Southern states become Rand paradise

[Southern Capitalist]

Fellow member Selene passed this on to me, in which I would like to make a post of it.

Papantonio: Southern States Become Ayn Rand Paradise (VIDEO)

Posted on May 3, 2013 by Gary Bentley •

The following interview is from the April 28th, 2013 episode of Ring of Fire on Free Speech TV. Republicans have a strangle hold on state governments throughout the south. Because of this, they have been able to implement all sorts of policies that would make Ayn Rand weep with joy. Ring of Fire host Mike Papantonio talks about the new Ayn Rand paradise in the south with investigative journalist Rick Outzen.

http://www.ringoffireradio.com/2013/05/03/papantonio-southern-states-become-ayn-rand-paradise-video/

There is so much wrong with the information in this video.

Let me start by saying, "yes, Rand would be please with the Southern states" the region promotes Individualism, Capitalism, private property, and low taxes.

Let me start by explaining one thing. The South's cost of living is very low. Unlike what the video says this does not mean its full of poverty. Around 50K a year a family can live very well. Very well as in a decent 3000 sqft house. few acres of land, couple cars, and all the toys a man needs like motorcycles, 5.0 Mustang etc etc. The average individual income is 36K, so the average married couple in the South live well.

This Mike Papantino apparently does not know this. Contrary to what he says in the video the region is booming. All except Mississippi, its having a tough time.

Due to the south being very capitalistic let me give statistics of my home state and some others to show "Rands ideas" are working.

Unemployment:

Alabama: 6.9% 2 years ago before lord Obama cut out a lot of the drilling it was 3.3%,

Florida: 7.2

Georgia: 8.2

Texas: 6.4

Louisiana: 6.5

Keep in mind this percentage is all AFTER the BP oil spill and the Gulf Coast Natural gas and oil drilling was cut out by this Administration. Before that happened all southern states was doing well and also keep in mind the Gulf Coast is constantly bombed with hurricanes Every year.

Within the last decade the following companies have made Alabama their home to some plants:

Austals

ThyssenKrupp

Hyundai

Mitsubishi

Airbus

Northrop Grumman

Outokumpo

Evoniks

DPS Midstream

Chevron

Alabama also has Shell, Exxon, and yellowhammer plants.

How did this dumb hick state as they say accomplish this? by offering tax breaks and low land cost. Welcome to the business f Capitalism. Alabama set its goals on business and industry. Some cities such as Mobile do try for a little tourist attraction. I disagree with this and say leave it to Gulf shores to promote the beaches. We have become a industrious state, STICK WITH IT! Its working.

Louisiana and Texas is also booming with their industrial fields. If we can hurry and get a Administration in power that will let us drill for Natural Gas and oil we would have a very small percentage of unemployment across the south.

Tax Rate:

Tenn is the 3rd lowest state tax in the nation

Alabama is 5th in the nation

Texas is 8th

S. Carolina is 2nd

etc

Far as poverty, because the cost of living is so low in the south. You don't have to make to much cash to live comfortably.

The south has always promoted Capitalism. If you took religion out of the region it would be considered a Libertarian region. It is a Conservative and Libertarian region as of now. However, the area is becoming more open minded as the years past. Libertarianism is growing every year.

I ask you to look at which way Southern states vote in every election. One thing southerners can say, "hey, don't blame us, we voted for the other guy".

The reason I made this post is I see everyday the Media and other sources flame the south. I was in Boston and in a bar the guy couldn't believe I had shoes on. Should of seen his face when I told him I lived in a city bigger than Boston and yes im from Alabama. If you see something about the south on the news. They always pick the dude in a wife beater with no teeth.

This is not the case.

Sorry for boring you but wanted fellow Objectivist to know the truth.

The South promotes Capitalism. Its economy after natural disasters and the United States is drowning itself in bankruptcy still stands and continue to grow even with the anti-drilling banns are in place.

So Ayn Rands paradise is working. We just need the government to leave us alone and let us handle our industries and allow us to drill and we will prove Capitalism works and the benefit of the oil industries will help the entire nation.

Emanuel

[Southern Capitalist]

Let me add to this a quote from someone all of you know, "sell everything you have, and move to the South" - Glenn Beck

[Kyle Jacob Biodrowski]

Is Nebraska considered to be "in the South"?

Guess it depends on who you ask...

[caroljane]

Is Nebraska considered to be "in the South"?

Guess it depends on who you ask...

Definitely it is in the south, if you ask me.

[Kyle Jacob Biodrowski]

Is Nebraska considered to be "in the South"?

