What About Bill Cosby?

[zantonavitch]

I think there's a lot of sexual malfunction and unhappiness in Western society today. The predator and assailant Bill Cosby seems to have gotten a ton of women in his time. On the one hand, Good Guys today fail to seduce women at a rate anywhere near Cosby. On the other hand, Good Women let themselves be seduced by the likes of him in giant numbers. And drugged and raped. And then they don't complain about it for 40 years. Everyone loses -- decent men and decent women. The only triumphant figure is the fiend and monster Bill Cosby (and Mike Tyson, William Kennedy Smith, Bill Clinton, etc). With this near universal sexual failure, men and women today strike me as morons and lowlifes.

Just a drive-by post ignorant and uninterested in the context created by the thread. It is also full of garbage assumptions--garbage as yet to be shown--so far a bunch of feeding frenzy allegations and even blame the victim. "Men and women today" caps off this noxious nonsense. There are billions of them, don't you know?

--Brant

Agreed. Lots of BS smuggled into one short post.

The Bill Cosby incident doesn't say a lot about the unhealthiness and unhappiness of the philosophy, psychology, and culture of sexuality in Western Society today? Current thinking on this subject seems way off to me. It's part and parcel of today's ugly, slanderous, and badly-misguided campaign against "rape culture" on America's colleges. We're a long way from rationality and truth on all of this.

[Brant Gaede]

I think there's a lot of sexual malfunction and unhappiness in Western society today. The predator and assailant Bill Cosby seems to have gotten a ton of women in his time. On the one hand, Good Guys today fail to seduce women at a rate anywhere near Cosby. On the other hand, Good Women let themselves be seduced by the likes of him in giant numbers. And drugged and raped. And then they don't complain about it for 40 years. Everyone loses -- decent men and decent women. The only triumphant figure is the fiend and monster Bill Cosby (and Mike Tyson, William Kennedy Smith, Bill Clinton, etc). With this near universal sexual failure, men and women today strike me as morons and lowlifes.

Just a drive-by post ignorant and uninterested in the context created by the thread. It is also full of garbage assumptions--garbage as yet to be shown--so far a bunch of feeding frenzy allegations and even blame the victim. "Men and women today" caps off this noxious nonsense. There are billions of them, don't you know?

--Brant

Agreed. Lots of BS smuggled into one short post.

The Bill Cosby incident doesn't say a lot about the unhealthiness and unhappiness of the philosophy, psychology, and culture of sexuality in Western Society today? Current thinking on this subject seems way off to me. It's part and parcel of today's ugly, slanderous, and badly-misguided campaign against "rape culture" on America's colleges. We're a long way from rationality and truth on all of this.

Nope. You first have to address media frenzy vs non-media frenzy then try to objectify the underlying culture. I think the true rot is implicit communist philosophy rot in colleges to journalism to the role of mainstream media (MSM) in today's shit and then you'll find it going back decade after decade with it all piling up in what we see today through their eyes. If there was a freedom bias in all that reporting-not reporting then shit would not be the frosting on the American cake and we'd have a better world--assuming it hadn't been blown up by general thermonuclear war (GTW), which could have happened regardless but so far has not. The left is and has always been at war with America. The public kingpin is The New York Times, the traitor newspaper, the newspaper that will never go out of business for there will always be a stupid anti-American billionaire in the wings ready, willing and wanting to bail it out. The emotional--but irrational--reason for the U.S. to invade Cuba and crush its communist regime is just to spit in the face of The Times, all its minions, and all it stands for.

--Brant (rant, rant, pant, pant!)

I do admire how well you hold up with and deal with my scorn and general animadversion upon how you address issues by not addressing my scorn

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I'm glad I'm not the only one demanding objectivity about the media convicting people of rape based solely on hearsay and unconfirmed stories from accusers.

Rolling Stone loses faith in UVA rape story

Investigation: Lena Dunham ‘Raped By A Republican’ Story In Bestseller Collapses Under Scrutiny

The media does a horrible disservice to actual rape victims by constantly jumping the gun to spike audience and/or engaging in smear campaigns to promote political agendas and propaganda.

