This One's for George--Galt's Gulch sorta

[Ellen Stuttle]

a woman should be able to walk nude through any neighborhood without being raped and no blame attached for stupidity if she chose the wrong neighborhood.

Note: the opinion Wolf quotes is not mine. I was reporting an argument - with which I disagree - that someone on another list used to make.

Ellen

[caroljane]

a woman should be able to walk nude through any neighborhood without being raped and no blame attached for stupidity if she chose the wrong neighborhood.

Note: the opinion Wolf quotes is not mine. I was reporting an argument - with which I disagree - that someone on another list used to make.

Ellen

Of course and I think we all got the point.

Personally I have wandered around the neighbourhood wearing very few clothes . was not ever molested.indeed probably not even Been noticed".... It was just really hot.

[Wolf DeVoon]

duplicate post:

The rather queer addition by Wolf seems to be that a firestorm of death is called for on a larger scale than merely drowning or burning everyone in Detroit

I see it's easy to be misunderstood. My remark was intended to convey incredulity about water or fire, even as a joke, because the problem is bigger than one city, and I said that we're needed more than ever to offer a creative solution (something other than genocide -- duh).

We can't carry on as we have, paying big benefits that Brant mentioned. It's a disease, metastatic and fatal.

In the past I urged people to leave. That's not a cure. It's quitting -- undoubtedly correct for an individual, absolutely right and just. But the question remains, what can we do for the Republic? There must be something we can do to stop the bloodshed and free more victims.

[Ellen Stuttle]

Hey, he was pretty cute in 1974.

How many kids he have?

According to the Wikipedia article on Paul Ehrlich:

Ehrlich is Jewish and has been married to Anne H. Ehrlich (born Anne Fitzhugh Howland, 1933) since 1954; he and Anne are parents to one child, Lisa Marie.[38]

Ellen

[caroljane]

Goodness gracious , great balls of fire, how culturally perfect is that?

[moralist]

those Chile-rooked people pretty much got what they deserved in that case...

Of course they did.

but generalizations destroy and ignore myriad exceptions and Greg's moral narcissism is only good for a narcissist's narcissism and for those who don't swallow it whole

Well, that's where we each differ, Brant.

In my view it is impossible for a transaction to take place between predator and prey without their moral values matching. That's what "a meeting of the minds" is.

NO matching values... NO transaction.

It is impossible to take advantage without "the sanction of the sucker".

Greg

[moralist]

I do know you purport to be a Christian, which I am also, but I do not, recall Christ advocating beyond the eye for an eye.

That phrase actually has a different meaning than most people take away from it. In the Old Testament it meant that the eye of a rich man is not worth more under the law than the eye of a poor man... or that justice should be equal whether rich or poor.

Another constantly repeated error is the inferring that not "taking the name of the Lord in vain" refers to swearing. It does not. The literal translation is "not carrying the banner of the Lord falsely", or not doing evil under the color of religious authority. Which is especially heinous as it encourages people to hate God. (...not that they need that much encouragement )

He was kind of about forgiveness and common humanity and stuff which sounds so lame now, but was kinda revolutionary at the time.

Forgiveness implies a certain wisdom of knowing when, where, how, and who to forgive. It is not a blind mindless act directed indiscriminately at everyone.

And humanity is not "common". As Viktor Frankel would say, there are two races... the decent and the indecent.

Greg

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

the sanction of the sucker...

Greg,

Let people say what they wish, that is one hell of a great phrase.

Michael

[moralist]

I do have my occasional moments, Michael...

Greg

[Selene]

Yes you do.

Kinda descriptive of lots of hunman actions...

1) a black voter voting for O'bama the second time;

2) a white voter voting for O'bama the second time;

3) an Asian voter voting for O'bama the second time; and

4) a Latino voter voting for O'bama the second time.

Oh, and of couse the OL voter who voted for O'bama the first, or, second time.

A...

[Jonathan]

Taxes are the cost of living in this world just as it is right now. I have no power to set government public policy, and because I have no control over government public policy I also have no responsibility for it.

Now I do have the power to change how I live in this world just as it is right now. So I learned to live in a way so that paying taxes has no effect on the quality of my life in "Galt's Gulch". And because I am the only one who has the power to set the moral tone within my own sphere of personal influence... that is where my own personal moral responsibility rightly belongs. In America, the value of money is that it can be used to literally buy your economic freedom.

So I'm totally ok with your expressed denial of moral causality for your own actions, because you're the one who gets the consequences you deserve from living by your own view... and not me. That's just the way the world is. People will always have different views.