Guess it depends on who you ask...

Definitely it is in the south, if you ask me.

But you're Canadian. I'm sure you consider North Dakota to be in the south.

[Southern Capitalist]

Nebraska is considered the "Mid West" however, the beleifs and way of living are very much the same. Right below is where it is considered "The South" from Texas to the Carolinas, Florida to Tennessee. Some say Kentucky. Theres a lot of individuals in Kentucky that considers themselves to be. This logic applies to the Mid West. The way of living is very similar. Slow paced, good mannered, promoting invidualsim and industry. Their main industry is farming, mining, etc etc.

If it interest you, Wikipedia totally flames the region with the typical slander that occurs from most educational outlet. But statistics usually dont lie. Its not for everyone. But for many, its a Capitalist and "self reliant" type atmosphere. Theres bad areas like any region and the cities within the regions. But most is spread open and typically decent people around.

Anyway Wkipedia did get this part correct.

As defined by the United States Census Bureau, the Southern region of the United States includes sixteen states. As of 2010, an estimated 114,555,744 people, or thirty-seven percent of all U.S. residents, lived in the South, the nation's most populous region. The Census Bureau defined three smaller units, or divisions:

• The South Atlantic States: Florida, Georgia, Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, and Delaware
• The East South Central States: Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi and Tennessee
• The West South Central States: Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, and Texas.

Other terms related to the South include:

• The Old South: can mean either the slave states that existed in 1776 (Virginia, Delaware, Maryland, Georgia, North Carolina, and South Carolina, or all the slave states before 1860 (which included the newer states of Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Texas.).
• The New South: usually including the South Atlantic States.
• The Solid South: region controlled by the Democratic Party from 1877 to 1964. Includes at least all the 11 former Confederate States
• Southern Appalachia: mainly refers to areas situated in the Southern Appalachian Mountains, namely Eastern Kentucky, East Tennessee, Western North Carolina, Western Maryland, West Virginia, Southwest Virginia, North Georgia, and Northwestern South Carolina
• Southeastern United States: usually including the Carolinas, the Virginias, Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Florida and at times Maryland and Delaware
• The Deep South: various definitions, usually including Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, and South Carolina. Occasionally, parts of adjoining states are included (sections of East Texas, delta areas of Arkansas and Tennessee, and parts of Florida such as the Panhandle and the north-central part of the state).
• The Gulf South: various definitions, usually including Gulf coasts of Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas and Alabama.
• The Upper South: Kentucky, Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, Tennessee, North Carolina, and occasionally Missouri and Delaware
• Dixie: various definitions, but most commonly associated with the 11 states of the Old Confederacy.
• The Mid-South: Various definitions, including that of the Census Bureau of the East and West South Central United States;in another informal definition, Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi, and sometimes adjoining areas of other states.
• Border South: Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware were states on the outer rim of the Confederacy that did not secede from the United States, but did have significant numbers of residents who joined the Confederate armed forces. Kentucky and Missouri had Confederate governments in exile and were represented in the Confederate Congress and by the Confederate battle flag. West Virginia formed in 1863 after the western region broke away from Virginia, though support for the Confederacy and the Union in the new state was about evenly divided.

The way i look at it. Anyone can claim to be a Southern. Its not a direction, but a "way of life". Come sometime, you will always be treated good.

[Robert Baratheon]

I personally recommend those seeking liberty move to either New Hampshire or Virginia, depending on your climate preferences and whether you want more of the New England or Southern lifestyle. They are both among the highest-income-earning states in the U.S., have deep-seeded individualist cultures, keep government more or less "out of your face," and are consistently rated in the top states for business.

[Southern Capitalist]

I personally recommend those seeking liberty move to either New Hampshire or Virginia, depending on your climate preferences and whether you want more of the New England or Southern lifestyle. They are both among the highest-income-earning states in the U.S., have deep-seeded individualist cultures, keep government more or less "out of your face," and are consistently rated in the top states for business.

Agreed, and there's city style or unban style living. Wooded or beach style as well.

[syrakusos]

The truth is that the south is horrible for business. Here is an objective appraisal. It was posted to the "Door 64" local Austin group on LinkedIn.

Regarding the USA, the researchers found out that a particularly large number of people with an entrepreneurial personality structure live in the Western States (e.g. in Colorado and Utah). In comparison, this personality structure is on average particularly rare in the so-called Rust Belt of the United States and in the East South Central States (e.g., Mississippi). Moreover the researchers found substantial correlations between the geographic distribution of the entrepreneurial personality structure and the regional distribution of the actual entrepreneurial activity (for instance the number of start-up businesses in the region). "We discovered that to a large extent the 'psychological' map actually coincided with the economical map of the USA," says Dr. Obschonka. The researchers also found indication that the region's personality make-up and the region's entrepreneurial climate (e.g., local business conditions conducive to entrepreneurship) interact in determining the rate for establishing new firms within the region.

