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3 hours ago, tmj said:

But yeah why even look into it...

T,

Exactly.

Why look at anything unless our masters approve our looking first?

These idiots (our master) want obedience as priority. Then maybe solutions to problems. What's more, they believe only they can provide solutions. But someone like Mike Lindell? Hell, he's subhuman to them. He has no right to even mention the word science. He doesn't have a brain. They do.

People who think like that really turn me off.

Michael

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Verified is a funny word , nowadays, perhaps always, but definitely nowadays.

The single greatest advance in medicine was the germ theory of disease. It's precursor was smallpox vaccination. There is no handling flu with vaccine, just the pretense, but the pretense is a ho

The pandemics in 1957 and then again in 1968 killed roughly 100k Americans each, they were influenza viruses , I don't know of any societal wide reactions that match this one. Did we flatten a curve ?

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23 hours ago, william.scherk said:
On 8/19/2020 at 1:57 AM, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

I don't know about the technical side of the things involved here

The chemical touted by Anderson's guest is Oleandrin. Its efficacy as treatment or prophylaxis for COVID-19 is not (yet) evident. The plant from which it is derived is toxic ...

The tout had no detailed information to offer, and this is probably what led to the shouty stupidities in the segment.

Why was the tout so unprepared for basic questions?  If there is some materially-important "clinical" studying going on -- the tout was unable to provide detail.

6 hours ago, merjet said:
7 hours ago, tmj said:

That Forbes oped didn't mention the Phase I and Phase II safety trials of oleandrin, I think that was the study Lindell was speaking to.

If these alleged studies didn't provide evidence that oleandrin cures or prevents or inhibits Covid-19, so what?

"Show us the work" seems beyond the abilities of all concerned in touting the botanical extract. It's no secret that the plant is toxic, but why is the supposed research -- from the freaking side touting the nostrum -- secret?

Shady, shady, shady.

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10 minutes ago, william.scherk said:

Shady, shady, shady.

I think a lot of "secret  and "super beets" formulas will be put forward before it is announced that a true, proven vaccine is available.    

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1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

"Show us the work" seems beyond the abilities of all concerned in touting the botanical extract. It's no secret that the plant is toxic, but why is the supposed research -- from the freaking side touting the nostrum -- secret?

William,

Maybe because Ben Carson and the FDA are looking at it before you can?

Why not get in touch with them and tell them you are miffed about that and worried about this being shady, shady, shady?

:) 

Michael

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Come on, guys.

You can do better at yukking it up.

Jimmy Dore knows how.

I like Jimmy Dore, but when he goes off on Christians, I start getting uncomfortable, not by the jokes, but by the intensity of his glee.

He was like this with Herman Cain, even after Herman passed away.

Michael

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3 hours ago, william.scherk said:

"Show us the work"...

This reminded me of a phrase from Kamala Harris's VP nomination acceptance speech last night: "do the work."

These two meanings and contexts are completely different, but then I saw a comment by Scott Adams. It not only cracked me up, it made me wonder if there is some under-the-surface emotional cross-pollination between the two when lefties use them.

Scott Adams video: here--50:01.

He called "do the work" an identity politics term. Then he said:

Quote

Doing the work means brainwashing yourself into a new point of view.

:) 

Yup...

And how about showing the work or not showing the work within the context of Anderson Cooper throwing a temper tantrum on TV?

Yup...

There's an element of that in there, too.

Same brainwashing root, different branch.

:) 

Michael

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16 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Maybe because Ben Carson and the FDA are looking at it before you can?

😃  You would trust the "global elitists" at the FDA whom you denigrate so much? 😃

Per the Forbes article the U.S. Army already tested the extract. Multiple iterations showed no benefit from it. The Army halted any further testing to focus on more promising things. 

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On 8/20/2020 at 7:30 AM, tmj said:

exactly when do cures or treatments become less dubious or unproven on a novel virus ? and how does that happen ?

tmj: "But yeah why even look into it, it's not a non dubious or proven treatment for the novel virus, snakeoil, it's all just to gin up a customer base for supplements. Only proven cures should be used" (link).

If you are so enamored with “unproven cures” for Covid-19, I have an “unproven” drug for you. Imagine there is a marijuana distributor, who sells his high-priced special blend and promotes it for preventing Covid-19. He says: “Thousands of my customers have smoked one or more joints of my special blend daily for months. Not one of them has been diagnosed with Covid-19 or tested positive for coronavirus. It’s a gift of nature, or God if you prefer. It’s very, very safe, too. Lab-tested safe. Try it. You’ll love it.”

He even pays customers, or gives discounts, for testimonies that he includes as part of his advertising. One is by an MD, unpaid. This marijuana distributor has as much credibility as Lindell touting oleandrin.

