Remember what he did with that arrow "tip" in Gladiator!

Adam

Crowe is quite the "bloke" but his opiinion of perfecting the male organ are quite in error. A circumcised dick is a clean perfect dick and it is also a happy kissable dick being free from the curse of smegma. It is also a dick that will stand up longer and stronger. Anyone who thinks circumcision renders the Tool less than adequate should check the size of the families of Orthodox Jews. They don't have families. They have baseball teams.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[studiodekadent]

free from the curse of smegma.

Whilst I agree with the unpleasantness of smegma (I am an uncircumcized gentleman, but its not like its difficult to clean myself), to describe it as "the curse of smegma" conjures up images of Carrie's Mother ranting about "the curse of blood" (if you're familiar with "Carrie" you know what I mean).

Smegma is unsavory. That doesn't mean its a 'curse.'

Your reasoning really is highly aesthetic in origin.

[BaalChatzaf]

free from the curse of smegma.

Whilst I agree with the unpleasantness of smegma (I am an uncircumcized gentleman, but its not like its difficult to clean myself), to describe it as "the curse of smegma" conjures up images of Carrie's Mother ranting about "the curse of blood" (if you're familiar with "Carrie" you know what I mean).

Smegma is unsavory. That doesn't mean its a 'curse.'

Your reasoning really is highly aesthetic in origin.

No. It is highly Jewish in origin.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Xray]

free from the curse of smegma.

Whilst I agree with the unpleasantness of smegma (I am an uncircumcized gentleman, but its not like its difficult to clean myself), to describe it as "the curse of smegma" conjures up images of Carrie's Mother ranting about "the curse of blood" (if you're familiar with "Carrie" you know what I mean).

Smegma is unsavory. That doesn't mean its a 'curse.'

Your reasoning really is highly aesthetic in origin.

No. It is highly Jewish in origin.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Your reasoning is highly mythological in origin because circumcision is mandatory in your religion.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Xray

[BaalChatzaf]

Your reasoning is highly mythological in origin because circumcision is mandatory in your religion.

Actually not, According to Rabbinic law, in a family afflicted with the bleeding disease, circumcision is forbidden.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Xray]

Your reasoning is highly mythological in origin because circumcision is mandatory in your religion.

Actually not, According to Rabbinic law, in a family afflicted with the bleeding disease, circumcision is forbidden.

Ba'al Chatzaf

This exception merely confirms the rule.

[BaalChatzaf]

Your reasoning is highly mythological in origin because circumcision is mandatory in your religion.

Actually not, According to Rabbinic law, in a family afflicted with the bleeding disease, circumcision is forbidden.

Ba'al Chatzaf

This exception merely confirms the rule.

Exceptions disprove general rules. Logic 101. There are conditions under which circumcision is forbidden, not required.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Xray]

Your reasoning is highly mythological in origin because circumcision is mandatory in your religion.

Actually not, According to Rabbinic law, in a family afflicted with the bleeding disease, circumcision is forbidden.

Ba'al Chatzaf

This exception merely confirms the rule.

Exceptions disprove general rules. Logic 101.

There are conditions under which circumcision is forbidden, not required.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Let's stay focused: these exceptions don't change the fact that circumcision is mandatory in your religion.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Xray

[BaalChatzaf]

Let's stay focused: these exceptions don't change the fact that circumcision is mandatory in your religion.

Only if the infant is healthy enough for the procedure. If the infant is sickly it is forbidden. Life takes precedence over ritual.

Mandatory means must be done, period, no exceptions. In that sense, circumcision is not mandatory. There are exceptions.

Exceptions nullify general assertions and rules. The statement all x is A is negated if there exists an x which is not A.

Logic 101.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Xray]

Let's stay focused: these exceptions don't change the fact that circumcision is mandatory in your religion.

Only if the infant is healthy enough for the procedure. If the infant is sickly it is forbidden. Life takes precedence over ritual.

Mandatory means must be done, period, no exceptions. In that sense, circumcision is not mandatory. There are exceptions.

Exceptions nullify general assertions and rules. The statement all x is A is negated if there exists an x which is not A.

Logic 101.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Are you trying wriggle out, Ba'al? ;)

Since quite obviously you don't don't feel comfortable with the term "mandatory", which term would you suggest instead?

In Judaism, circumcision is ......... (TIA for filling it in).

Edited July 2, 2011 by Xray

[BaalChatzaf]

Are you trying wriggle out, Ba'al? ;)

Since quite obviously you don't don't feel comfortable with the term "mandatory", which term would you suggest instead?

In Judaism, circumcision is ......... (TIA for filling it in).

No wriggling. I am a master of logic and you are not. The existence of an exception negates a general rule or universally quantified proposition.

Logic 101. Apparently you are ignorant of basic logic. You should learn it sometime.