The real rape victims don't get their day in public media court. All the media space on rape is used for gossip.

Friggin' churnalists...

Michael

[Darrell Hougen]

I'm glad I'm not the only one demanding objectivity about the media convicting people of rape based solely on hearsay and unconfirmed stories from accusers.

Rolling Stone loses faith in UVA rape story

Investigation: Lena Dunham ‘Raped By A Republican’ Story In Bestseller Collapses Under Scrutiny

The media does a horrible disservice to actual rape victims by constantly jumping the gun to spike audience and/or engaging in smear campaigns to promote political agendas and propaganda.

The real rape victims don't get their day in public media court. All the media space on rape is used for gossip.

Friggin' churnalists...

Michael

Hi Michael,

I just finished reading those articles. I must admit I didn't even know who Lena Dunham was before reading Breitbart's article about her. This is what bothers me about California's new "affirmative consent" statute for California colleges that requires a person seeking to have sex to obtain affirmative consent at every stage of the process. In a he said, she said scenario, the only way for the statute to have any meaning is if the accuser's words are weighted more heavily than the defendant's. Couple that with the propensity of some accusers to lie, and you have a toxic brew. The stigma of a rape accusation is already enough to ruin an innocent man's life and this just compounds the problem.

BTW, Cosby is apparently accusing the woman that is suing him of attempting to extort money from him in the past and is counter suing her. I don't feel like I'm in a position to judge Cosby's guilt or innocence, but it does seem like a lot of his accusers have problems with their stories.

Darrell

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Here is a great explanation of what I am discussing in defending Cosby against the press.

Please notice I am not defending him against any possible wrongdoing he may have committed. I am defending him against media rape.

And the media folks are doing this crap on purpose. They study how to do it and implement their learning. Now it's becoming so obvious, their colleagues, the ones who still believe in a smidgen of integrity, are turning on them.

Granted, the article below is about the UVA debacle and it comes from a conservative website with an agenda, but the principles are identical.

Media people like Sabrina Rubin Erdely, the Rolling Stone journalist who first did the UVA story, are not concerned with facts, but with reporting the kinds of images and narratives that can go viral.

Your Rape: Is It Clickbait? Does It Pop?
by Chris Bray
Dec. 4, 2014
The Daily Caller

There is so much that is good in this article, it is hard to choose what to quote. Here are some cherry picks:

... remarkable paragraphs from a story in the Washington Post:

Magazine writer Sabrina Rubin Erdely knew she wanted to write about sexual assaults at an elite university. What she didn’t know was which university.

So, for six weeks starting in June, Erdely interviewed students from across the country. She talked to people at Harvard, Yale, Princeton and her alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania. None of those schools felt quite right. But one did: the University of Virginia, a public school, Southern and genteel, brimming with what Erdely calls “super-smart kids” and steeped in the legacy of its founder, Thomas Jefferson.

. . .

She was rape shopping: going from campus to campus auditioning rape victims, contacting advocacy groups and asking for introductions. But the rapes she found at Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Penn didn’t have the right narrative feel. They were just rapes, and she needed a cover-worthy rape. So she kept shopping until she found someone who would tell her a version of the story she had already decided to tell. She needed a big rape — something splashy, something with wild details and a frat house. She needed a rape that would go viral. You can’t do that with just some regular boring rape.

. . .

... real problems go unreported, because boooooring. Look again at how casual the discard pile is: “She talked to people at Harvard, Yale, Princeton and her alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania. None of those schools felt quite right.”

Get better rapes, Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Penn. Let’s face it: For magazine journalism, yours just aren't colorful enough.

Here's a principle for you.

Facts don't result in lynch mobs. Manipulative stories do.

Facts result in justice. And that's what I am concerned with.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

CNN (Don Lemon and Nancy Grace) just did a number on this by interviewing several women who accuse Cosby or drugging them and raping them while unconscious.

I'm still thinking over the ramifications. There's some real power going on here behind the scenes because CNN just opened itself to a massive lawsuit if Cosby decides to pursue it.

Then again, Cosby could be what they are saying.

