Donald Trump

[Jonathan]

On April 6, 2016 at 2:12 PM, PDS said:

Jonathan:

Do you have any evidence related to this statement?

The reason I ask--apart from the obvious--is that Trump's statement about McCain was the turning point for me with Trump, i.e., there was never a chance I could vote for somebody who made such a comment about a prisoner of war, especially when Trump clearly could have served but managed to avoid doing so. 

No, I don't compile such evidence. It's years and years of my observing McCain all added up to a single vibe. You don't have to agree with it.

J

[Jonathan]

5 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Robert,

I was reading and I had to stop here.

You base your statement on what?

You imply the more one boasts, the less productive his is. That's an opinion, I suppose, but what else? Anything resembling a fact?

 

Heh. Didn't Rand boast about how wonderfully awesomely heroically brilliant she was?

J

[Jonathan]

2 hours ago, william.scherk said:

Here is Trump lawyer Mike "you can't rape your spouse"

He'd get along well with Peikoff. Or at least Peikoff prior to having been bitch-slapped by family and friends into recognizing that he needed to quickly walk back his ridiculously retarded theory that, if you're a woman who has voluntarily gone to a man's hotel room and intentionally and consensually flipped his boner switch, you can't change your mind, back out of it, revoke your consent, or otherwise try to shut the switch back off, but, rather, he has the right to forcibly finish what you started, and it's therefore not rape.

J

[Brant Gaede]

30 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

Heh. Didn't Rand boast about how wonderfully awesomely heroically brilliant she was?

J

Not as much as those around her saying so--to her and to others.

--Brant

it was one hell of a show, back then

[9thdoctor]

21 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Dennis,

Ha!

If you are comparing Trump to Coates, talk about a thrasonical equivalency!

 

Nope.  I was just giving David a little memory-assist. 

[william.scherk]

56 minutes ago, 9thdoctor said:

22 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

talk about a thrasonical equivalency!

Nope.  I was just giving David a little memory-assist. 

Yes. For those who haven't looked it up, or guessed it from context, or who simply use this word enough to know it inside out., thrasonical can mean boastful, braggart (as an adjective). Merriam-Webster online sez:

Thraso was a blustering old soldier in the comedy Eunuchus, a play written by the great Roman dramatist Terence more than 2,000 years ago. Terence is generally remembered for his realistic characterizations, and in Thraso he created a swaggerer whose vainglorious boastfulness was not soon to be forgotten. Thraso's reputation as a braggart lives on in "thrasonical," a word that boasts a history as an English adjective for more than 440 years.

But why Thraso, Thrasos?  Well, because of a little-known clause in the Greek God social contract. If you weren't a full-fledged Olympian, you get second-billing and an appearance on Objectivish Loving Trump. So, Thrasos was one of the lesser New York Values spirits/daemons, apparently; from the Theoi.com website:

THRASOS was the Daimon (spirit) of excessively bold or rash action and insolence. He was associated with Ate, the malevolent spirit of delusion.

"But an old Hybris (hubris) tends to bring forth in evil men, sooner or later, at the fated hour of birth, a young hubris and that irresistible, unconquerable, unholy spirit (daimon), Thrasos (Recklessness), and for the household black Ates (Curses), which resemble their parents. But Dike (Righteousness) shines in smoke-begrimed dwellings and esteems the virtuous man."

Confession:  although Phil's argumentative ploys and styles most often irked me, and despite my distaste for his shitty departure notice (Gimme a C U en and a tee), I keep in touch, with a twice-yearly social health check.  I must report that Phil is phine, phine phine. 

One hopes this will not devolve into assessing Trump hubris. He doesn't have any, according to the foremost Trump mystic. There is nothing wrong with boasting and braggadocio. 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

56 minutes ago, william.scherk said:

There is nothing wrong with boasting and braggadocio.

William,

I never said there is nothing wrong with it.

I said I don't mind boasting when someone is competent (like Trump). When it's a schtick, I even get entertained. Trump people feel as I do.

Others despise boasting and they can get quite vituperative and mocking when discussing it. Loathing is a pretty good word to describe what I have read from these folks at times.

I even dropped a big hint about a fundamental difference between the boasting of Trump and Coates. (btw - I'm glad to hear he's fine.  )

I've been pretty clear on this for about 9 months. Enough time to have a baby, so that's plenty of time to understand my meaning.

