Donald Trump

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, Guyau said:

Haven't been more ashamed of a big block of my countrymen since three-quarters of them favored our invasion of Iraq. How grotesque.

Hillary, my last hope for the republic against this dangerous puffery and empty personality cult.

Stephen,

I'm not going to make light of this sentiment. Instead, I want to invite you to consider something I had to go through.

Back when Barack Obama was elected, I remember thinking to myself, if that many people are resonating with him, he is touching them on some level. And since I am not a believer in condemning large swaths of people without trying to understand what they see and do from their eyes, I set my judgement aside and tried to look at Obama from their eyes. What I saw wasn't nearly as bad as the storyline in my head said it was. So I said at the time (here on OL) that I didn't think Obama was a bad man, that he was trying to be good in the form he understood it.

I remember being roasted for saying that, including by Barbara at the time.

So I went into silence. However, just by being silent, that did not change my mind. And this point--ironically about having good thoughts on Obama even as I was highly critical of him--has stayed with me, which is one of the reasons I understood Trump's appeal so early in this election cycle. What's more, I didn't think the people who supported Obama did so because they were less than human or trying to do evil or shameless whatevers. I realized they were trying to be good in the form they understood it--that Obama reflected this wish to be good. There were elements within him that were good-worthy so to speak--at least to the people who thought the same as he and saw them.

Then I went back to my standpoint and I saw there was some common ground with many things I think are good.

As you grieve and condemn others as shameful, I invite you to consider this perspective if you like. If you don't, that's cool, too.

Ask yourself the same question I did back then. How can it be that so many people see good where I see shame? 

Part of the answer I came to is that people who had been silent were suddenly manifesting their sense of goodness because finally an opportunity appeared that reflected it. That goodness never went away. It was just silent. With Obama's appeal, I had mistaken their silence for agreement with the way I saw the world--according to the storyline in my head so to speak.. 

I assure you this all applies to Trump supporters and this is part of the hook that will increase his support massively up to the election. You don't have to agree with him to see this, but at least if you see it in the manner I do, you can understand it without condemning this beautiful world and country of ours as evil.

America is a country that can be led by Barack Obama and Donald Trump--based on people trying to be good. That is an amazing quality. You and I both are privileged to live here. I know this on a deep level because I was an expatriate for over 30 years.

If none of this resonates with you, just ignore it.

Except this.

I feel you...

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Now for an expression of pure joy about Trump's win in Indiana.

This even hit Real Clear Politics Video.

Like Trump or not like Trump, if a man can cause this much joy in others, it's a mistake to dismiss it.

I love these girls.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

And the beat goes on...

Prediction: Kasich picks Fiorina as his VP.

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) May 4, 2016

   

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

1 hour ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Stephen,

I'm not going to make light of this sentiment. Instead, I want to invite you to consider something I had to go through.

Back when Barack Obama was elected, I remember thinking to myself, if that many people are resonating with him, he is touching them on some level. And since I am not a believer in condemning large swaths of people without trying to understand what they see and do from their eyes, I set my judgement aside and tried to look at Obama from their eyes. What I saw wasn't nearly as bad as the storyline in my head said it was. So I said at the time (here on OL) that I didn't think Obama was a bad man, that he was trying to be good in the form he understood it.

I remember being roasted for saying that, including by Barbara at the time.

So I went into silence. However, just by being silent, that did not change my mind. And this point--ironically about having good thoughts on Obama even as I was highly critical of him--has stayed with me, which is one of the reasons I understood Trump's appeal so early in this election cycle. What's more, I didn't think the people who supported Obama did so because they were less than human or trying to do evil or shameless whatevers. I realized they were trying to be good in the form they understood it--that Obama reflected this wish to be good. There were elements within him that were good-worthy so to speak--at least to the people who thought the same as he and saw them.

Then I went back to my standpoint and I saw there was some common ground with many things I think are good.

As you grieve and condemn others as shameful, I invite you to consider this perspective if you like. If you don't, that's cool, too.