In either case, I don't like what I saw. If "occult" powers are taking Cosby down and his greatest sin was he was promiscuous and played with drugs at parties, and they discover this thing works, imagine what they are going to do with future people.

If he is truly guilty, I hope he opens up and talks about it. I do hope he doesn't commit suicide.

Michael

[Jules Troy]

He might even if he is innocent..

[Mikee]

I apologize, but I just have to throw this in. Might be relevant.

BTW, I worked in Pacific Palisades, Brentwood, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, in 1976-77. Installed security systems in high profile peoples houses, (actors, directors, writers). In more than one house I observed an astonishing casualness about sex, one older man, a famous tv writer, having sex with his much younger assistant while his wife was in another room and security guys are moving about the house installing and checking his new system. Other places, women getting massages naked while workers are walking back and forth. Skinny dipping in the backyard pool was hardly worth a glance. Certainly an in your face about your preconceived notions about prudishness. That's how it was and everyone knew it. I seriously doubt if Bill Cosby did anything more than simply give in to whatever was being offered to him. How convenient that these charges are being brought out now about this man in his final years given the conservative nature of the advice he has been trying to pass on.

[PDS]

I only know about this matter through following and (until now) lurking on this thread.

There is one thing (among others) that I do not understand. Cosby is largely washed up. Why go after him now, as opposed to when he was truly at the "peak" of his popularity as a counter-cultural spokesman against the mores of black culture? The timing of a smear job motivation seems off to me, especally there are obvious statute of limitations problems with a number of the accusations, so monetary gain is not all that likely.

Some of the accusors seem shady (e.g., the Marv Albert accusor), but my guess (based on 25+ years of defending sexual harassment types of cases) is that this is a situation that supports the adage that where there is smoke there is fire.

[Brant Gaede]

While I tend to agree with smoke = fire, it's not a trial with rules of evidence. As for the rest of your interest, I'd say there is a lot of self-righteous inertia feeding frenzy on the carcass of former public probity by those who hate "Oreos." Oreos threaten the hold on the black community by race hustlers and liberal dominated mainstream media and the Democratic party--that is, the part of that community they can get their hands on, even incite to violence. More and more the rest of it is in their imaginings, but that's enough for them to keep it up.

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

There is one thing (among others) that I do not understand. Cosby is largely washed up. Why go after him now, as opposed to when he was truly at the "peak" of his popularity as a counter-cultural spokesman against the mores of black culture? The timing of a smear job motivation seems off to me, especally there are obvious statute of limitations problems with a number of the accusations, so monetary gain is not all that likely.

David,

I want to take a crack at this. And let this be an example of my paranoia escaping from the barn for a bit.

1. Let's start with a big picture view--in terms of power in the USA, the biggest. The Presidency. There is an event coming up that is going to seriously clip Obama's wings (which means the wings of the machine behind him). A Republican majority Congress is going to be sworn in starting January. Obama does not have much time to maneuver, but he is a master at orchestrating public opinion and playing dirty tricks backstage. Look up COBS-Consortium Of Behavioral Scientists, for example. The IRS targeting of Tea Party groups. Blaming the Benghazi fiasco on an anti-Islamic video because it interfered with his election narrative of having Al Qaeda on the run. And on and on and on. The point is, irrespective of whether he and his people are involved in the Cosby mess, they do these things. They've done a lot of these things. So it's not unreasonable to look at them at a time like this.

2. Big government politicians on the other side do these things, too. Look at what they did to Herman Cain during the Republican primaries. Suddenly there were white women coming out of the woodworks saying Herman Cain had sex with them. And they talked in graphic terms. I remember one image where a woman talked about how he pushed her head down into his crotch. Stuff like that.

This plays into an old painful fear-inducing archetype in the American psyche that is left over from Civil War days and before--the black stud or buck defiling a white woman. This apparently still resonates although, on a personal level, when I look inside myself, I feel nothing. However, I can't help but notice people tend to get a lot more emotional when this image is in front of them.

Ditto for noticing something else, too. Once Herman Cain declared he was no longer running, these women disappeared. Where are they now? Where have they been since then? Nobody knows. Their appearance-and-disappearance act was like an on-off switch.