Is it so difficult to disagree with what I do say? Why make stuff I don't and insinuate that's what I said?

Michael

[william.scherk]

22 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Trump people feel as I do.

That is handy. No need to double-check.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

That is handy. No need to double-check.

William,

I double-check just about every day since I read and interact with them.

Do I sense a big honking case of denial?

pssssst

(whispering) Trump supporters exist. They exist as they are, not as you want them to be. And most of all, I know this is hard to believe, they are human beings...

Michael

[Mikee]

" There is nothing wrong with boasting and braggadocio. "

Of course not.  This is a year long job interview for the hardest job imaginable, particularly following BHO.  Self effacing certainly would not cut it no matter what your politics is.  Pardon me if I think to suggest otherwise is rhetorical bs.

I was distrusting of Trump earlier, after listening to several speeches and interviews in the last weeks and taking his business decisions in context I don't think he's a potential "Putin" as I stated earlier.  He's the best candidate left in the race in my opinion.  I support Trump presently.  Cruz is too clever by half.  I think he is disingenuous.  Watching him talk I would have a difficult time trusting him.  He is definitely no political outsider.  He is not above dirty tricks.  Crafty Cruzy?  Anything for the win is a leftist or insider tactic, I'm not interested.  Trump appears honest, most particularly when compared to all of the political hacks, regardless of whatever else you think of him.

[Brant Gaede]

Trump supporters--they aren't Trump.

Trump Supporters?--Let's not go there.

--Brant

much to support?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Now it's official (from the New York Post yesterday):

Rudy Giuliani is voting for Donald Trump

Giuliani said:

I support Trump. I’m gonna vote for Trump.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

This should go in Trump humor because it's cute, but The Donald is still retweeting and he did just retweet it.

"@iamDaveK: @realDonaldTrump first WWE Hall of Famer to become president?"

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 8, 2016

On a more serious note, this one is more policy oriented while still entertaining (a political cartoon). I hope this trend continues with him. I think it's a great way to force the mainstream media to keep these policy problems front and center.

"@DiCristo13: @realDonaldTrump let's have the policy speeches on immigration, economy, foreign policy, and NATO! pic.twitter.com/Uuit2hWmhW"

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 8, 2016

Michael

[PDS]

10 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

William,

I double-check just about every day since I read and interact with them.

Do I sense a big honking case of denial?

pssssst

(whispering) Trump supporters exist. They exist as they are, not as you want them to be. And most of all, I know this is hard to believe, they are human beings...

Michael

Has anybody claimed The Braggart's supporters are NOT human beings?  I get that you're not being literal, but I'm not sure about the underlying point. 

Can anybody reasonably claim The Braggart's supporters are a monolithic group?

Michael, I'm curious about the broad sweeping claims you make about "Trump supporters".  Even on this thread the 3-4 Trump supporters who have outed themselves seem to come to their support from different angles.  

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

13 minutes ago, PDS said:

Has anybody claimed The Braggart's supporters are NOT human beings?  I get that you're not being literal, but I'm not sure about the underlying point. 

Can anybody reasonably claim The Braggart's supporters are a monolithic group?

Michael, I'm curious about the broad sweeping claims you make about "Trump supporters".  Even on this thread the 3-4 Trump supporters who have outed themselves seem to come to their support from different angles.

David,

It's simple because they all do come from different angles. (That happens to be a characteristic of human beings, not of simple stats or easy categories.)

Trump supporters are people who are tired of bad things being justified as good by the elites and the intelligentsia, especially when they are the ones supplying the children to die for the Endless Wars, they are the ones losing their jobs, they are the ones being shot and blown up by terrorist attacks, etc. etc. etc. 

These are the people the elites and the intelligentsia don't consider--neither as human beings nor as anything that needs considering, for that matter. Oh, when they squawk too much, the elites and the intelligentsia have to pay them a little attention, and they have to give some attention to get votes and taxes, of course, but soon enough, the better class puts the subhumans back in their place and go around happily blanking them out.

If you want to know how Trump supporters of all angles feel, that is how they feel.

That is how they have been treated, that is how they have been talked down to, that is how they have been ignored.

Have you noticed? The elites and the intelligentsia are not ignoring them anymore, are they? They're still talking down to them and trying to rationalize these people out of existence, but they are no longer ignoring them.