Ask yourself the same question I did back then. How can it be that so many people see good where I see shame? 

Part of the answer I came to is that people who had been silent were suddenly manifesting their sense of goodness because finally an opportunity appeared that reflected it. That goodness never went away. It was just silent. With Obama's appeal, I had mistaken their silence for agreement with the way I saw the world--according to the storyline in my head so to speak.. 

I assure you this all applies to Trump supporters and this is part of the hook that will increase his support massively up to the election. You don't have to agree with him to see this, but at least if you see it in the manner I do, you can understand it without condemning this beautiful world and country of ours as evil.

America is a country that can be led by Barack Obama and Donald Trump--based on people trying to be good. That is an amazing quality. You and I both are privileged to live here. I know this on a deep level because I was an expatriate for over 30 years.

If none of this resonates with you, just ignore it.

Except this.

I feel you...

Michael

I get the impression from this you don't really understand what is going on--in this country or the world. Trump doesn't either, in different ways. Trump is a loose cannon on a ship in a storm of variable intensities. He does have, quite naturally, his share of American culturianisms--the beginning and end of his attractiveness to some and repulsiveness to others. That's hardly the whole story of who he's interacting with and why, just the main point--IMHO.

--Brant

[Roger Bissell]

3 hours ago, Guyau said:

Haven't been more ashamed of a big block of my countrymen since three-quarters of them favored our invasion of Iraq. How grotesque.

Hillary, my last hope for the republic against this dangerous puffery and empty personality cult.

 

Stephen, out of deep personal respect for your mind and values, I say to you not that "I feel you...," but that I hear you, I understand you, and I agree with you.

REB

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

47 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

I get the impression from this you don't really understand what is going on--in this country or the world. Trump doesn't either, in different ways. 

Brant,

And that is exactly what I mean by not being seen.

Do you see us now?

Or do you prefer to keep imagining you see the world as it is and we don't?

Michael

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Brant,

btw - Evil does exist and must be contained and/or exterminated when uncovered. I believe that.

I just have a longer measurement to get to evil than many. That's why I see good often when others see evil.

(To me, for example, chopping innocent people's heads off is evil, but boasting a bit too much--in itself--is not.)

Besides, excessive hatred gives you strokes and heart attacks you might otherwise avoid. So my approach is very selfish.

Michael

[Jonathan]

3 hours ago, Guyau said:

.

Haven't been more ashamed of a big block of my countrymen since three-quarters of them favored our invasion of Iraq. How grotesque.

Hillary, my last hope for the republic against this dangerous puffery and empty personality cult.

 

Wow, so Hillary's dangerous puffery and empty personality cult has been effective enough to fool you into believing that its not dangerous puffery and empty personality cult? Heh. Or that she's somehow more competent and virtuous than Trump in any way? Yikes! Political naïveté!

But then again, you're the single-issue voter type, aren't you? You gleefully helped to impose Obama on the lesser countrymen whom you're ashamed of and who are so far beneath you, no? And you did so in order to receive a form of recognition from government that the government shouldn't be involved in in the first place?

How grotesque.

J

[KorbenDallas]

Good video on the Trump campaign pivot after last night's win:

Trump emerges as 'presumptive' GOP nominee, turns focus to November

 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

12 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

 

13 hours ago, Robert Campbell said:

Meanwhile, cheerleading for your guy has instantly elevated Ann Coulter to one of the greatest minds in the history of our species.

Robert,

Nah... She's a very good author (sourced as all hell--look at one of her books if you don't believe me, it might surprise you). And she's a wonderful satirical wordsmith. I've always believed that even when she supports someone I don't.

Recently she's become a trooper for Trump, which I welcome. Don't forget, this is a campaign where people compete to win. You tend to align with people who support your guy. There's nothing wrong with that. 

 

Here is a video of Ann Coulter on Bill Maher's show dated June 19, 2015.

All you need to watch is the first 15 seconds. Here's a transcript:

MAHER: Ann, which Republican candidate has the best chance of winning the election?

COULTER: Of the declared ones right now? Donald Trump.

