I just started Atlas Shrugged

[atlashead]

$

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

AH,

Go for it.

You are in for a treat.

 

Michael

[atlashead]

Not my story.  I gave Hank Rearden his start$

[atlashead]

But i have to leave.  Hank rearden's name is Patrick Spelling

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

AH,

I misunderstood.

I thought you were starting to read Atlas Shrugged.

Going from your posts, I have no idea what you are talking about.

And without any context, I am not curious.

You really need to learn how to write if you want discussion.

Michael

[Anti-Communist]

On 11/13/2023 at 12:30 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

AH,

I misunderstood.

I thought you were starting to read Atlas Shrugged.

Going from your posts, I have no idea what you are talking about.

And without any context, I am not curious.

You really need to learn how to write if you want discussion.

Michael

Yo, Mike

I don't want discussion, I want others to read and

there slightly alter their mental and actionate habits.

Just Say'in

I'll be constantly searching for quality comments to move

to the (readable) top of the Long Thread forum.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

23 hours ago, Anti-Communist said:

Yo, Mike

I don't want discussion, I want others to read and

there slightly alter their mental and actionate habits.

Just Say'in

AC,

Just to be clear, OL is a discussion forum, not a preacher's pulpit.

Before you go about trying to rule and modify others, I would check a premise or two.

Starting with this.

If you do not respect the faculty of volition of your readers, why should they respect yours?

Hmmmm?...

 

Audiences are earned, not decreed--not unless you are the one in power. Then you get audiences of insiders and people who are afraid.

Try to ignore human nature without a gun or some form of coercion. You won't get an audience. Not one of people who show up because they want to.

Human nature is the reality key to earn an audience. Not whim.

 

If you disagree, I'm observing. I want to see how you make an audience.

 

Michael

[Marc]

On 2/11/2024 at 10:08 AM, Anti-Communist said:

Yo, Mike

I don't want discussion, I want others to read and

there slightly alter their mental and actionate habits.

Just Say'in

I'll be constantly searching for quality comments to move

to the (readable) top of the Long Thread forum.

Hey Fidel, 

Socialism or Death, right? 

[Anti-Communist]

Many things discussed, what should be discussed, what is most important?

At least in the top 1,000 subjects, The Yenan Way - created by Chairman Mao.

Simple and ignorable advice:  First be a master of copying and pasting.

 

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

AC,

Yennan is good to learn. So are struggle sessions if your thing is Mao.

I have yet to read The Little Red Book, but I am thinking of getting a copy.

However, before copying and pasting, I promote thinking for yourself.

Observation. Reason. Paying attention to your gut and emotions. Things like that. 

Among the top 1000 important topics, I would put surviving, and especially surviving invasions and attacks as number one. To repeat, if you do not exist, there are no other top 999 topics.

But then I would put thinking for yourself, not as copy and pasted rules and logic, but as a chosen skill that is constantly studied, implemented and split-tested to death. Yes, Ayn Rand can be one of the ways to study that, but too many miss the message, copy and paste her, and they are done. They leave out developing the skill part and applying the skills to different situations. So I do not consider studying her works (or any religion or ideology or philosophy) per se to be as high up as studying one's own independent thinking. 

Then there is the rest. And even then, I am a far bigger fan of the Founding Documents of the USA and the thinking around them than I am of anything by Chairman Mao. I would study him after I got this other stuff down, or at least understood in broad strokes.

Michael

[Anti-Communist]

The reason I brought up the Yenan Way is to alert "Free-Traders" to the fact that Chairman Mao created a specific plan to defeat the West.

Those who are born to think for themselves don't need much goading to do that, if any.

What Civilizations need is a populace that feels safe from the power of other's.

So they rise as a person and not descend.

Do you seriously advocate being silent to youngsters and about Ayn's quotation on Art that I quoted?

Visit Paul Cooijmans website.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

5 minutes ago, Anti-Communist said:

Do you seriously advocate being silent to youngsters and about Ayn's quotation on Art that I quoted?

AC,

Who are you talking to?

I don't understand where this comment fits in the discussion. 

Did a ghost appear and start posting ghost posts or something?

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

On 2/11/2024 at 9:08 AM, Anti-Communist said:

I don't want discussion, I want others to read and

there slightly alter their mental and actionate habits.

AC,

If this is what you are referring to, you posted this as you.

And you are not Ayn Rand.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Or was it this on another thread?

41 minutes ago, Anti-Communist said:

"Art is the indispensable medium for the communication of a moral ideal."

page 21 of "The Romantic Manifesto" by Ayn Rand

In the running for most important quotation.

I'm having trouble tracking.

I need to change the batteries on my crystal ball.

 

Besides, I prefer clear prose to guessing and insinuations.

Michael

[Anti-Communist]

Michael,

Where the comment fits into the discussion, is that you seem to think "People thinking for themselves." is very important.

I suggest that "thinking for yourself" is not truly basic.

The people that think for themselves have courage, the courage to be independent.

Do people "think" themselves into being courageous?

Some people think a lot, they think "I can make a lot of money doing business with the Chinese."

Why should they continue to think after they have arrived at a very pleasant conclusion?

