Thomas Hobbes and the Cinema

[BaalChatzaf]

I found a movie which is really an illustration of Hobbe's -Leviathan-. Guess what it is. It is the science fiction movie -The Day the Earth Stood Still-. This motion picture came out around 1950 so many of you probably either never saw it or never heard of it.

Briefly: A flying saucer lands on the Mall in Washington D.C. Out comes a humanoid alien, Klaatu and his robot companion Gort. Klaatue is first shot by soldiers then taken to Walter Reed Hospital where his is held under guard. But he escapes so he can get to understand Earth folks better. He is eventually hunted down and killed but is brought back to life by his robot companion Gort.

What is Klaatu doing on Earth? He has come to deliver a warning to the people's of Earth not to go out into space in a warlike fashion or the people of the other planets will destroy earth. In the last five minutes of the movie Klaatu explains the basic theory of governance used by the people of the other planets. They, too, used to be warlike. So they invented a race of robots that would enforce law and order and keep the peace. Any individual or group of individuals that initiated force and violence would be zapped by the robots.

When I first saw this movie, I thought it had a libertarian message. Not so. It was Hobbesian. Gort and his fellow robots are nothing but Leviathan, a sovereign created by men to keep the peace and prevent the basic logic of anarchy from working. So it looks like Thomas Hobbes got his movie after all.

See http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043456/ for details on the original motion picture.

By the way, a remake is being released in 2008 with Keanu Reeves as Klaatu.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Chris Grieb]

Bob;

Why do they have remake Day? Why do they have to Reeves to play Klattu? What bimbo do have for the Pat Neal part?

The rest of your post is interesting and thought provoking.

[BaalChatzaf]

Bob;

Why do they have remake Day? Why do they have to Reeves to play Klattu? What bimbo do have for the Pat Neal part?

The rest of your post is interesting and thought provoking.

I asked myself the very same question. Except for some hyped up technical effects I do not see what the remake can bring to the story that the original did not. In fact, if they leave off the end, they will have destroyed the message that original motion picture conveyed.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Ellen Stuttle]

An anecdote about the making of the original "The Day the Earth Stood Still."

I have to preface by describing how I heard this. Pat Neal has long had a summer residence on Martha's Vineyard. My husband's brother-in-law has also for years (not as long as Pat) had a summer residence on the Vineyard. Larry's sister, Lynne, who had (she died this spring) a background in theater, became friends with Pat. Thus, the summer of 1994, on one of Larry's and my visits, Lynne arranged a small dinner party: she and Dwight, Larry and me, Pat and Pat's son and the son's girlfriend.

I forestall questions concerning what Pat said about "The Fountainhead" by responding in advance: not much. She suffered a major stroke when her son was an infant and still has spotty memory. She wasn't able that night to recall more than vague impressions of making "The Fountainhead."

In regard to "The Day the Earth Stood Still," however, she said she'd enjoyed making that a lot. But she'd had a problem when it came to the scene where she says in intense earnestness, pronouncing the words with emphasized spacing (I'm not sure if I have this quite right): "Gort, Klaatu veratu nictu." She kept cracking up and dissolving in giggles. She said that Michael Rennie became irritated with her, as take after take was shot, and asked if she was going to make a movie or behave like a giggly schoolgirl. She finally managed to keep a straight face and do the scene with the appearance of conviction.

Ellen

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Edited September 14, 2007 by Ellen Stuttle

[emb021]

I found a movie which is really an illustration of Hobbe's -Leviathan-. Guess what it is. It is the science fiction movie -The Day the Earth Stood Still-. This motion picture came out around 1950 so many of you probably either never saw it or never heard of it.

The Day the Earth Stood Still is a classic 50s SF movie. Anyone who has watched 'creature feature' type tv shows have seen it. Am sure AMC and such have shown it several times. I've seen in many times and I was born in the 60s. (you can also get this on DVD).

The movie is loosely based on a short story called "Farewell to the Master". There are some major differences between the movie and original story (big surprise). In the original story, Klaatu is killed early on (no resurrection), and we learn there is more to Gort then it hinted at in the movie. (he is the "Master" noted in the title).

[BaalChatzaf]

The movie is loosely based on a short story called "Farewell to the Master". There are some major differences between the movie and original story (big surprise). In the original story, Klaatu is killed early on (no resurrection), and we learn there is more to Gort then it hinted at in the movie. (he is the "Master" noted in the title).

