Dodger

That's a damn low blow. So would you like me to leave you in your bitterness?

That is a completely illogical standpoint for you to take on this subject. Perspective's differ, and using your different values as reason for illogical hatred, you have made a mistake. More later when I have time.

Congratulations. I didn't say my way was the only way to see it. Just explained my thought process. It wasn't an illogical assumption given the information, nor was yours. Assumptions may be logical at points but they are always potentially hazardous Take for instance, the digression that is has caused.

Hehehe. That was probably one of the wisest, smartest, and most insightful few sentences I've ever seen. You are 100% correct--You will find what you look for. Seems as if I have gone against some of my own principles.. I'll explain later.

Well Jeff, have you decided to read the rest of the topic yet? You didn't respond to any of my posts other than the original.

Why would make assumptions such as that? It is never a wise decision to assume something about someone else, no matter how small of an assumption it may be. You should ask next time Anyways, I have seen the 'new version.' It wouldn't have been so horrible if they kept the original setting in place. I dont think it was produced to be taken seriously. Atlas Shrugged, however, is something that needs to be taken seriously and needs time to be created. I've often daydreamed about how the movie would look.

Phil; This is a logical fallacy: I'm sure you understand why.

Sigh. Why do I feel that you people are resorting to juvenile tactics? There is a thing called cooperation, and open mindedness.

Just thought I'd point out that what is 'crap' is merely a perceptual issue--it is relative to the person who defines it.

Good points, and yes, I was only attacking those fundamentalist types. I made it clear in my other posts.

Where is Victor when you need him

Jesus. Someone lock the topic if nothing valuable is going to come from it.

My final words in this topic: The original topic was of 'Passing The Torch,' spreading Objectivism, etc. The BEST way to do this is to not waste your time in arguements and intellectual battles. Sometimes the best choice is to simply not care one way or the other. Please, stop wasting our god damn time with the silly bickering.

You can be sure that I am keeping in touch with Victor outside of this forum.

Victor; You have one of the most valuable points ever presented in a topic; the addictiveness of the cyber world. Oh I feel a topic coming on soon

I may be out of place, but would it not be wise to consult Victor on your issues with him privately, instead of derailing his post?

Phil; There is absolutely no need for you to criticize how a topic flows. I believe as long as it is productive, valuable discussions that occur (even if they are digressions) then they can be left alone. Is it a crime to discuss, to have new thoughts triggered by a different topic? Seems you just did what you wanted not to happen--derailed a post and steered it even further away from the original topic. At least the discussions happening before hand were relevant to the topic in some way.

I haven't been following this 'Orthodox Objectivist' arguement much. Victor, what do you think is the largest difference between the two views?

Victor; Very interesting post. Can you explain/elaborate on your caricature? It isn't as obvious (at least, not to me) as most are. Forgive me for not seeing it yet.

I dont even watch American Idol, so sadly, I cant really participate in this discussion. I can laugh though

Robert; Very valid point, and I think the way to best solve this problem would be to have a community (not a forum, though it is effective) type of setting in which newcomers to objectivism can learn from other's wisdom. Eh I need to sand the edges on this idea, but you see where I'm going with this I hope.

Ive written much more. It is a hobby of mine to write poems and songs. Can you do me a favor? Which stanza particularly jumps out at you, and why?

I agree with Michael here. It really felt that Dagny and Hank were trying their hardest to be together.

Victor; I'll go pick up that book tonight. Robert; Thank you for being willing to cooperate. I understand the reasons behind your initial assumptions, whether or not I believe they were wrongly placed. And, to be honest, I am not very familiar with the darker side of objectivism. However, I can assure you that my goals are not to try and destroy anyone's beliefs--My grandmother whom I live with is Christian and I do not judge her at all. The beliefs I have are different for different people. Ill explain. For the majority of church going Christians, it is easy for them to be deceived. I remember about a month ago my youth pastor was preaching on a topic that most churches and denominations deem completely wrong and taken out of context--and that is predestination. Now, I dont have a problem with people who believe it out of their own decision, but what I DO have a problem with is people entrusting their minds to a MAN. Almost every kid in that youth group nodded their heads and said 'Yup, that makes sense' solely because our youth pastor said so. It made me sick. I, to put it in better terms, do NOT feel all Christians are sheep or worthless human beings. However, those that forfeit the control of their beliefs to someone else, who do not even ask themselves if they agree, are sheep and should not even be spoken to. They have no right to even attempt to convert me. Now, for those Christians who have PERSONAL REASONS and have MADE THE CHOICE CONSCIOUSLY--More power to them and far be it for me to even attempt to discredit their beliefs and character. I know many people that are smarter than I am who put their faith in God for personal reasons and experiences. Now, most of the time I disagree with their use of some experiences as proof for God's existence, but it is not my place to try and debunk someone's beliefs when they have made the choice consciously. Very good point, and it makes perfect sense. I apologize for the way I have come off to you, but I hope that my explanation of my views has helped shed some light on why I feel as I do, and why I react so harshly to some Christians--It is how I react to anyone who forfeits their mind and ability to make conscious decisions. And as for the truce, hell, after that eye opening post of yours, Im ready to give you a brotherly hug

Kori; You have the right to say what you just did, and the manner in which you have spoken has gotten me to reconsider and at least think about the consequences of the post I have made. However, Robert took the easy way out. I appreciate you being able to be sincere and cooperative. I will reconsider what I said. I have a lot to explain for this. But I will save it for later; it will take too long to type. I most certainly did NOT respond to her in the fashion of my post. However, I was not nice. I was honest, and I was blunt. I did not attack her beliefs but I told her what I thought, and what I believed. I told her that it was not up to me to try and influence her beliefs in any way, shape, or form, but that I did want to make my stance clear. Thank you, and I apologize for the manner of this post. It was made out of an extreme amount of anger, and for the whole story you will have to wait a little while, because it will take some time to type. EDIT: Would you also say that it is anyone else's right to draw conclusions and assume things about me from the post?