I never wriggle. I am my normal literal minded aspergarian self.

Mandatory means required without exception.

Circumcision is done to males only if they are able to bear the procedure without risk to life, as I have explained to you several times.

Ba'al; Chatzaf

[Xray]

Are you trying wriggle out, Ba'al? ;)

Since quite obviously you don't don't feel comfortable with the term "mandatory", which term would you suggest instead?

In Judaism, circumcision is ......... (TIA for filling it in).

No wriggling. I am a master of logic and you are not. The existence of an exception negates a general rule or universally quantified proposition.

Logic 101. Apparently you are ignorant of basic logic. You should learn it sometime.

I never wriggle. I am my normal literal minded aspergarian self.

Mandatory means required without exception.

Circumcision is done to males only if they are able to bear the procedure without risk to life, as I have explained to you several times.

Ba'al; Chatzaf

Surely the master of logic will realize that the real issue is about a religious mandate, and that exceptions granted don't alter this fact.

I can imagine that the master of logic may feel somewhat uncomfortable in going there (for one can assume that you don't believe this commanding god actually exists - at least one can infer this from the many epistemological comments you have made here on OL about this issue).

So let's take a look at what it says verbatim in Genesis 17, 1-14:

Genesis 17, 1-14:

"You must circumcise every male."

From a Wikipedia article about mohel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohel

"For Jews, circumcision is mandatory, as it is prescribed in the Torah:"

And that's why I wrote in # 111 that your argumentation is highly mythological in origin because circumcision is mandatory in your religion.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Xray

[BaalChatzaf]

And that's why I wrote in # 111 that your argumentation is highly mythological in origin because circumcision is mandatory in your religion.

And by Rabbinic law circumcision is forbidden if it endangers the life of the male child. Rabbinic law trump Torah law.

No mohel will do a circumcision on a sickly or dying infant. No mohel will do a circumcision of a medical doctor forbids it.

In Judaism as it is practiced to today and since the time the Knesses Gadohl in Babylon codified oral law, Rabbinic law trumps torah law. That is about 2500 years, but who's counting?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[equality72521]

The practice of Circumcision is America became wide spread when a mad man who developed a tasteless cereal decided that it was a good way to stop masturbation. further he said that the circumcision should be "as painful and traumatic as possible". Its only a shame that we here in the US outlawed female circumcision (which the same madman advocated) but not male. Its my penis let me decide, if a woman doesnt want to have sex with me because I didnt cut off part of my dick... well too bad for her. Not only is it mutilation however some of the botched jobs (done by professionals) end in partial castration and death, this admittedly is rare, however the point still stands you dont have the RIGHT to make that kind of decision about another persons body, only they do. and "I think it looks better" is not a reason neither is your OPINION that you THINK its healthier there are billions of men the world over and throughout history who have been very healthy and have a foreskin.

GO CROW!

[BaalChatzaf]

The practice of Circumcision is America became wide spread when a mad man who developed a tasteless cereal decided that it was a good way to stop masturbation. further he said that the circumcision should be "as painful and traumatic as possible". Its only a shame that we here in the US outlawed female circumcision (which the same madman advocated) but not male. Its my penis let me decide, if a woman doesnt want to have sex with me because I didnt cut off part of my dick... well too bad for her. Not only is it mutilation however some of the botched jobs (done by professionals) end in partial castration and death, this admittedly is rare, however the point still stands you dont have the RIGHT to make that kind of decision about another persons body, only they do. and "I think it looks better" is not a reason neither is your OPINION that you THINK its healthier there are billions of men the world over and throughout history who have been very healthy and have a foreskin.

GO CROW!

You speak of Dr. Kellog, a Gentile or as I would say one of the Goyim. What did he know? The Jews have been doing it over 3000 years and when a mohel does it is painless. I have actually seen the male baby sleep through the circumcision. That is because it is done at age 8 days before the pain receptors in that part of the body have developed fully. The male child barely feels it at all. Do not let you view of the procedure be colored by the fact that a crazy Gentile advocated it and for the wrong reason too.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Selene]

Being a gentile is apparently a pejorative to you?

[BaalChatzaf]

Being a gentile is apparently a pejorative to you?

No, it is an indication of lack of experience with the procedure. Jews have been doing it for over 3000 years. The inexperienced Gentile, Mr. Kellog advocated the procedure in the late 19th century and for bad reasons at that. Jews invented infant circumcision. Gentiles, especially American, Christian Gentiles did not. Now, I ask, who knows more about the procedure?

Ba'al Chatzaf

[anthony]

Now, I ask, who knows more about the procedure?

Ba'al Chatzaf

More than you? Nobody, Bob.

Anything, but please spare me from reading that "smeg..." word, ever again.

(the relish in your tone, too.)

I didn't think I could hate an English word so much. Greek or Latin, whatever.