Yup. It was a novelette written by Harry Bates. Gunt (that was the robot's name in the book) was the honcho. Klaatu was just his errand boy. I thought the story line in the movie was better than that of the book.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[John Dailey]

Baal:

~ Thanx for that background and, well....'fascinating' take on the whole story. "Leviathan"? Yes, it fits. Klaatu's species set up a group of techno-vetoers (aka 'Gort') over his species to prevent his species from the risk of anarchic idiocy, the risk presumably considered a 'flaw' inherent in his species (msg-hint: akin to ours?) In effect: a M-A-D set up in a suicidal fashion; if we 'war' on them, then we get blown up. Interesting perspective on how to handle 'the NIOF principle.' (Thing is: is Gort watching 'them' also?)

~ An interesting (and, methinks wishful 'God'-thinking) presumption there is that Gort's ilk has no flaws accidentally (nor maliciously added later) 'programed' in. Hmmm...Who's able to veto the vetoers?

~ Ntl, for its time, a bona-fide classic sci-fi story, especially in cinema.

LLAP

J:D

Edited September 15, 2007 by John Dailey

[John Dailey]

Ellen:

~ I can quite understand Pat O'Neal having a giggle prob in speaking a made-up gobbledegook fiction language, as though with some kind of intense 'meaning' (foreshadowing our nowadays 'TechnoBabble' in sci-fi.) Such acting requirements weren't the rage in Hollywood then. I can just picture her thoughts on 1st script-reading: "You've got to be kidding me! " (I wonder if she asked "What's my motivation?") --- However, paired with Rennie, she made the movie one class act all around.

Baal:

~ Keanu as Klaatu? Didn't he do enough as Neo? I picture the same 'stoic' personality style necessary, just as Rennie did it. Nothing stretching an actor's chops there, methinks. (Wonder what they'll do with 'Gort'?)

~ Too bad 're-makes' (some were ok, though; a couple even good; then there's PSYCHO) and sequels is the predominant view of 'creating' stories in Hollywood nowadays.

LLAP

J:D

[BaalChatzaf]

Ellen:

~ I can quite understand Pat O'Neal having a giggle prob in speaking a made-up gobbledegook fiction language, as though with some kind of intense 'meaning' (foreshadowing our nowadays 'TechnoBabble' in sci-fi.) Such acting requirements weren't the rage in Hollywood then. I can just picture her thoughts on 1st script-reading: "You've got to be kidding me! " (I wonder if she asked "What's my motivation?") --- However, paired with Rennie, she made the movie one class act all around.

Consider Klingonese. Tak-Cha! qPlah!

Baal:

~ Keanu as Klaatu? Didn't he do enough as Neo? I picture the same 'stoic' personality style necessary, just as Rennie did it. Nothing stretching an actor's chops there, methinks. (Wonder what they'll do with 'Gort'?)

~ Too bad 're-makes' (some were ok, though; a couple even good; then there's PSYCHO) and sequels is the predominant view of 'creating' stories in Hollywood nowadays.

LLAP

J:D

What I am afraid of, is that the political and philosophical message will be lost in the remake. It will be drowned out by technical effects. Maybe it won't happen, but I have my doubts. Look at it this way. Some kids got their first introduction to classical music from the music track of -The Lone Ranger-. Not a bad way to be introduced to classical music. Likewise some kids got their first introduction to Hobbes -Leviathan- in -The Day the Earth Stood Still-. Not a bad introduction.

Doing remakes is what passes for creativity these days, in the motion picture industry. Some of the best selling motion pictures were "remakes" of comic strips. For example -300-. I would love to see stories that were original in their screen form from the git-go.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[BaalChatzaf]

Yesterday some one told me he thought -The Day the Earth Stood Still- was a speculation. What if Jesus had a flying saucer and a killer robot?

Hoo Hah! That was a good one.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

There is another film from around that time that had an extremely high philosophical content for a science fiction film: The Incredible Shrinking Man.

When I saw the movie years ago, I was surprised that there was no happy ending, but instead the guy just keeps on dwindling and makes some comments about man and the universe. I saw the film at the time as a strong metaphor for the process of aging and gradually losing everything until death, but most critics I just now scanned saw it with other meanings. Here is a small selection of them (with links):

"... man’s tentative place in the universe..."

"An intriguing premise with at least some attempt at honoring rational explanations and the scientific method. Symbolical undertones relating to the zeitgeist. A dash of cosmic philosophy." AND "As with any film from the Freudian '50s, TISM offers at least one weird subtext. In this case, it's the feminization of Scott Carey. He's something of a misogynist in the face of his wife's devotion, and the fact that his new role is a disempowered one..."

"... the story is intelligently handled with an existentialist (this sort of thing changes the way a man thinks about life in general!) screenplay by Richard Matheson..."

"Loss of size doesn’t mean just loss of physical strength, although that’s a big a factor- it also means loss of status, of an essential adult identity."

"The movie takes on a "getting back to the primal self" aspect..."