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, Anti-Communist said:

Why should they continue to think after they have arrived at a very pleasant conclusion?

AC,

Is that your case?

Did you stop thinking for yourself and have, instead, arrived at a very pleasant conclusion?

  

 

(Sorry. You walked right into that one.  )

Michael

[Anti-Communist]

I don't mind walking into it, didn't even break my skin.

I suppose you have alerted your friends and asked them to alert their friends, you know, the ones who are invested in China one way or another, that Chairman Mao in the 1950s created "The Yenan Way".

Of course if you pressed the issue, "have you read this essay" that one written by a professional not an amateur.

You might end up with less friends, i.e. be the shunk at the dinner party.

For the readers who don't understand "The Yenan Way" as I understand it, is the "Way" created by Chairman Mao in the 1950s of promoting Marxist-Leninism with a process more effectual than older Marxist-Leninist thinking, to wit, make an alliance with business-people, all those whose main concern in life is money-making, don't announce who you really are as a person or as a political operative.   Use your alliance with the dupe to gain positions in society especially but not limited to political positions.

Then when the time is ripe, ( our leaders will tell you when ) KILL the dupe, then we the Communists will have won.

A much better plan than announcing who you are and what you intend to do.

As a plan it has worked beautifully.

So, Michael, are you willing to risk being the shunk at the dinner-party?

AC

 

 

 

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

12 minutes ago, Anti-Communist said:

So, Michael, are you willing to risk being the shunk at the dinner-party?

AC,

What's a shunk?

 

It looks like I stepped on a callous.

I wonder. Are your post and suppositions a result of you thinking for yourself or... what?

I'm not being hostile. I'm curious. 

If you don't think for yourself, what is that all about?

If you do think for yourself, what is that all about?

I'm not sure who I'm talking to.

 

And why on earth do you keep insinuating that I have something to do with the CCP? 

I don't, other than as an enemy. (I like the lao baixing, though.)

I can turn this around, too. Are you working for the CCP doing an Yenan thing?

Hmmmm?...

See how all this is bullshit?

I suggest we try ideas. However, discussing ideas is for people who think, not follow.

Michael

[Anti-Communist]

So, are you thinking you have no obligation to point out to your friends that the Yenan Way exists?

A fact of reality: Chairman Mao created the Yenan Way, are you disputing its existence? Are you disputing its relevance?

The last thing the CCP would like to have happen is an awakening in the West to the Yenan Way, has Fox News ever mentioned it?  Has any Objectivist Forum or Organization ever mentioned it?

How could you think I'm on the side of the CCP??

[Anti-Communist]

Skunk not shunk, my bad.

Central Intelligence Agency
Buckley remained at Yale working as a Spanish instructor from 1947 to 1951[40] before being recruited into the CIA like many other Ivy League alumni at that time; he served for two years, including one year in Mexico City working on political action for E. Howard Hunt,[41] who was later imprisoned for his part in the Watergate scandal. The two officers remained lifelong friends.[42] In a November 1, 2005, column for National Review, Buckley recounted that while he worked for the CIA, the only CIA employee he knew was Hunt, his immediate boss. While stationed in Mexico, Buckley edited The Road to Yenan, a book by Peruvian author Eudocio Ravines.[43] After leaving the CIA, he worked as an editor at The American Mercury in 1952, but left after perceiving newly emerging anti-Semitic tendencies in the magazine.[44]

The Yenan way
by Ravines, Eudocio
https://archive.org/details/yenanway0000ravin

 

downloadable

Don't you find it rather suspicious that such a heavy-weight as Buckley was involved in the Yenan Way?  What a help to Nixon, who needed a clear path to open the door to China.

How's that working out for you?

How do you think it will work out in the future?

Whatever you think, I'm rather sure intellectual objectivists paved at least part of the way towards making "Free Trade" the American policy.

Or am I wrong about that?

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

2 hours ago, Anti-Communist said:

So, are you thinking you have no obligation to point out to your friends that the Yenan Way exists?

A fact of reality: Chairman Mao created the Yenan Way, are you disputing its existence? Are you disputing its relevance?

AC,

No to all.

(Except for that "obligation" idea you snuck in. Who would control such obligations and dole them out? Lemme see... Hmmmm... Why you, of course! How's that for a thought?  )

 

I have another idea. I think for me and you think for you.

How's that?

I am clear in what I say and mean.

I come with years of experience doing it, and against trolls far more competent than you are showing to be. 

I don't need you--or anybody--to interpret my thoughts for me.

If you don't understand something about my thinking, I am happy to elaborate. And you are free to disagree.

2 hours ago, Anti-Communist said:

How could you think I'm on the side of the CCP??

The same way you insinuate I am on the side of the CCP.

This is called trolling.

Back and forth trolling.

You stop trolling and I will--that is, unless you keep it up too long, I get bored, and shut it down.

Once again, I highly suggest ideas on a philosophy discussion forum. 

I welcome you here, warmly, but not to troll.

 

You want to talk about Yenan? Well talk about Yenan. Explain it in plain English to those who don't know about it and see what you can do to get them interested other than point fingers at them and bitch.