I can only imagine the horror of realizing one has made a mistake of that size as the tidal wave of history comes crashing down.

I repeat, Trump is not manipulating his followers. He is reflecting them.

The reason this is so hard to grok by the elites and the intelligentsia is that they don't believe, not at the root deep in their souls, that Trump supporters are actual human beings who mean it this time.

Michael

[PDS]

6 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

David,

It's simple because they all do come from different angles. (That happens to be a characteristic of human beings, not of simple stats or easy categories.)

Trump supporters are people who are tired of bad things being justified as good by the elites and the intelligentsia, especially when they are the ones supplying the children to die for the Endless Wars, they are the ones losing their jobs, they are the ones being shot and blown up by terrorist attacks, etc. etc. etc. 

These are the people the elites and the intelligentsia don't consider--neither as human beings nor as anything that needs considering, for that matter. Oh, when they squawk too much, the elites and the intelligentsia have to pay them a little attention, and they have to give some attention to get votes and taxes, of course, but soon enough, the better class puts the subhumans back in their place and go around happily blanking them out.

If you want to know how Trump supporters of all angles feel, that is how they feel.

That is how they have been treated, that is how they have been talked down to, that is how they have been ignored.

Have you noticed? The elites and the intelligentsia are not ignoring them anymore, are they? They're still talking down to them and trying to rationalize these people out of existence, but they are no longer ignoring them.

I can only imagine the horror of realizing one has made a mistake of that size as the tidal wave of history comes crashing down.

I repeat, Trump is not manipulating his followers. He is reflecting them.

The reason this is so hard to grok by the elites and the intelligentsia is that they don't believe, not at the root deep in their souls, that Trump supporters are actual human beings who mean it this time.

Michael

How do you know all of this?

With respect, you are not a mind reader.  

As one example, you have mentioned "endless wars" many times now.   Where were the current "Trump supporters" when those wars were being debated (and fought) in real time?   Not now, after the fact, but in real time?

A wise man I know has been known to say that one should judge another's actions far more prominently than their mere words.  Can you point us to examples of the "Trump supporters" you are describing actually protesting one of these endless wars?  

Not to be a prick, but did you protest any of these wars?  Did you write against these wars?   I assume you did, but I don't recall seeing a lot of what currently counts for Trump supporters having done so--not when it counted, at least. 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Just now, PDS said:

Not to be a prick, but did you protest any of these wars?  Did you write against these wars?

David,

Yup.

I was ignored, too.

That's one of the reasons I know what I know. The reason you don't know it is because you don't believe it exists, yet.

I have a piece of advice, and I'm not being snarky. If you have sympathies with the elites and the intelligentsia (and there are lots of good people who do, not just the evil bastards), cling to Cruz with all your might and soul.

Cruz is half Trojan horse, a Bush dude underneath. He's got an inconvenient ideology for the Vested Interests, but he's also being bought and paid for by them. They'll make sure he keeps their con game running.

Trump won't. He's going to dismantle the Endless War machine and a whole lot of other rot. And that's a lot of change. I can understand how this scares people.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

David,

btw - I'm not going to argue about whether the Endless War machine exists.

If you don't believe it does, OK. 

I still intend to help dismantle it. Trump does, too.

Michael

[PDS]

1 hour ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

David,

Yup.

I was ignored, too.

That's one of the reasons I know what I know. The reason you don't know it is because you don't believe it exists, yet.

I have a piece of advice, and I'm not being snarky. If you have sympathies with the elites and the intelligentsia (and there are lots of good people who do, not just the evil bastards), cling to Cruz with all your might and soul.

Cruz is half Trojan horse, a Bush dude underneath. He's got an inconvenient ideology for the Vested Interests, but he's also being bought and paid for by them. They'll make sure he keeps their con game running.

Trump won't. He's going to dismantle the Endless War machine and a whole lot of other rot. And that's a lot of change. I can understand how this scares people.

Michael

How were you ignored?  Who ignored you?

Please be specific. 

I am not doubting you, but how does somebody in your position even know if they are being ignored? 

I have a piece of advice for you, and I'm not being snarky.    You need to stop playing the victim card (There are no "con games" running; and whoever you claim to be the Vested Interests are not the omnipotent puppet masters you think.   Repeating these claims does not make them true.), 

And, you really should stop attacking the motives of those who do not share your political crush on Trump.   I am afraid your sympathies for the Pathological Braggart have broken your usually astute radar in the area of people skills.  