The ending soliloquy is one of the most impressive parts of the film in terms of the philosophical impact. It is hard to shift gears and do something else at the end of the movie. You kinda want to sit there and think about WHAT IT ALL MEANS. Here is an interesting detail about the VO soliloquy from the Wikipedia article, The Incredible Shrinking Man:

The soliloquy which closes the film is not found in the book but was added to the script by the film's director, Jack Arnold.

The following text was definitely not mainstream for a monster flick (text of the soliloquy from IMDB). Apparently it did not even come from the book's author, but from the director instead.

[closing soliloquy narration]

Scott Carey: I was continuing to shrink, to become... what? The infinitesimal? What was I? Still a human being? Or was I the man of the future? If there were other bursts of radiation, other clouds drifting across seas and continents, would other beings follow me into this vast new world? So close - the infinitesimal and the infinite. But suddenly, I knew they were really the two ends of the same concept. The unbelievably small and the unbelievably vast eventually meet - like the closing of a gigantic circle. I looked up, as if somehow I would grasp the heavens. The universe, worlds beyond number, God's silver tapestry spread across the night. And in that moment, I knew the answer to the riddle of the infinite. I had thought in terms of man's own limited dimension. I had presumed upon nature. That existence begins and ends in man's conception, not nature's. And I felt my body dwindling, melting, becoming nothing. My fears melted away. And in their place came acceptance. All this vast majesty of creation, it had to mean something. And then I meant something, too. Yes, smaller than the smallest, I meant something, too. To God, there is no zero. I still exist!

It is impossible to see this film and not be affected by something in it.

Michael

[John Dailey]

MSK:

~ Yes, that was one quite unique film, even in the history of sf-cinema; it was as an sf story, for that matter, but, Richard Matheson was the Harlan Ellison (writer, not cultural pundit) of his time.

~ Re the movie's ending narration, yes, quite a perspective on 'man-in-the-universe': "I may be a mere speck getting smaller in this vastness with its dangers, but, *I* am still here!"

LLAP

J:D

[BaalChatzaf]

It is impossible to see this film and not be affected by something in it.

Michael

You are right. Every since I have seen -The Incredible Shrinking Man- and the first make of -The Fly- I have wanted to stomp on every spider I have seen. Yuck! What vile disgusting things they are!

Ba'al Chatzaf

[John Dailey]

"Help me, HELP ME-e-e-e... "

~ Then, there's also the :cat:

~ "Walk softly, and carry a big...pin," is what I learned as a kid, from those. --- And when I (as all kids) masochistically went to see TARANTULA and EARTH VS THE GIANT SPIDER, boy, were my pockets full (ouch!)

~ I think Hobbes et al are still outside our theatre waiting to get back in, btw. (Now, what can us MST3000 fans do with those guys?)

~ Indeed, getting back to TISM, what 'philosopher' might seem most apropos there?

LLAP

J:D

Edited September 17, 2007 by John Dailey

[John Dailey]

~ Though I'm seguing here (ok: 'hijacking') off of Baal's comment about kids intro to 'classical' music, lemme say this:

~ Precisely as he described, *my* intro-INTEREST to such was exactly Clayton Moore's TV-show, THE LONE RANGER with its William Tell's 'Overture' (I was barely familiar with the radio-show, but...); then there was the TV's 'Mobilgas' commercial with the animated (quite unusual for it's time) 'flying red horse' (think Pegasus, but, in b&w) to the strains of Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" (neither identified by moi 'till years later.) Finally, I caught Disney's original (with the un-edited ['censored'?] 'pickaninny' [no, I'm not talking chess ; check it out] in Beethoven's 'Pastoral' section) FANTASIA, with its Bach, Beet, Stravinsky, M.P.Mussorgsky, et al comprising it all. Exposure to this Disney started my interest in 'classical' music...especially its sources.

~ Shades of the primary question in EQUUS...

LLAP

J:D

[BaalChatzaf]

~ Though I'm seguing here (ok: 'hijacking') off of Baal's comment about kids intro to 'classical' music, lemme say this:

~ Precisely as he described, *my* intro-INTEREST to such was exactly Clayton Moore's TV-show, THE LONE RANGER with its William Tell's 'Overture' (I was barely familiar with the radio-show, but...); then there was the TV's 'Mobilgas' commercial with the animated (quite unusual for it's time) 'flying red horse' (think Pegasus, but, in b&w) to the strains of Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" (neither identified by moi 'till years later.) Finally, I caught Disney's original (with the un-edited ['censored'?] 'pickaninny' [no, I'm not talking chess ; check it out] in Beethoven's 'Pastoral' section) FANTASIA, with its Bach, Beet, Stravinsky, M.P.Mussorgsky, et al comprising it all. Exposure to this Disney started my interest in 'classical' music...especially its sources.