So live and die with yours, and I'll do the same with mine.

Greg

Ah, I see how it works! When Greg is a victim of others who have power over him, it's not his fault because he has "no control" and "no responsibility," but when people other than Greg are victims, they are at fault despite also having no control or responsibility.

Everyone but Greg "gets the consequences" that they "deserve." Moral causality applies to everyone but Greg.

Btw, if I'm the perfect sucker for cheats, why is that I've never been cheated?

That's even better... you don't know it.

I feel like I'm talking to a second-grader.

J

[Jonathan]

Leaving aside Greg's plodding around circular paths like a mine pony around a mine shaft, what about substituting "asked to be" for "deserved to be"? I don't see the people rooked in the Galt's Gulch business as morally innocent in their avoidable stupidity. (I don't know what the reference to Cheryl Araujo is about and didn't look it up. I'm reminded, however, of an argument one of the posters on Atlantis 1 and 2 used to make to the effect that a woman should be able to walk nude through any neighborhood without being raped and no blame attached for stupidity if she chose the wrong neighborhood.)

Ellen

Yeah, as I said earlier, I think it depends on the circumstances. There's a point at which one is "asking for it" due to one's own stupidity.

J

[Selene]

Taxes are the cost of living in this world just as it is right now. I have no power to set government public policy, and because I have no control over government public policy I also have no responsibility for it.

Now I do have the power to change how I live in this world just as it is right now. So I learned to live in a way so that paying taxes has no effect on the quality of my life in "Galt's Gulch". And because I am the only one who has the power to set the moral tone within my own sphere of personal influence... that is where my own personal moral responsibility rightly belongs. In America, the value of money is that it can be used to literally buy your economic freedom.

So I'm totally ok with your expressed denial of moral causality for your own actions, because you're the one who gets the consequences you deserve from living by your own view... and not me. That's just the way the world is. People will always have different views.

So live and die with yours, and I'll do the same with mine.

Greg

Ah, I see how it works! When Greg is a victim of others who have power over him, it's not his fault because he has "no control" and "no responsibility," but when people other than Greg are victims, they are at fault despite also having no control or responsibility.

Everyone but Greg "gets the consequences" that they "deserve." Moral causality applies to everyone but Greg.

Btw, if I'm the perfect sucker for cheats, why is that I've never been cheated?

That's even better... you don't know it.

I feel like I'm talking to a second-grader.

J

Yeah, however...

from the mouths of babes...Mathew 21:16 ...

King James Bible

And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?

Now in plain English:

New Living Translation

They asked Jesus, "Do you hear what these children are saying?" "Yes," Jesus replied. "Haven't you ever read the Scriptures? For they say, 'You have taught children and infants to give you praise.'"

[moralist]

Taxes are the cost of living in this world just as it is right now. I have no power to set government public policy, and because I have no control over government public policy I also have no responsibility for it.

Now I do have the power to change how I live in this world just as it is right now. So I learned to live in a way so that paying taxes has no effect on the quality of my life in "Galt's Gulch". And because I am the only one who has the power to set the moral tone within my own sphere of personal influence... that is where my own personal moral responsibility rightly belongs. In America, the value of money is that it can be used to literally buy your economic freedom.

So I'm totally ok with your expressed denial of moral causality for your own actions, because you're the one who gets the consequences you deserve from living by your own view... and not me. That's just the way the world is. People will always have different views.

So live and die with yours, and I'll do the same with mine.

Greg

Ah, I see how it works! When Greg is a victim of others who have power over him, it's not his fault because he has "no control" and "no responsibility," but when people other than Greg are victims, they are at fault despite also having no control or responsibility.

Everyone but Greg "gets the consequences" that they "deserve." Moral causality applies to everyone but Greg.

Jonathan, you totally misunderstood...

because you're the one who gets the consequences you deserve from living by your own view... and not me.[

All this means is that I don't get the consequences you deserve from living by your own view.

I certainly get my own!

The difference between us is that I know I'm getting exactly what I deserve, because I understand the moral causality of my own actions. And it is this understanding which sets me free from angrily blaming (unjustly accusing) others for the just and deserved consequences I set into motion.

I'm happy to get exactly what I deserve.

Greg

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Hello all,

Nice to meet all of you. I am always interested in attempts to create what these sort of projects at last claim to develop. (It is sad it was a fraud.)

If any of you have any names of people who would like to try again somwewhere else (in America) on a project that would work the connections would be much appreciated. It is too bad I do not have ways of knowing when and where initial meetings take place to interviene with a plan that would work.