Where entrepreneurship is at home

Psychologists compile maps of an entrepreneurial personality structure for the United States, Germany, and the United Kingdom

http://www.uni-jena.de/en/News/PM130531_Unternehmergeist.html

The truth is that Virginia looks "good for business" only because of the federal government. Lobbyists, consultants, contractors, and others like them all have hefty incomes courtesy of the rest of the nation. Four of the ten wealthiest counties in the USA are suburbs of Washington DC.

The South is bad for business and has a low standard of living for the same reason: lack of education. The people there are largely ignorant. The multinational corporations that locate in the south count on that for "worker loyalty." If you look at those MNCs, they are traditional manufacturers from Germany and Japan. They are not high-tech, leading edge, innovators.

For many years, mainstream criminologists accepted the theory that the violence in the Black community was rooted in their own "culture of violence." However, by examining primary evidence from hospital emergency rooms, it was demonstrated that the "culture of violence" is not Black, but Southern. The African-American community only inherited it from the wider culture from which they came. The correlations include hegemonic masculinity - defending your honor; not backing down from a fight - and a disproportionate willingness to volunteer for military service.

[Robert Baratheon]

The truth is that Virginia looks "good for business" only because of the federal government. Lobbyists, consultants, contractors, and others like them all have hefty incomes courtesy of the rest of the nation. Four of the ten wealthiest counties in the USA are suburbs of Washington DC.

The South is bad for business and has a low standard of living for the same reason: lack of education. The people there are largely ignorant. The multinational corporations that locate in the south count on that for "worker loyalty." If you look at those MNCs, they are traditional manufacturers from Germany and Japan. They are not high-tech, leading edge, innovators.

Not so. Virginia is consistently ranked among the best states for business based on a variety of factors that have little, if anything, to do with its proximity to the Federal government. For example, look at this widely circulated CNBC ranking from 2011 that put Virginia at the top of the list:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100000994

The categories were: cost of business, workforce, quality of life, economy, infrastructure and transportation, technology and innovation, education, business friendliness, access to capital, and cost of living. Saying Virginia (a very large state, most of which isn't near DC) ranked highly across all these factors solely due to the Federal government is a rather silly assertion and a prime example of what Taleb calls the "narrative fallacy" - explaining away any inconvenient information that doesn't fit the preconceived story of how the world works.

Texas was placed 2nd by the ranking, and two other southern states, North Carolina and Georgia, were ranked 3rd and 4th respectively. I'm not claiming the CNBC rankings are definitive, but I'd settle for an admission that perhaps your simplistic analysis of "the south is bad for business" might have more to do with your own ideology than having a hard basis in fact.

[Selene]

WHAT!

No psychological bullshit to crowd out the truth!

How dare you!

A...

[syrakusos]

Generalities and generalities and generalities all depend on specific facts. North Carolina enjoys Research Triangle Park, but if you and your spouse are of different so-called "races" then stay closer to town and venture not out into the capitalist utopia of ignorance. One of my professors who enjoyed UNC Chapel Hill warned me about Austin: The only problem with Austin is that it is surrounded by Texas.

Jane Jacobs touted cities as eponymous souls of our civilization. Atlanta, Richmond, Columbia, Charleston,...

Once you move the Google Maps slidebar down, however, you are in Deliverance Country.

[Southern Capitalist]

where do I begin.

Your observation of the South is incorrect. Let me start......

If you are a multi billion dollar corporation looking to build a plant in the United States you will look for the following according to large corporations who have opened plants recently. (Airbus, ThyssenKrupp, Chevron, etc etc)

Land tax

State Regulations

cost of living (because if cost of living is low then your payroll payout would be low).

Land prices (per acre)

State taxes

Transportation (road, or sea access is considered)

Again "cost of region" (Example: if fuel cost is low your profit will be higher, same with materials in area)

Under all of these considerations the South would be ideal for ALL of the above. Yet, its bad for business? This is incorrect from a business perspective.

So you mention facts... How can I prove this? The following companies stated these are the reasons they chose the South.

Within the last decade the following companies have made Alabama their home to some plants:

Austals

ThyssenKrupp

Hyundai

Mitsubishi

Airbus

Northrop Grumman

Outokumpo

Evoniks

DPS Midstream

Chevron

There is a lot more to add to this list. Also consider this is just one state!!