~ Shades of the primary question in EQUUS...

LLAP

J:D

And don't forget the theme of CAPTAIN VIDEO, -The Flying Dutchman- also by Wagner.

Every time I listen to The Ride of the Valkyrie I think of Elmer Fudd singing "kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit.."

Looney Tunes did its share to bring classical music to a mass audience. How many times have the barn animals gotten together an presented the Hungarian Overtures of Franz Liszt?

Ba'al Chatzaf

Edited September 19, 2007 by BaalChatzaf

[John Dailey]

Baal:

~ Regarding WB's Looney Tunes, yes. Many an old (am I dating myself here?) morning-cartoon-fest Saturday Matinee at the local-movie-theatre was filled with those (but, c'mon: Elmer's and Bugs' stint at Wagner was WAY later; but Liszt: yes. He did predominate [sylvester and Tweety? Bugs and ?])

~ I was a TOM CORBETT: SPACE CADET (15-min daily show) fan and a SPACE PATROL ('Buzz Corey' and 'Happy'--1/2 hr Sat-morns) fan, but...never caught (unfortunately) CAPTAIN VIDEO. Must've been my locale then, in the days of 3-7 channels.

~ I miss TOM (sniff...)

LLAP

J:D

[Steve Gagne]

not to mention the clarinet line from stravinsky's rites of spring (third movement) being used as the theme music for the twilight zone

[John Dailey]

Steve:

~ Are you talking the endings of 1st-Season or the intros to the later ones? I'm not all THAT familiar with Strav.

~ If not the 1st, I gotta ask here: I've loved that slow, semi-ominous music used in the 1st-Season's credit-endings (dropped in later seasons), and can't find who did it or what it was from. Anyone know?

LLAP

J:D

[BaalChatzaf]

Bob;

Why do they have remake Day? Why do they have to Reeves to play Klattu? What bimbo do have for the Pat Neal part?

The rest of your post is interesting and thought provoking.

Keano Reeves is perfect for the part. He has a facial structure remniscent of Michael Rene and a somewhat fey persona. This version should even rock more than the original. I read somewhere that the plot twist in Harry Bate's novel -Farewell to the Master- on which both motion pictures are based may have the end plot twist.

We will know on December 12 of 2008 -- The Day the Earth Stood Still-.

Gort! Deycloto brosko!

Klaatu barado nicto!

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Barbara Branden]

I've seen The Day the Earth Stood Stilll several times, and I see nothing significantly Hobbseian about it. Note that it was released in 1951, when the Berlin Airlift had only recently ended, and it had been learned that the secrets of the atom bomb had been passed to Russia by American and other traitors. Russia was staging nuclear tests, threatening universal mayhem, and continuing to crush Eastern Europe under its boot. With good reason, the world was fearful that mankind, now armed with atomic weapons, might be destroyed by the reckless initiation of deadly force..

Ba'al wrote:"Gort and his fellow robots are nothing but Leviathan, a sovereign created by men to keep the peace and prevent the basic logic of anarchy from working."

I see the robots as simply a science-fictionalized metaphor for a libertarian state; that is, they have a single function, which is to prevent and/or to punish any initiation of force. There is no reference or implication about man in Hobbes' "state of nature" as being endowied with a license to do anything, or to life without an authoritarian state (which is not what the robots represent) as being "nasty, brutish, and short".

I hope this film is not remade. What Hollywood does, for the most part, when it remakes a classic, is to repeat everything about the classic except what made it good. I'd hate to see this done with The Day the Earth Stood Still.

Barbara

[BaalChatzaf]

I hope this film is not remade. What Hollywood does, for the most part, when it remakes a classic, is to repeat everything about the classic except what made it good. I'd hate to see this done with The Day the Earth Stood Still.

Barbara

Too late. Dec 12 is The Day The Earth Stood Still. I share your lack of optimism about the remake. But, we shall see.... . I am going to see the movie anyway.

Gort! Deklaatu Brosko! B'ringa!

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Brant Gaede]

I hope this film is not remade. What Hollywood does, for the most part, when it remakes a classic, is to repeat everything about the classic except what made it good. I'd hate to see this done with The Day the Earth Stood Still.

Barbara

Too late. Dec 12 is The Day The Earth Stood Still. I share your lack of optimism about the remake. But, we shall see.... . I am going to see the movie anyway.

Gort! Deklaatu Brosko! B'ringa!

Ba'al Chatzaf

You sure do have a romantic view of science fiction movies.

--Brant

[Reidy]

I expect the remake to be nasty and brutish but not nearly short enough.

[Ellen Stuttle]

I expect the remake to be nasty and brutish but not nearly short enough.

Excellent, Peter. ;-)

Ellen

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