3. The substantive political division in the USA is not Democrat vs. Republican, not where power is concerned. It is small government vs. big government. On issues where the government can grow, there is not too much of a fight between Democrats and Republicans. The real fight occurs between them in the scramble for power itself. And in this scramble, the progressive wing of the Democrats is very well organized. Notice that when it floats an issue, all of the main spokespeople say the same thing. Identical words.

4. The progressives on Obama's team are currently using two topics like themes in a novel for getting people riled up: rape and racism. On the racism side, look at the riots happening here. And on the rape side, notice that Bill Cosby is not the only one who has been recently accused of rape in the mainstream. Several others have been accused, also. Since all of this appears to be happening at the same time--all by itself--but since some of the rape accusations are falling apart from outright fraud, it's reasonable to assume orchestration is going on and there might be fraud in other events. The question is why are they doing that?

5. Let's start with racism. My theory is most people are busy living their lives, going to work or school, dealing with their family dramas or melodramas, keeping their heads in electronic entertainment or other forms of amusement, and pursuing personal concerns in general. When there is a lot of mayhem and fear-inducing destruction right in their faces day after day after day, there reaches a point where they say make it stop. I want to get back to my life so will someone please make it stop? And, coincidentally, miracle of miracles, there actually is someone--he's in the wings with strong arm measures ready to go. He will step up at the right time and say he can make it all go away if he can just have the power to do so. If the pain is great enough, people give him that power. This is how the game has been played since the beginning of human history. I believe the current racial agitation has this behind it. Obama & Co. need a way to balance the coming situation where they will lose control for all practical purposes.

6. When I look at the majority of the cases where there are race riots and demonstrations, Treyvon Martin, Michael Brown, etc., I notice a common characteristic. These are not cases where someone is clearly in the wrong and someone else in the right, but the agitators seem to defend thugs or people who act like thugs. So they already come with inherent conflict and confusion. More than that, from all the conflicting stories by witnesses and so-called experts, it's easy to see many people distort facts on purpose. There is an enormous amount of yelling. Why?

I believe it's because of the long legs the story grows this way. They choose stories and elements--especially conflict and confusion--they can milk for a long time. A case of clear injustice would die public-interest-wise as soon as it was resolved. Notice that the Eric Garner case has this same element, except the thug slant leans to the police side. But it fuels the same fire because it has legs, not because one side is right or wrong.

7. It's sad to say the following, but it has to be said. The only people rioting (as a group) are black people. I believe many black people themselves are getting sick of it, too. So the only way to keep them riled up is to keep shoving victims in their faces and yelling loudly about it in the media.

8. Enter Bill Cosby.

When all this rape stuff started in the media, he was making a comeback. He had two TV shows in the works, a tour, a book, projects and on and on. He was not in favor of all this rioting and racial agenda. His megaphone would have spoken loudly to lots of black people had his projects resulted in the success he had before. If the riots are to continue so people will yell please make it stop, Cosby had to be stopped. He had to be discredited. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

And if it turns out he's guilty, that's gravy. But guilty and innocent are not a fundamental part of this game.

9. So I think the progressives on Obama's side looked at what the conservative progressives did to Herman Cain and thought you know, that archetype works to get the public riled up enough to take out a conservative black man and the racism that drives this doesn't backfire on us. So they decided to run a trial on Bill Cosby. And it grew. It's now at the point where on CNN with Don Lemon, he not only interviewed five white women in one sitting claiming rape by Cosby, they were all blonde. Another coincidence? Or is this manipulating an archetype?

10. On the same day of this interview, I saw a montage of Hillary, Obama, Holder, etc., etc., etc., saying in different recent speeches, "All lives matter." But they were saying it in a context of only black lives. And the striking point was that they all used the same terminology. Identical words. Coincidence or backstage orchestration?

11. In very simple terms, since a lot of the rape stuff has exploded as false, but the Cosby story "took" with the public--probably because of the power of the archetype--the backstage manipulators are throwing two main fraudsters, the Rolling Stone reporter and Lena Dunham, to the pack of hungry piranhas on the conservative side and pouring everything they've got on top of Cosby. It's working so run with it.