Having said that, let's assume for a minute everything on this project was on the up-and-up and many people did come to this place. There is no way this project was ever going to resemble anything like the "Galt's Gultch' in Atlas Shrugged.

If it continued on its courcse, there would be a time in the begining when the local gov't would not feel threatened by it because it would be too small, and thus, it would have stayed 'under the radar' (so to speak) of their concern.

If it would have grown larger then would be in place to stop any gov't from regulating and taxing anyone involved in it anyway.

If it is argued it was only to be a place for the rich to vacation and/or reside, there are plenty of places that satisfy that limited criteria without saying it is like "Galt's Gultch."

I heard of this project a long time ago before it was found to be a fraud but still knew it would never work.

[Brant Gaede]

Hello all,

Nice to meet all of you. I am always interested in attempts to create what these sort of projects at last claim to develop. (It is sad it was a fraud.)

If any of you have any names of people who would like to try again somwewhere else (in America) on a project that would work the connections would be much appreciated. It is too bad I do not have ways of knowing when and where initial meetings take place to interviene with a plan that would work.

Having said that, let's assume for a minute everything on this project was on the up-and-up and many people did come to this place. There is no way this project was ever going to resemble anything like the "Galt's Gultch' in Atlas Shrugged.

If it continued on its courcse, there would be a time in the begining when the local gov't would not feel threatened by it because it would be too small, and thus, it would have stayed 'under the radar' (so to speak) of their concern.

If it would have grown larger then would be in place to stop any gov't from regulating and taxing anyone involved in it anyway.

If it is argued it was only to be a place for the rich to vacation and/or reside, there are plenty of places that satisfy that limited criteria without saying it is like "Galt's Gultch."

I heard of this project a long time ago before it was found to be a fraud but still knew it would never work.

The best people to socialize with are those that think but are ignorant of your ideas so they'll be grateful for the info. It's not so good to in the face hang out with ideological buddies for they so easily turn on or bore each other.

--Brant

you say slice the bread and I say break the bread and since the Bible mentions the breaking of bread it's my way not your way!

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Not really interested in socializing. There is an abundance of chitchat on the web.

I do however find many articles similar to this after a bad idea blows up. Never found anyone serious before they make a mistake like this.

Too bad time and money get wasted ventures like this. Like the FSP or building a really big ship to sail factories on it (just a stupuid wastes).

[Selene]

Not really interested in socializing. There is an abundance of chitchat on the web.

I do however find many articles similar to this after a bad idea blows up. Never found anyone serious before they make a mistake like this.

Too bad time and money get wasted ventures like this. Like the FSP or building a really big ship to sail factories on it (just a stupuid wastes).

Out of curiosity, how would you structure a "place" like that in order to increase it's viability?

And of course, welcome to OL,Rumple.

A...

[Brant Gaede]

Socializing or not you're here with no identity at all as there is zilch in your profile. Even an artificial ID is okay if it reflects something of who you actually are. Repeating your made-up name doesn't help. A delimited precis of your #115 would do the trick as the profile sticks around and #115 slips into obscurity.

--Brant

[moralist]

If any of you have any names of people who would like to try again somewhere else (in America) on a project that would work the connections would be much appreciated.

Looking for suckers?

I doubt you'll find any here. That's because there is no such thing as a "Collectivist Galt's Gulch". It's an oxymoron. You either build your own or you don't do it at all. No one else will build it for you. They'll only take your money just like you want to take money from others.

"The easiest man to con is a con man."

Greg

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Greg you are a brainless dumbass.

[Jules Troy]

Greg you are a brainless dumbass.

[Jules Troy]

Shush you! That's my roll! ?

[william.scherk]

Greg you are a brainless dumbass.

Wow, three OL posts and you move on to be an expert on humanity.

I tend to appreciate Greg as a personality (he epitomizes self-reliance and details how to achieve a personal Mulligan's Hidden Valley) but skip by his religious dogma, and his awkward jumbles of Christophilism and Karma. Although I have serious disagreements with him on a number of other issues, I will take his side here against beginner invective.

Amateur.

[Selene]

Greg you are a brainless dumbass.

Rump:

Coming from a person that we here at OL know virtually nothing about, that statement stands alone.

However, I see that you elected to not answer my inquiry about your "structure" for an actual community for objectivists/libertarians.

Out of curiosity, this being a philosophy that has rational thinking as one of it's highest values, how did you conclude that Greg is what you declared he was?

A....