AUDIENCE AND GUESTS: Sudden loud guffawing, whooping, shrieking, yukking it up, tears streaming down their eyes.

I have supported Trump openly since July.

I lived this back then and all the rest since.

Others may not remember what it felt like, but seeing the video brought back the memories. In my own way, I lived this.

As to whether Ann Coulter is "one of the greatest minds in the history of our species," I'm sure she is not. But she saw what I saw back when everyone else was not only blind to it, they were snorting and sniggering about it.

I don't hear any of those folks laughing anymore.

Michael

[PDS]

3 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

And the beat goes on...

 

   

Michael

This is actually quite funny.  

And a little gloating of this kind doesn't hurt anybody.   

[PDS]

14 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Here is a video of Ann Coulter on Bill Maher's show dated June 19, 2015.

All you need to watch is the first 15 seconds. Here's a transcript:

MAHER: Ann, which Republican candidate has the best chance of winning the election?

COULTER: Of the declared ones right now? Donald Trump.

AUDIENCE AND GUESTS: Sudden loud guffawing, whooping, shrieking, yukking it up, tears streaming down their eyes.

I have supported Trump openly since July.

I lived this back then and all the rest since.

Others may not remember what it felt like, but seeing the video brought back the memories. In my own way, I lived this.

As to whether Ann Coulter is "one of the greatest minds in the history of our species," I'm sure she is not. But she saw what I saw back when everyone else was not only blind to it, they were snorting and sniggering about it.

I don't hear any of those folks laughing anymore.

Michael

Very prescient of her.  

But Michael please note the two Establishment Types she named as her first choice.   Kinda undercuts the Us vs. Them narrative you are growing so fond of...

[MereMortal]

Incidentally, why do many people still think Clinton is nearly invincible against Trump?  Trump just trounced Cruz in Indiana.  Clinton just lost again to the aging socialist dope Sanders (sorry, couldn't resist).  

What is Clinton's appeal?  I don't see it.  

[Selene]

14 minutes ago, MereMortal said:

Incidentally, why do many people still think Clinton is nearly invincible against Trump?  Trump just trounced Cruz in Indiana.  Clinton just lost again to the aging socialist dope Sanders (sorry, couldn't resist).  

What is Clinton's appeal?  I don't see it.  

She is the weakest and most beatable candidate the Democrats have put up in four (4) decades...

A...

[william.scherk]

13 minutes ago, Selene said:

She is the weakest and most beatable candidate the Democrats have put up in four (4) decades...

Sez who?

[Brant Gaede]

I do about the "weakest." However, about the Reps, Trump is the weakest opponent over several decades of weak opponents. Now it's up to Trump to give the lie to this general consensus. Can Trump beat Clinton with a stick or does he have some other trick(s)?

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

1 hour ago, PDS said:

This is actually quite funny.  

And a little gloating of this kind doesn't hurt anybody.   

He's "afflicted."

--Frank

[Brant Gaede]

2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Brant,

And that is exactly what I mean by not being seen.

Do you see us now?

Or do you prefer to keep imagining you see the world as it is and we don't?

Michael

Oh, I see the world as it is. It's the next iteration I'm concerned about and don't know about.

And I'm going to do something about it, too. I'm going with the operative assumption Trump will beat Clinton and in surprising ways. If you look at the projected electoral college map with the standard red state blue state divide with Ohio and Florida as toss ups, it's possible Trump could cut into blues and Clinton not cut into the reds. I'm talking about disaffected Democratic blue-collar workers.

Qua this election I'm completely out of the loop, however, but qua his presidency I'm not.

--Brant

I may be delusional, but if I am I always have been

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, PDS said:

But Michael please note the two Establishment Types she named as her first choice.   Kinda undercuts the Us vs. Them narrative you are growing so fond of...

David,

I've never been a fan of Coulter's endorsement of Romney. And Walker in that comment was typical of her Romney sentiments--with no criticism of Walker meant. He's a conservative hero who fits many situations because he took on government labor unions in a nasty fight and won (among a few other achievements).