12. In one sense, Cosby can be a very good test to see how far they can push the big black dude raping white women meme. If they can take out an icon as beloved as Cosby with that weapon, take out someone who helped heal racism in America, I have little doubt they will use it against Ben Carson should he decide to run for president. Or anyone like him. And if the accusation of rape itself (without racism) grows political teeth because of this, I also have little doubt we are going to see people being accused of rape all over the place in the near future.

And reality?

Real rape victims will continue to be victims without a voice, real black people who are suffering will continue to suffer without hope, and the world will continue to turn as the government slowly grows.

Those are my suspicions.

Forgive me if I get creeped out by this stuff.

Michael

[Darrell Hougen]

You make some very astute observations, Michael. If these new (rehashed) memes are part of a concerted effort on the part of the left to minimize the effect of the election drubbing that Dems received in the mid terms, one might expect to find evidence of coordination.

Remember "JournoList"? That was the list hundreds of left-leaning news reporters and journalists subscribed to discuss what to talk about and to plot strategy. There's a Breitbart article here about an attack that was orchestrated against Sarah Palin after she was nominated to be VP on the Republican ticket in 2008. A recent Breitbart article contains hints that there might still be a JournoList in existence. Apparently, there is a once secret list called GameJournoPros that Breitbart just revealed in September of 2014. Here are some of the juicy tidbits from that article (emphasis added):

This new leak follows an earlier release of emails dated August, which showed games journalists

joking about having sex with public relations executives and game developers.

It was an unfortunate choice of topic given that the video game journalism industry had just been rocked by revelations that developer Zoe Quinn -- allegedly according to her ex-boyfriend -- had enjoyed five sexual relationships in quick succession with industry figures, including a journalist, while receiving lavish praise for her Depression Quest game and being in receipt of financial support from journalists who reported on her.

...

The #GamerGate hashtag, which has swept social media in recent weeks, has been used by gamers to express their disappointment in widespread ethical failures by video game journalists, who have allowed far-Left feminist campaigners to saturate the news agenda with allegations of "misogyny" and sexism directed not just at games studios but at ordinary gamers themselves.

But it's not just GamerGaters who are capable of ugly behaviour. Reporters sympathetic to the #GamerGate movement have had their home addresses and phone numbers published online and have been sent toilet rolls and unsheathed syringes containing unknown liquids via ordinary mail.

So, in support of your hypotheticals above, it appears that there really has been a coordinated attempt to brand game developers and players as misogynists and sexists. This could well be part of a larger coordinated effort to push the misogyny meme. In fact, there has been a not so secret public campaign against the "war on women" which is really just a campaign to make the left's political opponents appear to be misogynists. The campaign clearly has a public face and a secret agenda as well.

Darrell

[PDS]

There is one thing (among others) that I do not understand. Cosby is largely washed up. Why go after him now, as opposed to when he was truly at the "peak" of his popularity as a counter-cultural spokesman against the mores of black culture? The timing of a smear job motivation seems off to me, especally there are obvious statute of limitations problems with a number of the accusations, so monetary gain is not all that likely.

David,

I want to take a crack at this. And let this be an example of my paranoia escaping from the barn for a bit.

1. Let's start with a big picture view--in terms of power in the USA, the biggest. The Presidency. There is an event coming up that is going to seriously clip Obama's wings (which means the wings of the machine behind him). A Republican majority Congress is going to be sworn in starting January. Obama does not have much time to maneuver, but he is a master at orchestrating public opinion and playing dirty tricks backstage. Look up COBS-Consortium Of Behavioral Scientists, for example. The IRS targeting of Tea Party groups. Blaming the Benghazi fiasco on an anti-Islamic video because it interfered with his election narrative of having Al Qaeda on the run. And on and on and on. The point is, irrespective of whether he and his people are involved in the Cosby mess, they do these things. They've done a lot of these things. So it's not unreasonable to look at them at a time like this.