Under these considerations the South is a Gold mine for business.

Ok, next......

Crime: One thing not considered is the population. The South is a very VERY very low populated area. Compared to other states the crime rate is very low. Your talking millions of people in one city in some states to thousands in states around the country. Also let me add that the Southern states have the most lenient gun laws over other regions. Example: one month ago I walked into Academy and bought a Remington 30 06 and a Marlin 410, filled out tow pieces of paper and walked out. I bought a Smith and Wesson 45. To conceal it I only have to 45 bucks a year, With this permit I can conceal on wear it on my hip. Their is no so called "assault rifle" bans and all that mess.

The bad crime rates come from bad neighborhoods... pure and simple. However, the southern states does not have many "massive cities" therefore most is "country living". The crime rates come from the big cities it does have.

However my debate does not steam from this, this is just a side note. My debate comes from facts. That the Southern region is of low population and in a lot of polls or statistically this is not considered. If it was the numbers would change. Besides in most polls there's only a couple states on the list anyway.

Moving on:

Ignorance: rather insulting, I typically would reword as to not insult. of course this is called "southern hospitality" we also call that manners.

anyway... ignorance:

Do not confuse ignorance with pace of living. The typical southerner lives a slow paced simple life. This is the culture and I,myself, enjoy it. They work, come home and enjoy time with family and personal hobbies. They enjoy sitting on the porch chit chatting with friends drinking sweet tea or Budlight.

This does not mean their ignorant.

Let me add that this "ignorant" person can typically build a house with his bare hands, feed his family without going to the grocery store if he wanted and doesn't need an Engineering degree to build something. This usually comes from home raising, tradition, and culture. I will quote Hank Williams Jr. "theres not to much these ol boys cant do, a country boy can survive". Yes, this may be a song by a singer but, theres a lot of truth to it. The hobbies of the stereotyped "redkneck hick" is fixing just about anything, hunt his food, fish, build some wild and amazing things, grow his own crops, make is own wine, and cook some amazing food from scratch. etc etc. I myself don't need a mechanic to fix my truck or change my oil. I personally do all the things described above and as an Engineer once told me, "If you can distill moonshine, then you can create gasoline just on a larger scale, and these people seem to be born with this knowledge".

Hardly the ignorance you can speak of and keep in mind these survival skills are hobbies in the South. If the government ceased to exist tomorrow the last people on Earth to worry would be this region. Ill vouch for that. Also a BA or Master degree doesn't make you "non-ignorant". lack of common sense does.

My writings above proves the region is Hardly the ignorant people you speak of. In reality their very smart, have high levels of common sense, BUT live slow paced lives.

Furthermore YES! its true the south has the lowest educational standards of the country but under what observation? under public school system statistics. Even has the lowest the graduation percentage is in the 80 percentile. Not to bad, this is a government problem anyway. Our entire nations education criteria is low compared to other nations.

I could write more but ive made my point....

Again.....Let me add again,

Fact is.....

Unemployment:

Alabama: 6.9% 2 years ago before lord Obama cut out a lot of the drilling it was 3.3%,

Florida: 7.2

Georgia: 8.2

Texas: 6.4

Louisiana: 6.5

Before regulations on drilling and the so called recession hit the south had the best percentages of unemployment. During and afterwards the south STILL had some of the best percentages.

Tax Rate:

Tenn is the 3rd lowest state tax in the nation

Alabama is 5th in the nation

Texas is 8th

S. Carolina is 2nd

Need I say more?

Summary: Capitalism, self reliance, individualism, private property. Equals the South.

It amazes me your lack of understanding of the Southern culture for a gentlemen who lives in Austin Texas. By the way, from what I gather and those i have worked with which is numorous. I have learned most Austin citizens are very VERY proud to be Texans. I will add Texas is a great state.

Far as the "race and black people" comments.. ill pass.

Enjoy

Emanuel

[Southern Capitalist]

Also one last thought. Im not saying its the best or greatest place to live. As with anything its for some, but not for all. Some would love the culture, others would hate it. Up to the individual.

Another thought: A house you could by say in the west or north, for what you pay there you could buy 2 of the same house in the south. Plus acreage.

Low cost of living does not necessarily mean "Low standard of living".

