What is Consciousness?

PDS · November 28, 2015

Okay, PBS. Stop traducing producing. Do some producing.
--Brant
Brant: I am thinking (pun intended) that this is directed at me (PDS--not PBS).
I will start with an analogy. In advanced martial arts, there is a concept called mushin. This is roughly translated as "no mind". The marial artist has reached a stage where conscious thought is not need to execute moves, kicks, etc. Instead of thinking about them, you just do them, with relative ease. There is a companion concept called zanshin. This is roughly translated as "alert awareness". Zanshin is the is the other side of the coin, so to speak. Assuming a baseline of physical competance, when you stop thinking you are left with alert awareness. Consciousness is thus whatever is "left over" when one stops thinking (no mind) and notices the remaining alert awareness. That's the noun: alert awareness.
A question that has occupied the great mystics of virtually every religion for the past 2500 years is this: is this alert awareness personal to you or to me, i.e., is it a soul-like thing existing inside your head, behind the back of your eyeballs somewhere), or does it exist generally as that one energy that makes up all of existence, i.e., the energy spoken of by quantum physicists? The mystics say that consciousness is that "one energy" that makes up all of existence. One example of this view is Advaita Vedenta.
So, the mystics go one step farther than merely calling consiousness "alert awareness". They call it existence itself.
Important, if true--as the saying goes.
I've no idea why it's important. I am aware of a state of consciousness where things just flow and your body does things seemingly without error. I think this happens a lot with great athletes. Once someone tossed a pool ball to me with some speed but off to the side. I just snap-put out my hand and grabbed it perfectly.
One reason I stopped karate was I couldn't train myself to stop using my hands to stop kicks. My knuckles got swollen up.
I was having a little fun with PBS Mr. PDS. Be happy I didn't think of PMS. My brain is still sharp enough to chop down trees. Shaving is another matter.
--Brant

Brant: Don't sell yourself short. Of course you know why that would be important--or, at least, you certainly have an idea why this would be important.

Just one example of why this might be important: if true, it would confirm Jung's theory of a collective unconscious.

Another example of why this might be important: It would, if true, confirm the Stoic pantheist metphysics, which essentially holds that everything is that one energy (sometimes referred to as God).

One final example of why this might be important: it would, if true--and apart from the Stoics--confirm that you and I are god, in the same way that every wave is a part of the ocean.

Take your pick. Seems pretty important to me--if true...

Wolf DeVoon · November 28, 2015

You and I are god, in the same way that every wave is a part of the ocean.

All mystics straight to the ignore list.

anthony · November 28, 2015

I'd think a false alternative, PDS.

The over-riding pick is one of two alternatives of a theory of consciousness:

1. Connected to everything

2. Connected to nothing.

Wolf DeVoon · November 28, 2015

1. Connected to everything
2. Connected to nothing.

3. General anesthesia: disconnected from everything.

4. High on LSD: hot-wired to hallucinations.

5. Drunk: loosely connected to body.

6. Spectator: cognitive hostage.

anthony · November 28, 2015

Heh. But what about the other half of your time?

anthony · November 29, 2015

...couldn't resist that Wolf..

Whatever consciousness is, what it's not is immortal - or 'connected'.

A dog obsessively chasing its tail is a good metaphor for attempting to go behind the consciousness axiom.

Q. Why does he do that?

A. Because he has never learned he can't catch it.

(Relax - take it easy, my boy).

Once the 'limits' of one's consciousness are realized, true liberation can begin. What now? What can I know? What can I do? Who with? Which are my values?

On the surface a paradox, but those parameters are what shall set one free.

Wolf DeVoon · November 29, 2015

Tony, I like our chats. What you think of dreams? Not consciousness, but offline file sorting?

Selene · November 29, 2015

You and I are god, in the same way that every wave is a part of the ocean.
All mystics straight to the ignore list.

Despite your un-unique Ostrich philosophy on this point, what if what is "mystical" is real?

A...

Brant Gaede · November 29, 2015

Then the mystics will have to come up with a mystical replacement.

--Brant

it's an industry

Wolf DeVoon · November 29, 2015

what if what is "mystical" is real?

Claiming so was a nice franchise for Lucas. Ka-ching!

PDS · November 30, 2015

Then the mystics will have to come up with a mystical replacement.
--Brant
it's an industry

Brant: I love your ability to turn a phrase in less-than-dozen word increments. You should take up Haiku--I bet you could sell a book of it.

With that said, consider this: just because the mystics have been saying X for 2500 years does not mean that X is false. In other words, it is entirely possible that the mystics have been more or less accidentally correct, as, for instance, they have been in the field quantum physics.

Once again, important--if true.

PDS · November 30, 2015

You and I are god, in the same way that every wave is a part of the ocean.
All mystics straight to the ignore list.

Aw, come on Wolf.

You've already ruined two countries and now you're threatening to go and ruin this thread!

Too bad you'll never see this complaint...

Brant Gaede · November 30, 2015

Then the mystics will have to come up with a mystical replacement.
--Brant
it's an industry
Brant: I love your ability to turn a phrase in less-than-dozen word increments. You should take up Haiku--I bet you could sell a book of it.
With that said, consider this: just because the mystics have been saying X for 2500 years does not mean that X is false. In other words, it is entirely possible that the mystics have been more or less accidentally correct, as, for instance, they have been in the field quantum physics.
Once again, important--if true.

If they've been saying X for 2500 years you have to assume there's some utility, likely important.

Real knowledge of the existential world requires adduceable evidence.

--Brant

anthony · November 30, 2015

Tony, I like our chats. What you think of dreams? Not consciousness, but offline file sorting?

Plainly it is not the portents and signs of dreams you are asking for, any of that mystical junk.

Roughly, I think of dreams as random bubbles of memory rising from our subconscious and bursting on the surface. Interesting and fun to review or recall, even mirroring some aspects of our existence sometimes, but in themselves meaningless.

Research indicates various theories of the 'purpose' of dreaming - such as survival role play in the evolution of mammals - and the likely great importance of REM sleep (during which we dream) to our emotional wellbeing and mental health.