2. Big government politicians on the other side do these things, too. Look at what they did to Herman Cain during the Republican primaries. Suddenly there were white women coming out of the woodworks saying Herman Cain had sex with them. And they talked in graphic terms. I remember one image where a woman talked about how he pushed her head down into his crotch. Stuff like that.

This plays into an old painful fear-inducing archetype in the American psyche that is left over from Civil War days and before--the black stud or buck defiling a white woman. This apparently still resonates although, on a personal level, when I look inside myself, I feel nothing. However, I can't help but notice people tend to get a lot more emotional when this image is in front of them.

Ditto for noticing something else, too. Once Herman Cain declared he was no longer running, these women disappeared. Where are they now? Where have they been since then? Nobody knows. Their appearance-and-disappearance act was like an on-off switch.

3. The substantive political division in the USA is not Democrat vs. Republican, not where power is concerned. It is small government vs. big government. On issues where the government can grow, there is not too much of a fight between Democrats and Republicans. The real fight occurs between them in the scramble for power itself. And in this scramble, the progressive wing of the Democrats is very well organized. Notice that when it floats an issue, all of the main spokespeople say the same thing. Identical words.

4. The progressives on Obama's team are currently using two topics like themes in a novel for getting people riled up: rape and racism. On the racism side, look at the riots happening here. And on the rape side, notice that Bill Cosby is not the only one who has been recently accused of rape in the mainstream. Several others have been accused, also. Since all of this appears to be happening at the same time--all by itself--but since some of the rape accusations are falling apart from outright fraud, it's reasonable to assume orchestration is going on and there might be fraud in other events. The question is why are they doing that?

5. Let's start with racism. My theory is most people are busy living their lives, going to work or school, dealing with their family dramas or melodramas, keeping their heads in electronic entertainment or other forms of amusement, and pursuing personal concerns in general. When there is a lot of mayhem and fear-inducing destruction right in their faces day after day after day, there reaches a point where they say make it stop. I want to get back to my life so will someone please make it stop? And, coincidentally, miracle of miracles, there actually is someone--he's in the wings with strong arm measures ready to go. He will step up at the right time and say he can make it all go away if he can just have the power to do so. If the pain is great enough, people give him that power. This is how the game has been played since the beginning of human history. I believe the current racial agitation has this behind it. Obama & Co. need a way to balance the coming situation where they will lose control for all practical purposes.

6. When I look at the majority of the cases where there are race riots and demonstrations, Treyvon Martin, Michael Brown, etc., I notice a common characteristic. These are not cases where someone is clearly in the wrong and someone else in the right, but the agitators seem to defend thugs or people who act like thugs. So they already come with inherent conflict and confusion. More than that, from all the conflicting stories by witnesses and so-called experts, it's easy to see many people distort facts on purpose. There is an enormous amount of yelling. Why?

I believe it's because of the long legs the story grows this way. They choose stories and elements--especially conflict and confusion--they can milk for a long time. A case of clear injustice would die public-interest-wise as soon as it was resolved. Notice that the Eric Garner case has this same element, except the thug slant leans to the police side. But it fuels the same fire because it has legs, not because one side is right or wrong.

7. It's sad to say the following, but it has to be said. The only people rioting (as a group) are black people. I believe many black people themselves are getting sick of it, too. So the only way to keep them riled up is to keep shoving victims in their faces and yelling loudly about it in the media.

8. Enter Bill Cosby.

When all this rape stuff started in the media, he was making a comeback. He had two TV shows in the works, a tour, a book, projects and on and on. He was not in favor of all this rioting and racial agenda. His megaphone would have spoken loudly to lots of black people had his projects resulted in the success he had before. If the riots are to continue so people will yell please make it stop, Cosby had to be stopped. He had to be discredited. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

And if it turns out he's guilty, that's gravy. But guilty and innocent are not a fundamental part of this game.

9. So I think the progressives on Obama's side looked at what the conservative progressives did to Herman Cain and thought you know, that archetype works to get the public riled up enough to take out a conservative black man and the racism that drives this doesn't backfire on us. So they decided to run a trial on Bill Cosby. And it grew. It's now at the point where on CNN with Don Lemon, he not only interviewed five white women in one sitting claiming rape by Cosby, they were all blonde. Another coincidence? Or is this manipulating an archetype?