However, I want to mention two things (one a correction).

1. First, a comment. Did you notice how Maher mocked her when she said Bernie Sanders would be a better candidate than Hillary Clinton? The reason Coulter gave is that he sees the middle class and their problems and wants to fix them as opposed to merely looking at them for an angle, which is what Clinton does. Coulter didn't use that language, but that was her meaning. 

2. Now the correction. My issue is not "Us vs. Them." The only people who are going to have any bad things happen (except for ISIS and folks like that) are elitists who are abusing their power. The bad thing for them is that their gravy train just ran off the rails. They are going to be removed from power and their crony deals. And that's about it. That's the "them," I suppose.

But note, my "Us," that is, the folks I resonate with, what I call typical Trump supporters, the Silent Majority, don't give a crap about having an elite class. In fact, they're fine with it. There are always going to be elites, so there's no problem when new elites come in to replace the old.

It's the old ones who stopped seeing us that's the issue. They thought running game on the Silent Majority was all the attention they ever needed to give the Silent Majority, but they could still keep milking the Silent Majority and get away with it.

So I guess there is a "them" in the sense that there is a bunch of establishment elitists decided to live in a bubble and there is the "us" out here who makes that bubble possible with money, work, votes, kids to die for their goddam Endless War scams, etc., but this is not like a class war or anything like that.

It's more like a restructuring of a company when the stockholders vote out most of the management and get new people to run the company. It's throwing the bums out and getting the company back on track.

This is how I see it. Coulter, likewise, sees it like this, even as, in another part of her soul, she is an establishment groupie bordering on superficial.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

2 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Brant,

btw - Evil does exist and must be contained and/or exterminated when uncovered. I believe that.

I just have a longer measurement to get to evil than many. That's why I see good often when others see evil.

(To me, for example, chopping innocent people's heads off is evil, but boasting a bit too much--in itself--is not.)

Besides, excessive hatred gives you strokes and heart attacks you might otherwise avoid. So my approach is very selfish.

Michael

Clinton is evil.

Trump isn't evil.

But evil is as evil does and what counts is what's going to be doing after the ceremony* in January.

--Brant

*the in-arguation

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

12 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

I may be delusional, but if I am I always have been

Brant,

I have always been a fan of the inscription over the Oracle of Delphi γνωθι σεαυτόν ("Know Thyself").

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

11 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

The only people who are going to have any bad things happen (except for ISIS and folks like that) are elitists who are abusing their power. The bad thing for them is that their gravy train just ran off the rails. They are going to be removed from power and their crony deals. And that's about it. That's the "them," I suppose.

Incidentally, here is Donald Trump saying basically the same thing.

He says he can unite much of the GOP, but there is a part of it he doesn't want. They can come back in eight years if they want to try again.

The only bad thing on his mind for them is for them to go away (without their power and crony schemes, of course  ).

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

12 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

Trump isn't evil.

Brant,

Can I frame this?

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

35 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

2. Now the correction. My issue is not "Us vs. Them." The only people who are going to have any bad things happen (except for ISIS and folks like that) are elitists who are abusing their power. The bad thing for them is that their gravy train just ran off the rails. They are going to be removed from power and their crony deals. And that's about it. That's the "them," I suppose.

Michael

Cruz was by his words going after the bureaucracy itself. The "elitists" you seem on about are upper crust Washington flotsam. It goes without saying that in a Trump presidency the press will make its peace with the Big Man and he with them. Together they will rule the galaxy as father and son.

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

50 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Brant,

I have always been a fan of the inscription over the Oracle of Delphi γνωθι σεαυτόν ("Know Thyself").

 

Michael

I know myself. Since I've been 2 1/2 I've always been searching for understanding, truth and the American way. It's part of my charm. I thought that knowledge would and could make a difference somehow, someway. The thing is inside and existential congruence. The inside has been steady state about all this. For the latter, I continually re-adjust the factual loading as I get older and smarter.

--Brant (I'll understand you better when I get back from Brazil)

how do ya do those Greek letters?