Robert Campbell Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 18 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: But even if it were pure narcissism, I can think of a lot worse. Michael, I've been marveling at this analysis for a good while. Really... Really... Really, endless loud boasting is proof that the boaster is productive, secure, and, should he ever get his hands on the power, will never send anyone to die in a useless war. Where do we start... Where do we start... If Donald Trump were as productive as he wants people to think he is, he wouldn't need to boast about it. (Still waiting on those income tax returns, Mr. Trump.) If Donald Trump were as secure as we are supposed to believe he is, he wouldn't be needing to boast, constantly, about every last thing. But if boasting is evidence of virtue... Then Trump should receive a medal for every lie he tells at the expense of his opponents. Then Trump is due a commendation for every "perfect statistic" he pulls out of his rear end. Then Trump should be hailed as a hero every time he, say, retweets an unflattering picture of an opponent's spouse. For every time the fish he caught doubles in length, the fisherman doubles in stature. Sick, man. Donald Trump is a poster boy for narcissism. And if you really think narcissists have high, secure self-esteem, may I refer you to a book or two by some clinician dude, a Branden, N.? Try making the case that Branden, N., was infected with a Christian ethos. Robert PS. Since it is close to impossible to tell what Donald Trump will do, if he becomes President, you might want to hold off on the assurances about dying and useless wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 30 minutes ago, Robert Campbell said: If Donald Trump were as productive as he wants people to think he is, he wouldn't need to boast about it. Robert, I was reading and I had to stop here. You base your statement on what? You imply the more one boasts, the less productive his is. That's an opinion, I suppose, but what else? Anything resembling a fact? Here's a fact. Productivity leaves traces. Products. Completed projects. Things like that. I can point to all kinds of traces all over the world of Trump's productivity. Gobs of 'em. I don't see where his boasting interfered with his productivity one whit. Yet you claim it does. You marvel at my reasoning. I marvel at your capacity to not see these things right in front of you. I don't "want" people to believe he is productive when he isn't. I just want them to look at what he has produced. So far, you have refused to. I have no idea why, but I, myself, will not deny my own eyes and replace them with the opinion of someone else, especially one who prefers not to use his eyes to see what I see. A skyscraper, for instance... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 29 minutes ago, Robert Campbell said: PS. Since it is close to impossible to tell what Donald Trump will do, if he becomes President, you might want to hold off on the assurances about dying and useless wars. Robert, I gave no such assurances about Trump. But I do have the assurance of Endless War with the jerks now in power since Bush the senior. All I have to do is look. You seem to be fine with it. And you seem to think the people responsible are not sick (whereas you claim Trump is). I'm not fine with it and I not only think the polite Endless Warmongers are sick, in many cases, I think they are evil bastards. I want them out of power. Marvel if you will... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Campbell Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 13 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Incidentally, it is refreshing to see Coulter talk about Cruz's form of coming to a distorted conclusion and hammering it--the form I call "lawyerly." Michael, The only feature of interest Ann Coulter's latest hot blast is seeing where she thinks she has to exert herself on Donald Trump's behalf. She gives the most space to Trump's struggles with the abortion issue, and the second most to his struggles over health care. Yup and yup. As I've noted, I'm fine with Trump being pro-choice, which has most likely always been his position. For all I know, Coulter is, too. I can think of other Republican politicians who weren't really anti-abortion (a penny for the private thoughts of George H. W. Bush?). But Trump can't even put on the simulacrum. And now even Todd Akin thinks he's a dumbass. On the healthcare thing, Trump's been all over the map. (And if he genuinely imagines the National Health Service is uniquely great for Scots, he should take an hour off his next golf trip to visit Kilmarnock Infirmary.) Coulter knows this just as well as the rest of us. The rest is business as usual from the Mistress of the Mean-Spirited. ( I figure Ann Coulter has a rigorous routine of daily practice, for if the mean-spiritedness ever begins to slip, there go her fame and her income.) As the Paragon of Special Pleading, she has to run down caucus wins. (If Donald Trump were winning caucuses, she'd be informing us that primaries are vastly overrated.) Never passing up a cheap shot, she tells her audience that Texas and Oklahoma are indistinguishable. Ah, the perfect way to piss everyone off in both states. All anyone really needs to know about Ann Coulter is that in 2012, she was all in for Mitt Romney. Though, I have to say, she and Mittens weren't temperamentally suited to each other. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Campbell Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 8 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Here's a fact. Productivity leaves traces. Products. Completed projects. Things like that. I can point to all kinds of traces all over the world of Trump's productivity. Gobs of 'em. Of course it does. And what everyone can see, Donald Trump doesn't need to boast about. But he does it anyway. Especially on the campaign trail. As I noted before, he wouldn't be the first person that politics brought out the worst in. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 10 minutes ago, Robert Campbell said: Of course it does. And what everyone can see, Donald Trump doesn't need to boast about. But he does it anyway. Robert, In other words, the boasting and productivity don't have a connection, right? That means whether Trump needs to boast or not is irrelevant where it counts. He gets the job done. You don't like the boasting, but lots and lots and lots of people seem to be fine with it. So what? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 13 minutes ago, Robert Campbell said: The only feature of interest... . . . All anyone really needs to know about Ann Coulter... Robert, I guess it's a matter of tone, but when I read someone tell me the only thing I should be interested in or all I really need to know, I tune out. I know lots of Trump people tune out too. This comes across to them as condescending, as if they are being addressed as too stupid to do their own thinking or something. I know this because I read what they right write. This is not the year where the dismissive tone is effective. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDS Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 20 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Robert, In other words, the boasting and productivity don't have a connection, right? That mean whether Trump needs to boast or not is irrelevant where it counts. He gets the job done. You don't like the boasting, but lots and lots and lots of people seem to be fine with it. So what? Michael So what? He's running for President. That's what. Having a 69 year-old Pathological Braggart as our President ought to give everyone pause. Throw in his addiction to Twitter and you have a Pooh Cocktail of the first order. As one example of how that cocktail might operate in the real world, we are subjected to him "tweeting" that "he alone" is able to solve the problem of suicide bombers in Pakistan. This is commonly called bullshit--but, that's what Pathological Braggarts do. It's one thing to have this problem as the head of a private corporation. It's quite another to have this problem as President of the United States. I would never hire a Pathological Braggart to be on my payroll, so why would I want one to be my President? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Campbell Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Robert, In other words, the boasting and productivity don't have a connection, right? That mean whether Trump needs to boast or not is irrelevant where it counts. He gets the job done. You don't like the boasting, but lots and lots and lots of people seem to be fine with it. So what? Michael Michael, You've been taking boasting as proof of productivity. I don't really care about Trump's vaunting, when he does it on behalf of his products or services. I'm not really part of his customer base, but that's irrelevant. The products and services perform, or they don't. Enough of them have, for enough people, or Trump would be out of business. Let the prospective consumers reward him in each case, or let them withhold reward, factoring the vaunting in with the rest. Trump is vaunting on the campaign trail. It's not as though he has a track record in political office, and has to choose whether to vaunt it. He has no achievements in political office, because he's never held any. In the process, he trashes people, like Scott Walker, who do have genuine accomplishments while in political office. He actually seems resentful of anyone like that. Hence the compulsion to re-stomp. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, Robert Campbell said: You've been taking boasting as proof of productivity. Robert, Where? I've never claimed that. Not even insinuated it. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 7 minutes ago, PDS said: Having a 69 year-old Pathological Braggart as our President ought to give everyone pause. David, Tell that to Trump supporters who not only don't pause, they don't budge. In fact, they seem to be growing... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 8 minutes ago, Robert Campbell said: He has no achievements in political office, because he's never held any. In the process, he trashes people, like Scott Walker, who do have genuine accomplishments while in political office. Robert, There's a hidden premise here that you see one way and Trump supporters like me see another. The premise is that politics is a superior form of endeavor that requires a superior form of person than mere business-people. A Trump supporter looks at politics qua job as simply one more job. You either know how to lead people and get things done or you don't. And you can do this by inspiration and competence or you can do it by graft, corruption and backroom deals. The current spate of politicians, going back to Bush the senior, are of the graft, corruption and backroom deals variety with the public be damned. Trump predominantly uses competence, excellence and leadership and gets large-scale projects done right, on time and under budget. And at times he has used graft and corruption to get politicians out of his way. To a Trump supporter, this makes him eminently qualified to be a politician. Preeminently qualified. I don't know what esoteric leadership and management skills you seem to think Trump is lacking (other than "political achievements"), but from my view, he looks a lot better than we've had in decades. Not a little better. Gobs and gobs and gobs better. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Campbell Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 13 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: Robert, Where? I've never claimed that. Not even insinuated it. Michael Michael, Go back and take another look at some of your stumping for Trump. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Campbell Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 33 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: This is not the year where the dismissive tone is effective. Michael, Donald Trump seems to think it is. What was the re-stomping about? Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDS Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 11 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said: David, Tell that to Trump supporters who not only don't pause, they don't budge. In fact, they seem to be growing... Michael You're about the only Trump supporter I care about persuading, Michael. You bring up arithmetic a lot, so let me quote a line on this subject from a really great book: "Why is truth made a mere matter of arithmetic—and only of addition at that? Why is everything twisted out of all sense to fit everything else? There must be some reason. I don't know. I've never known it. I'd like to understand." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Just now, Robert Campbell said: Go back and take another look at some of your stumping for Trump. Robert, Nah... I know what I believe and I've been saying the same thing over and over for months. If you want to read into it what is not there, be my guest. But don't expect me to validate it and do homework to boot. Do your own homework. If you have a doubt about my meaning, I will be happy to explain it. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Campbell Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Michael, Do you really think Nathaniel Branden was infected with a Christian ethos? Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Just now, Robert Campbell said: Donald Trump seems to think it is. What was the re-stomping about? Robert, I should have been clearer. There is an enormous group of people who have been ignored and constantly dismissed by the intelligentsia and the elites for decades. What I meant was it is not the year to keep ignoring and dismissing them. They are no longer taking it in the passive manner they have done up to now. Being dismissive of the intelligentsia and the elites is fine. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Campbell Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 In other words, supporters of Trump are entitled to dismiss everyone else. (Because all non-Trump supporters are either of the intelligentsia, or are its useful idiots.) If they keep dismissing, long and hard enough, their numbers will increase without limit and Trump will rule forever and ever (OK, until the 22nd Amendment kicks in). You don't see any defects in this strategy? robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Robert Campbell said: Do you really think Nathaniel Branden was infected with a Christian ethos? Robert, On cultural archetypes? Some. He would be a psychopath or mentally impaired if he wasn't. It's like growing up around English speaking people and never learning to speak English. It would be nice for the culture to not have any automatic imprint at all on human minds, but that's not the way humans exist. And I'm not claiming volition does not exist. It's all a mix. I am sure NB would have agreed with this, too. (btw - Have you listened to his mp3 conversation with Ken Wilber? It's called Atlas Evolved. Did you know Devers is a psychic? And NB was going along with all of it when they were together? Meaning she was "reading" some of his patients and so on? It's a very interesting recording. ) On another point, there's a good-guy archetype in our culture has very little to do with Christianity. It's the loner who doesn't follow rules, especially social rules (and he can be quite dishonest and violent about it), but he follows his own inner moral code. Hollywood and all other entertainment media are full of examples. In fact, a variation of this archetype is one of Trump's appeals. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 57 minutes ago, Robert Campbell said: You don't see any defects in this strategy? Robert, Not for this election. In fact, I am absolutely sure there are plenty of elites and intelligentsia who, underneath, are tired of all the bullshit. Sick of it and don't know what to do about it. They feel stuck. I expect these to eventually come around to Trump. I expect the others in the elites and intelligentsia, the ones who are committed to their status quo for whatever reason (good or bad), to fight Trump tooth and nail. I don't think they will change their minds because he scares the shit out of them. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william.scherk Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Here is Trump lawyer Mike "you can't rape your spouse" Cohen, explaing that all the polls that show Trump's unfavourables are lies and bullschmutz. Quite entertaining if you like Zany and Wack ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Cruz: deliberate war(s)--beats the Bushes' Trump: stumbles into war(s) Clinton: fosters war--a real big one Sanders: hasn't an observable clue --Brant vote for Bernie? time to be an alcoholic or a heroin addict (booze is cheaper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 It looks like Trump will get 50-55 delegates in NY with Cruz 40-45. There are 10 at large delegates and 3 for each Congressional district. In each of those if you don't get over 50% of the vote proportionality kicks in. The pro-Cruz crowd now says Trump will drop out to protect the brand which is his name. --Brant within a month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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