10. On the same day of this interview, I saw a montage of Hillary, Obama, Holder, etc., etc., etc., saying in different recent speeches, "All lives matter." But they were saying it in a context of only black lives. And the striking point was that they all used the same terminology. Identical words. Coincidence or backstage orchestration?

11. In very simple terms, since a lot of the rape stuff has exploded as false, but the Cosby story "took" with the public--probably because of the power of the archetype--the backstage manipulators are throwing two main fraudsters, the Rolling Stone reporter and Lena Dunham, to the pack of hungry piranhas on the conservative side and pouring everything they've got on top of Cosby. It's working so run with it.

12. In one sense, Cosby can be a very good test to see how far they can push the big black dude raping white women meme. If they can take out an icon as beloved as Cosby with that weapon, take out someone who helped heal racism in America, I have little doubt they will use it against Ben Carson should he decide to run for president. Or anyone like him. And if the accusation of rape itself (without racism) grows political teeth because of this, I also have little doubt we are going to see people being accused of rape all over the place in the near future.

And reality?

Real rape victims will continue to be victims without a voice, real black people who are suffering will continue to suffer without hope, and the world will continue to turn as the government slowly grows.

Those are my suspicions.

Forgive me if I get creeped out by this stuff.

Michael

MSK: thank you for your thoughtful response.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Right here I split some posts off to a new thread: The GamerGate Mess--It's Philosophical.

Michael

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Just for the record--Slate:

A Complete List of the Women Who Have Accused Bill Cosby of Sexual Assault

And Cosby finally said something (not much, but his wife is standing with him)--NY Post:

Upbeat Cosby expects ‘black media’ to stay neutral

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

WTF is "black media"? Ebony? This must be his way of saying Whitie is out to get him, which is true but much too broad. White liberal mainstream media is out to get him but he's not interested*, at least not yet (if he knows this), in firing off such a broadside. I suspect he's marshaling his forces by at least telling black journalists not to choose the wrong side and white journalists they may be lynching**.

--Brant

*speculation alert!

**speculations alert!

[anthony]

I think he's heading off any excitable, biased support from 'the black media'.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Camille, Cosby's wife, is standing by him. She says the false Rolling Stone report on rape at the University of Virginia shows how the media vets this stuff. And that media people were constantly linking the two stories until the Rolling Stone story unwound.

As for the media's response to Cosby, they are pissed he asked for neutrality in reporting from the black media, insinuating that the white media is corrupt. (Which it is. But so is the black media.)

Archetype-wise, there are hints that the media wants to paint Cosby as the "House Negro" (constantly saying he has been protected by the "establishment" all these years), but they are treading a bit carefully. I don't think they are going to contain themselves, though, and I predict this attempt will eventually burst through big time. The mainstream media folks love to Gruber all over themselves in explaining how normal people are stupid and need to be told how things really are.

That might work, but it also might backfire. That's the thing with archetypes. The outcome of core stories is not precise, even with a well-oiled propaganda machine pumping.

Michael

[Robert Campbell]

With Bill Cosby, I have not researched the charges against him, or had the opportunity to form an opinion.

But the timing of their media coverage is another matter.

One other thing: we may be quite sure that when Sabrina Rubin Erdely was looking for a sensational story of rape at a fraternity house, she neither sought, nor planned to run, any story involving a historically African-American fraternity (which UVA must have several of).

Such are the manifold internal contradictions of identity politics.

Robert Campbell

[Brant Gaede]

There is also the phony CIA torture report and media everybody saying how bad "torture" is. It seems like none of that torture was real torture. Waterboarding as torture is a joke. But it must be torture, it seems, for it got the so-called tortured to talk. I'm not psychologically tough enough to be a torturer and real torturers damage themselves quite horribly, but I would skin Hitler alive to save one Jew--plus much worse if that was needed--but as soon as that Jew was saved I'd end it--by quickly killing him. So you waterboard a terrorist to keep his fellow terrorists from attacking a school in Pakistan and killing over a hundred and twenty staff and children. BFD!