[syrakusos]

A card-carrying criminologist will tell you, "Crime knows no neighborhood." In other words, rich people in the country harm each other just as do poor people in the city, or poor people in the country, or rich people in the city. Rich men in the country do not use guns to rob convenience stores. They get the legislature to do that for them while they molest their nieces and step-sons and beat their wives. Conversely, prostitution is just as common among wealthy women as poor, only that the transactions appear different, when they appear at all. It is a sad fact that the so-called "low crime rate" in rural areas is only the result of under-reporting. They sweep it under the rug and keep it out of the papers. In the South, it is called gentility.

Among the very many fallacies of collectivism is the claim that civilization came from agriculture. In fact, as Jane Jacobs pointed out in The Economy of Cities, urban areas make rural living possible. Tractors are not produced on farms. Jacobs theorized that where we found pastoralists pursuing herds, we saw not the rudiments of proto-agriculture, but the remnants of failed cities, with the peripheral farmers reduced to wandering after flocks for the lack of a marketplace in which to sell their surplus and buy finished goods.

[Southern Capitalist]

Your latest post went off topic. Far as the current topic "see my post above"

However since you moved on to this...I also would like to counter......

This concerns me, I would tell Criminologist what I tell Politicians. Get away from the pen and pick up a hammer. A politician knows nothing or has forgotten what its like being a working gentleman. Example: The president, Has never worked in the private sector nor served in the military yet, he can try to pass laws that concern both. Most politicians know nothing of the "workingman" environment. Yet they supposed to represent "us".

Now, on to Criminologist... If you or other "card carrying criminologist" actually believe this I would say similar to the above. Get out from the desk and nose out of the book. Street knowledge in criminology would be better than what you will ever learn in a college setting. Take a trip to the projects.

For this discussion I will use my home city as an example:

In Mobile Al, there is a area known as Happy Hills. It is a place the city calls "The Projects" society calls it "The Ghetto". This is a place in the city that cops don't go. There's one way in, one way out and down a hill into a valley. Its a nightmare for cops. They go there they get sniped! So the only city workers allowed there is EMT, Firefighters, and utility workers. Everyone knows about it, it is not a secret, all who live here knows "you don't go there" Happy Hills and similar places account for most of the cities unsolved crime and homicides for obveise reasons.

Lets move across town.

West Mobile is a wonderful place with good people that makes a decent living. Nice homes, nice everything. Is there still crime? sure... But nothing compared to "the projects" or downtown. So the term "Crime knows no neighborhood" is only true in one sense. Because crime can happen in all neighborhoods, BUT, crime can be greater in different neighborhoods. This is a fact. Also this can not be learned in a book but on the streets. When I was young my since mother was broke. We lived in the ghetto. I lived this way much of my life until she built herself up after a divorce and I myself did as well.

Moving on...

Yes rich men in the country may molest their nieces, but for ever niece molested a gang banger shoots 10 rivals. Again, this is fact.

Next..

Prostitution among wealthy women is not prostitution because in reality what happens is she wants a real man. haha couldn't help myself.. "the electrician" the dirty construction worker that knows how to use his hands. She wants the "tough dude" that fries his chicken when she may have a pen pusher with Master degrees that eats sushi. (I like some sushi, just a thought)

There's low crime statistics in rural areas because there's low crime. Something I think criminologist apparently do not think of is "more people, more crime" Also it depends on your neighborhood and part of town, which I have proved.

"Tractors are not produced on farms" huh

Farmers don't need tractors to produce a product either..... and it doesn't matter where the marketplace is as they will travel to the nearest one. I don't see how cities make rural living possible when rural areas doesn't even need the cities to live. As I've stated in previse posts I myself could survive without a city, economy, or government. Many individuals could. So Rural folks can easily survive. They may not want to.... or its very easy to "drive to town" but this certain theory by Jane Jacobs is incorrect.

With no dis respect to you, I just disagree with these theories and statements.

[ginny]

"Crime knows no neighborhood"

Are you saying that every neighborhood has some crimes and that the amount of crime varies according to neighborhood?

[Southern Capitalist]

I took it as, crime can happen anywhere. or, crime will happen.

[ginny]

Yeah, SC, that's me too. The quote was from Michael M however.

[moralist]

I don't see how cities make rural living possible when rural areas doesn't even need the cities to live. As I've stated in previse posts I myself could survive without a city, economy, or government. Many individuals could. So Rural folks can easily survive.

While reading this thread, your point jumped right off of the page. This is a critical question everyone should ask themselves:

If there ever was to be a societal upheaval where would you rather be... inside of a city, or out in the country?

Most everyone believes that they live in a good place, and what that means is not as much that it is good for everyone, but that it is good for them. There is also certain amount of destiny in where people live their lives, because there can be life altering consequences spun into motion by even the smallest of actions.