Instead of errantly guessing at my motives and sympathies, why not just ask me?   I am happy to explain them. 

[PDS]

1 hour ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

David,

btw - I'm not going to argue about whether the Endless War machine exists.

If you don't believe it does, OK. 

I still intend to help dismantle it. Trump does, too.

Michael

How?

Not Trump, but you.*   How do you intend to dismantle the Endless War machine?

*I don't really care much for how Trump claims he will do this, since he will likely be simply Bragging about something or other.   You on the other hand, I truly believe to be sincere. 

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

8 minutes ago, PDS said:

How do you intend to dismantle the Endless War machine?

David,

By electing a CEO and entrepreneur as president who is an expert at fixing bad deals and putting magnificent projects in their place, i.e. Donald Trump. One who actually hates war (as proven by the way he makes his money when he's had countless temptations to do otherwise).

I'm serious.

I mean it.

I exist like this.

And I'm a human being.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

15 minutes ago, PDS said:

I have a piece of advice for you, and I'm not being snarky.    You need to stop playing the victim card...

David,

Gimme a break!

Who's playing the victim card?

I don't want anyone to resolve my problem. I'll do it myself, thank you, just like oodles of Trump supporters are doing.

I'm merely trying to explain to you something you don't see or don't want to see or can't see or whatever. I don't need your sympathy. I thought you were curious and I'm supplying information.

If you think that's nothing but a victimization story, you still don't believe I exist.

But I do.

I don't mind, though, because I'm used to it. I'm just joining lots of others like me this time around and we're going to fix it.

There's no guarantee that Trump will win, but if he doesn't, a great dismantling will occur amongst the elites and intelligentsia. I guarantee that.

There is no victim card in this. I don't care if the elites and intelligentsia want to continue their con game. There is nothing they can offer I want. I am working to help get rid of them--at least the evil bastards among them and the structures they built to hold onto power. These will be replaced by some good old fashioned common sense and good old fashioned freedom for everyone.

Corny?

You betcha.

Voila.

Problem solved.

btw - If you want to get a handle on Trump supporters, go to any post he makes on Facebook and read through the thousands of comments each one gets.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

24 minutes ago, PDS said:

I am not doubting you, but how does somebody in your position even know if they are being ignored?

David,

LOL...

Just listen to you...

How on earth can I answer that?

In other words, if I'm too stupid to know something is happening, how do I manage to know it?

Dayaamm!

Here's a counter offer. How do you know when people agree with you? Who agrees with you. And when? Is this a trend? Can you give specific examples? 

And how does a person in your position even know when someone truly agrees with you?

 

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

28 minutes ago, PDS said:

There are no "con games" running; and whoever you claim to be the Vested Interests are not the omnipotent puppet masters you think.   Repeating these claims does not make them true.

David,

If you say so.

They are going to come to an end, anyway.

You can count on it.

Michael

[PDS]

6 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

David,

Gimme a break!

Who's playing the victim card?

I don't want anyone to resolve my problem. I'll do it myself, thank you, just like oodles of Trump supporters are doing.

I'm merely trying to explain to you something you don't see or don't want to see or can't see or whatever. I don't need your sympathy. I thought you were curious and I'm supplying information.

If you think that's nothing but a victimization story, you still don't believe I exist.

But I do.

I don't mind, though, because I'm used to it. I'm just joining lots of others like me this time around and we're going to fix it.

There's no guarantee that Trump will win, but if he doesn't, a great dismantling will occur amongst the elites and intelligentsia. I guarantee that.

There is no victim card in this. I don't care if the elites and intelligentsia want to continue their con game. There is nothing they can offer I want. I am working to help get rid of them--at least the evil bastards among them and the structures they built to hold onto power. These will be replaced by some good old fashioned common sense and good old fashioned freedom for everyone.

Corny?

You betcha.

Voila.

Problem solved.

btw - If you want to get a handle on Trump supporters, go to any post he makes on Facebook and read through the thousands of comments each one gets.

Michael

No, Michael, I do think you exist.  I really do.  As Churchill said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

What I don't think exists are persuasive arguments in favor of Trump becoming our President.   This is not about you.  It's about your arguments.

Stop playing the Victim Card.  It's unbecoming.