Selene Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 So BaalChatzaf, Since the scientific opinion does not seem to jive with yours, will you come out and just admit this is an aesthetic / religious preference?The medical evidence is clear. Circumcision (properly done) is long term beneficial to the circumcised male. Circs have a lower rate of cancer of the glans penis and less infection from STD. That is clear as can be. There is virtually no down side to the procedure (properly done in infancy) and great potential benefits. It is as beneficial (at least) and no more dangerous than the removal of warts, polyps or the surgical separation of webbed fingers and toes. And yes, I do find smegma (ugh!) ugly, disgusting and repulsive and even if I were brought up as an atheist or a heathen I would have my sons circumcised. Smegma (ugh!) is an Abomination. Fortunately for the uncircumcised, there exist females who have a taste for cottage cheese. There is simply no way to account for taste in a rational manner. Ba'al ChatzafIt's amazing how you allegedly argue. "The evidence is clear." No source, date, study just your mere assertion. I would not have accepted this from my rhetoric students.Read this and be stillhttp://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/.../full/118/1/385There are dozens more like this. Use Google to find them.Circumcision, properly done, has long term benefits and virtually no short term deficits. And it saves the male children from the Curse of Smegma (ugh!). Ba'al Chatzafa) "an increased recognition of the potential medical benefits of circumcision" by the general public.10(p978).B) "The explanation for this difference is that the published results of national statistical surveys represent only coded diagnoses obtained from birth centers; the reported figures do not include males who are circumcised at a later date for religious, medical, or personal reasons or who received newborn circumcision that was not coded.5,7" c) "With this appearance of more benefits and less risks,..."d) "Most recently, an international study from 5 different countries found that chlamydia infection is 3 times more common in female partners of uncircumcised men than in female partners of circumcised men.34"e) "In addition, particularly in the past 3 to 4 years, objective studies comparing sensitivity and sexual pleasure in circumcised versus uncircumcised men and evaluating measures of sexual pleasure before and after adult circumcision35–38 have concluded that no clinically significant difference exists between the circumcised and uncircumcised states. This result should come as no surprise in view of the complex psychological, neurologic, chemical, hormonal, and circulatory cascade involved in sexual activity." f) "According to both the current position of the AAP and the reference list provided in the task force report, the last relevant reference on the health benefits of circumcision occurred in 19981; all the many convincing studies published during the past 7 years have been ignored. It is time for the AAP to acknowledge the evidence and to catch up to the American public."This constitutes proof to you? Seems like lies, damned lies and statistics! Each of these are extremely weak and subject to a plethora of different interpretations. Why don't you just admit that your "defense" of circumcision is purely emotional and personal and stop beating a rapidly dying horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 OL posters; Is there any chance we could move on. It's just an idea. Please! I've heard all I want to hear about SMEGA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 OL posters; Is there any chance we could move on. It's just an idea. Please! I've heard all I want to hear about SMEGA.Smegma (ugh!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 OL posters; Is there any chance we could move on. It's just an idea. Please! I've heard all I want to hear about SMEGA.Smegma (ugh!)Yes, please move on he is hopeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Read this and be stillhttp://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/.../full/118/1/385There are dozens more like this. Use Google to find them.This is about one of the best cases of data massaging I have ever seen. Even so, the contention of the author is not that the AAP and other medical institutions are getting on board, but that the AAP is consistently wrong—for some darn reason. The author prefers not to speculate why the AAP wants to mislead the public, but makes it clear that it does.Regardless, it is clear from this article that the recommendation of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) is "an anticircumcision message."So no, I do not see this article as compelling evidence of anything except disagreement.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Sigh. Already people want to move on and my curiosity has yet to be satisfied. The closest anyone has come is Bob (Ba'al), with "cottage cheese". Are there no scientists among you who understand insatiable scientific curiosity? Am I going to have to go ask the nurses I know, who may be less intrepid and fearless about socially fearsome questions than I had hoped Objectivists might be, to find out more about what this substance is all about? C'mon, Bob, others -- color, texture, scent, viscosity, etc. -- just what are these gruesome details?Judith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbmaltzman Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Selene, I have met satire before. I just wasn't sure that what you posted was satire. Sorry. I can't always read delicate nuances in the printed word on a BBS. My bad. Pam, let me introduce you to the concept of satire. My point was you ladies jumping on the penis...oops there goes that satire again. It reminds me of the old joke of the blind man walking by the Fulton fish market in NY City in the early morning. He stops and tips his hat and says "Good morning ladies." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbmaltzman Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 (edited) Smegma is supposedly what the uncircumcised penis secretes under the foreskin. However, I have never seen this in person, having only seen pictures of uncircumcised men and their penises. It supposedly can have a texture similar to curds or cottage cheese. From what I've read and heard, it can acquire an unappetizing odor and appearance if not cleaned out regularly. At least one woman has told me that she found it unpleasant to perform oral sex on an uncircumcised man, although many other people argue that uncircumcised means better sex.Sigh. Already people want to move on and my curiosity has yet to be satisfied. The closest anyone has come is Bob (Ba'al), with "cottage cheese". Are there no scientists among you who understand insatiable scientific curiosity? Am I going to have to go ask the nurses I know, who may be less intrepid and fearless about socially fearsome questions than I had hoped Objectivists might be, to find out more about what this substance is all about? C'mon, Bob, others -- color, texture, scent, viscosity, etc. -- just what are these gruesome details?Judith Edited October 26, 2007 by Pam Maltzman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Selene, I have met satire before. I just wasn't sure that what you posted was satire. Sorry. I can't always read delicate nuances in the printed word on a BBS. My bad. Pam, let me introduce you to the concept of satire. My point was you ladies jumping on the penis...oops there goes that satire again. It reminds me of the old joke of the blind man walking by the Fulton fish market in NY City in the early morning. He stops and tips his hat and says "Good morning ladies."No problem. I just got aggressively edgy [hmm what else would you expect from a Dominant] with Ba'al irrationality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbmaltzman Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Oh, darn, everyone's moved on already! No more SMEGMA!!I think that the can of goat smegma was hilarious, just forgot to post about it before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Pam,Well, there is something to be said for pulling all the teeth (baby teeth and permanent) out of the young because some people are not taught how to brush their teeth properly. It has been proven scientifically beyond a shadow of a doubt that a person without teeth gets no cavities. This is in 100% of the cases tested.We also should cut off all fingernails and toenails, too, to avoid all those gross people who don't clip their nails and let dirt build up underneath them. Ewwww... I have read studies that people without fingernails and toenails do not get onychocryptosis or unguis incarnatus, but I would have to check to be sure. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbmaltzman Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Hi, Michael:Heh... well, I might get brain cancer someday! Why not just off with my head RIGHT NOW? It'd save me a lot of trouble later on! Seriously, though, I have typed up medical reports for women who had "prophylactic" removal of their breasts and ovaries. Another of the weird people I met in my Toastmaster Club days was a foreign fellow who was about as assimilatd and hip as the "Check Brothers" from the Saturday Night Live skits with Steve Martin (and I forget who else). This guy was always saying stuff such as "a genital should smell like a genital." His hygiene was more or less okay, but he was well known for his off-the-wall comments, mostly about sex. Anyway, the foreign guy, at some point, went back to the "old country" and bought himself a bride, who eventually fleeced him at divorce just as much, or as more, as American women are reputed to do, and also turned his kids against him. Pam Pam,Well, there is something to be said for pulling all the teeth (baby teeth and permanent) out of the young because some people are not taught how to brush their teeth properly. It has been proven scientifically beyond a shadow of a doubt that a person without teeth gets no cavities. This is in 100% of the cases tested.We also should cut off all fingernails and toenails, too, to avoid all those gross people who don't clip their nails and let dirt build up underneath them. Ewwww... I have read studies that people without fingernails and toenails do not get onychocryptosis or unguis incarnatus, but I would have to check to be sure. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Another of the weird people I met in my Toastmaster Club days was a foreign fellow who was about as assimilatd and hip as the "Check Brothers" from the Saturday Night Live skits with Steve Martin (and I forget who else). This guy was always saying stuff such as "a genital should smell like a genital." His hygiene was more or less okay, but he was well known for his off-the-wall comments, mostly about sex. Anyway, the foreign guy, at some point, went back to the "old country" and bought himself a bride, who eventually fleeced him at divorce just as much, or as more, as American women are reputed to do, and also turned his kids against him.Pam,LOL...Now you have my imagination running wild. I wonder if this guy's story is an indictment against the genital odor of American women in general. Also, we must presume that his foreign bride's genitals smelled the way he thought they should. So we may conclude that his experience is evidence that there is no causal relationship between genital smell and a woman's larcenous heart. (I don't see any causality with kids. They are always trouble irrespective of genital smell.) Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Anyway, overall Jews are doing the human thing better than most others.Brant,You sure got that right. This was the whole point of my thread Jewish power dominates at 'Vanity Fair'. The problem starts when this is not attributed to reason, but instead to Jewness.It boils down to being able to think:"If I do what they do, I can have what they have. They use reason."I shouldn't have to say it, but this is far better than:"I will never be able to have what they have. I was not born as one of them."MichaelSomehow I seem to have missed that whole thread. I'll read it soon. First, I have to try to make some money tomorrow.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I know I said before. Can we move on. Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbmaltzman Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) Michael,ROFLMAO... I don't think it is an indictment against American women, because I don't think the guy has ever had a DATE with any American woman. If anything, maybe he thought American women had too much of a soap-and-water fetish. I will, of course, assume that his wife smelled the way he thought she should--that is, up until the time she divorced him and cleaned him out. I have run into the fellow several times at libertarian events, over the intervening years (since Toastmasters), and most of his conversations have consisted of rants against his ex-wife. I understand why some men are very afraid of marriage and divorce because of the financial havoc it can wreak. Not a pretty sight. But foreign women are obviously not always less larcenous! One of our friends married a crazy, paranoid, controlling South American woman, and they are now in the process of separating. She ran through his nest egg when they married (in debt up to their eyeballs), and I'm afraid of what it will do to him when they divorce. He'd have dumped her a long time ago were it not for their son.I agree that kids are always trouble. But then, merely being alive, in general, is a passel of trouble! (I think there is some sort of Jewish/Yiddish proverb to that effect.)Pam Pam,LOL...Now you have my imagination running wild. I wonder if this guy's story is an indictment against the genital odor of American women in general. Also, we must presume that his foreign bride's genitals smelled the way he thought they should. So we may conclude that his experience is evidence that there is no causal relationship between genital smell and a woman's larcenous heart. (I don't see any causality with kids. They are always trouble irrespective of genital smell.) Michael Edited October 31, 2007 by Pam Maltzman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbmaltzman Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Chris, I didn't mean to offend you. But I thought the can of goat smegma was rolling-on-the-floor hilarious!I know I said before. Can we move on. Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbmaltzman Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Matus 1976, I forgot to say this before directly to you, but the can of goat smegma is rolling-on-the-floor hilarious. I just couldn't stop laughing! Ah, the wonders of photoshopping software! Either way, here is a nice gift for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I know I said before. Can we move on. Please!Chris,Now that's a cheesy request! We can move on, we can move off, we can move any way you like. Boogie-time! You obviously don't see what I do. After this theme develops to where it wants to go, you will say, "Woe is me. We have lost our innocence. I long for the good old days when the problem was only smegma." (Don't mind me. If I keep going, it only gets worse.)Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Michael; I'm sorry I think everything has been said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Q. What's the biggest drawback in the jungle?A. The foreskin of elephants. (Don't get me going, I just can't help it...)Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Q. How do you circumcise a whale?A. Send down four skin divers. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 One last shot (at least for now):A Jewish baby boy was born with only one eyelid. The mother, worried, asked the doctor, "What can be done about this?"The doctor replied, "After the circumcision, I will use the skin from down there to graft him a new eyelid.""Won’t it make him cockeyed?" she asked."No," said the doctor, "It will give him good foresight." Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Grieb Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 The last one was pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbmaltzman Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Hehe! Michael, thanks for the giggles! I'm going to sit down and transcribe now.One last shot (at least for now):A Jewish baby boy was born with only one eyelid. The mother, worried, asked the doctor, "What can be done about this?"The doctor replied, "After the circumcision, I will use the skin from down there to graft him a new eyelid.""Won’t it make him cockeyed?" she asked."No," said the doctor, "It will give him good foresight." Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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