--Brant

goody, goody people are only good for a goody goody world, but they keep telling you to be a goody goody too until the shit hits the fan and then they cower behind you--which is where I want them (all the time) for they don't want to be strapped to the front of that tank coming at me even if it's being driven by goody goodies

[Francisco Ferrer]

There is also the phony CIA torture report and media everybody saying how bad "torture" is. It seems like none of that torture was real torture. Waterboarding as torture is a joke.

Perhaps the U.S. should apologize to Japan for executing Japanese officials who used waterboarding against American military personnel in World War II. It was not torture; it was a joke.

Another character who didn't get the joke can be found here.

[Jules Troy]

Reading your posts could be construed as torture...

[Brant Gaede]

There is also the phony CIA torture report and media everybody saying how bad "torture" is. It seems like none of that torture was real torture. Waterboarding as torture is a joke.

Perhaps the U.S. should apologize to Japan for executing Japanese officials who used waterboarding against American military personnel in World War II. It was not torture; it was a joke.

Another character who didn't get the joke can be found here.

We'd need more detail about what the Japanese did for a first-hand conclusion. Your link only provides a conclusion. I'd be surprised if not more than "waterboarding" was used. Hanging only for waterboarding is kind of strange after the US burned alive and blew up 500 to 700 thousand Japanese by bombing their cities after we greatly provoked them to attacking us to get us into WWII to fight Hitler so we could do the same to Dresden. Look, I'm all for suckering the Japanese to fight the Nazis--in one consideration--back them. They were all bad boys, after all. But out of grace we could have simply stopped fighting them before Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Why not? We were in bed with the commies? You know them? Stalin? The mass murderer. I know why. The lie the war was based on would have been revealed. The lie of Pearl Harbor.

The Hitchens story is interesting but he wasn't tortured. First, if you can say "Stop!" and it is stopped and if you weren't stripped naked, it's not any torture to speak of. Torture is a process and the to be tortured has no say about it and no clothes--not a stitch--for he must have the idea that if he can be tortured he could and might be killed even to the point of wishing for death and his humanity is no more than a piece of meat pieces can be cut off of--and might be. The victim is to be totally scared out of his mind. Real torture is not an "advanced interrogation technique" although some torturers may think so. It's fuck over the prisoner to fuck up the prisoner even to the point of killing him. Real torturers need to be delusional about this so they can go home each day to their wives and children and sleep well. They seldom do the end result killing themselves though some do that too for someone even scarier is right behind them making them. Imagine being fed feet first alive into an Iraqi wood chipper or tossed out of a helicopter into the South Atlantic ocean.

I have or used to have a book on how to torture (Physical Interrogation Techniques) and was subject to some mild examples in my army training--milder than waterboarding--and was told by a fellow Green Beret intelligence sergeant (I was a medic) that he knew if he were captured and the communists put his balls in a vise he'd tell them everything he knew right away, strongly implying he wouldn't ever he captured. Considering his MOS he could easily have had intelligence worth torturing for.

I endorse waterboarding. I don't endorse the wars. So much then for that.

--Brant

waterboarding: "torture" by pussies--70,000 Americans have been waterboardered as part of their training; not one had their fingernails pulled out or electrodes attached to their genitals and the switch thrown--"journalists" have even volunteered to be waterboarded--why would they do that if it's so damn bad?

Isn't OL better suited for my good side and the usual effete subjects?--I could next discuss using flame throwers to burn soldiers in bunkers alive or how I loved naplam--yep, if you're shooting at me I love the naplam the F-100 drops on you; I want you dead and I'd give up sex for the next ten years for another bomb run (heh, actually without that I might have to give it up forever, including my next meal)

War is hell and you can't refine it--Sherman

[Selene]

http://www.hyscience.com/waterboarding.jpg

[Gary Fisher]

Waterboarding is torture, and the CIA used a lot more than waterboarding, and also lied to the government about it. The torture did not make us any safer and now our international rep is shot to pieces. Good job.