Do you want to learn how to get people interested? And you are embarrassed because you don't know how? It's obvious to me you don't know how. But I can point you to many sources of instruction by masters. Hell, I can tell you a lot of persuasion stuff myself just off the top of my head. There are entire sections here on OL about it.

 

Back to ideas.

Here's a related idea I see you do not mention. It's not just Yenan that is missing in discussions in the West (and in Rand, for that matter).

It's Mao in general.

In the places I visit constantly (James Lindsay, Steve Bannon and so on), all the time they say there has been a whitewash of Mao and Chinese communism in general in the West. This goes all the way back to the founding of the CCP. In particular, nothing at all is taught about Mao in schools and the press does not mention him.

So this issue is bigger than Yenan and the canvas is larger than O-Land. It's everything Mao in the West. Yenan is just one item among many governing the infiltration and takeover of other countries by the CCP. 

And, if you want to know the truth, I welcome discussion about Yenan here on OL. More people need to know about it. I hope you find your communication legs and manage to do a decent job of interesting people.

As to form of communication, there is one thing that is irritating me. And it's on the light side on communication, not the serious side. I like banter, but I detest trolling.

Besides, you will never get people interested in Yenan by trolling them. That doesn't work as intellectual stimulation. In fact, it does the opposite. 

 

We'll do well under 2 conditions:

1. If you want it, and
2. You stop trolling.

It's up to you.

Michael

[Anti-Communist]

It is possible I suppose, that I actually do possess some of the mental attitudes of a troll.

AC

 

[atlashead]

I get the message

>I am worse than peter keating

>For a moment i was Peter Kretin

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

On 2/15/2024 at 7:10 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Here's a related idea I see you do not mention. It's not just Yenan that is missing in discussions in the West (and in Rand, for that matter).

It's Mao in general.

In the places I visit constantly (James Lindsay, Steve Bannon and so on), all the time they say there has been a whitewash of Mao and Chinese communism in general in the West. This goes all the way back to the founding of the CCP. In particular, nothing at all is taught about Mao in schools and the press does not mention him.

So this issue is bigger than Yenan and the canvas is larger than O-Land. It's everything Mao in the West.

 

I am cross-posting the following interview because this issue is important.

And, please, this is not meant to detract from Yenan, That's important, too.

But watch the interview below.

On 2/26/2024 at 6:44 PM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Episode 77.

Xi Van Fleet.

Michael

 

Xi Van Fleet doesn't just talk theory. She illustrates theory with her lived experience. She is super-clear.

This lady lived under Maoism and she points to what is happening in America as the same thing as what happened when Mao took over China and indoctrinated the population. 

She says the reason for Mao's techniques is to make a power-grab. Nothing more. No ideology. No social virtue. No concern for humanity. It's all about power.

 

I got her book below in audiobook form. I have not yet read it, but I look forward to it.

Mao's America: A Survivor's Warning by Xi Van Fleet (referral link).

 

So how does Ayn Rand fit into all of this? I think Rand's notion that philosophy moves the world is too broad in scope. Philosophy is ONE of the components that moves the world, not the single main one. I now believe there is a small group of main ones based on human nature and philosophy is among them.

Mao knew human nature. He used force wedded to a psychological brainwashing system. This system was not based on philosophy, although it used a kind of Marxist philosophy as a storefront. But that was not the main deal to consolidate power. The psychological part of Mao's system was based on specific techniques that screw with human nature like the struggle session (an overtly evil form of status manipulation that includes peer pressure, unjust public accusations, and so on). Also, he made a strict division of people into two categories, the approved and the no-good. He used indoctrination education for the young, and crowd control techniques for the mature, and lots of propaganda for both to make people swallow that.

On the force end, Mao did the obvious by eliminating people who challenged his power. Or he sent them to reeducation camps. In other words, he used force to take civilian opponents off the playing field. But he used other force tactics. For example, Mao let gangs he nurtured take over China as he weakened the police. At a certain moment, normal people just wanted the chaos and violence to stop.

At that point, Mao took power. And the gangs? Oh, he got rid of them. He said they disappointed him and he sent them to work on farms. Or he just killed off the more difficult individuals.

 

This is happening in America right now. And, for as much as I hate to admit it, there is very little in Ayn Rand's works and ideas that present a practical form of combating this--as it is happening. It's OK to use terms like "intellectual ammunition," but what good is that ammunition if it allows the bad guys to take over because it does not address what they are doing in the way they are doing it?

I fully agree with Rand on the big picture, freedom, individualism, reason, capitalism, and so on as components of the ideal. I do not see where this works, though, when the guns come out against innocents and super-competent indoctrination and brainwashing techniques kick into high gear.

Watch Xi Van Fleet's interview with Tucker or read her book. You will see what I mean.

 

I want to make it clear that this is not either-or with Rand. It is taking the good part of Rand and adding to it. 

We either do that, meaning pay attention to people like Xi Van Fleet and others, or we get used to the taste of the CCP's boot-leather.

Just ask the J6 prisoners if you don't believe it. The propaganda against them and their imprisonment are straight-up Mao techniques.

Michael