Indeed, this marijuana distributor is more credible than Lindell. He is not claiming his special blend will cure Covid-19, whereas Lindell did.

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The anti malaria med has been approved since the mid 1960s and is not toxic in low prescribed doses. The dose makes the poison. Concentrated mercury might be the most potent poison and water the least.

A vaccine for a virus? Talk about silly. This crisis ends with the election. It will be followed by the post election crisis. Covid 19 is 95 percent political.

--Brant

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3 hours ago, merjet said:

tmj: "But yeah why even look into it, it's not a non dubious or proven treatment for the novel virus, snakeoil, it's all just to gin up a customer base for supplements. Only proven cures should be used" (link).

If you are so enamored with “unproven cures” for Covid-19, I have an “unproven” drug for you. Imagine there is a marijuana distributor, who sells his high-priced special blend and promotes it for preventing Covid-19. He says: “Thousands of my customers have smoked one or more joints of my special blend daily for months. Not one of them has been diagnosed with Covid-19 or tested positive for coronavirus. It’s a gift of nature, or God if you prefer. It’s very, very safe, too. Lab-tested safe. Try it. You’ll love it.”

He even pays customers, or gives discounts, for testimonies that he includes as part of his advertising. One is by an MD, unpaid. This marijuana distributor has as much credibility as Lindell touting oleandrin.

Thus unproven cures can't be proved.

--Brant

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47 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

A vaccine for a virus? Talk about silly.

There are vaccines for flu viruses. Their effectiveness varies by year from about 10% to 70%, on average 40% to 60% (link).

Until very recently there was no vaccine for any coronavirus. Russia very recently claimed to have one. Many others are and have been working hard to find one. 
 

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5 hours ago, merjet said:

Per the Forbes article the U.S. Army already tested the extract.

I keep seeing Forbes article, muh Forbes article.

So I went and read it. The article is pure garbage.

The reason is right at the top, too. And I don't mean the title of the article.

It was written by:

Quote

Andrew Solender
Forbes Staff
Business
I cover politics and the 2020 election

An article written by a political writer... Hmmmm...

So I looked at the other articles written by Solender.

What did I find? He's a political hack and a person with Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Why am I not surprised?

In his "muh Forbes article", he also bashed hydroxychloroquine, mainly because President Trump took it.

I suppose there are a few correct things in the article, but the framing is so thickly agenda-driven, it is only of value to people who have a political agenda as their priority.

Michael

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6 hours ago, merjet said:

You would trust the "global elitists" at the FDA whom you denigrate so much? 

Merlin,

I don't trust global elitists.

But do I trust specialists to get things right under the watchful eye of Dr. Ben Carson?

I sure as hell do.

He was one of the world's top brain surgeons before he ever thought about politics.

You, on the other hand, trust a political hack from Forbes--a political hack and proud of it--sight unseen for your information.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Michael

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2 hours ago, merjet said:

There are vaccines for flu viruses. Their effectiveness varies by year from about 10% to 70%, on average 40% to 60% (link).

Until very recently there was no vaccine for any coronavirus. Russia very recently claimed to have one. Many others are and have been working hard to find one. 
 

While I meant the particular virus under discussion, I think your data are likely correct. If they are correct, however, they aren't very impressive.

Vaccines against smallpox, rabies and polio are the gold standard. Those are not caused by viruses.

A similar pattern is obtained with disease treatment. There are antibiotics for bacteria but not similar effective treatments for virus infections.

My step-mother's life was saved in the late 1940s by "the miracle of penicillin." She had double lobar pneumonia. Doctors came to her hospital room to marvel at it. 

--Brant

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18 minutes ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

You are being way too generous to the bad guys.

“This wicked man . . . . This monstrous product of former wrongs and shame has now resolved to break our famous island race by a process of indiscriminate slaughter and destruction.” Winston Churchill

Never surrender to the totalitarians.

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Fox was saying there may be a limited supply of some vaccine in October for testing, and then more extensive shots in the arm by November and December.  Hang in there, and stay safe.

We are still watching Travelers and The Rain which is in its last season.

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On 8/20/2020 at 2:14 PM, william.scherk said:

"Show us the work" seems beyond the abilities of all concerned in touting the botanical extract. It's no secret that the plant is toxic, but why is the supposed research -- from the freaking side touting the nostrum -- secret?

Shady, shady, shady.

 

Oh, so 'show us the work' is important now? Cool.

Oh, wait, but it's only important regarding this single issue, and not, say, anthropogenic climate change, right? Got it.

J

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8 minutes ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

Oh?

Ellen

Oops. 100 percent. Wrong.

--Brant

I once read about the first survivor of rabies. I think it was a boy. His doctor checked on him before leaving the hospital and noted he needed immediate supportive care. That saved his life.

When I was getting my Special Forces medical training in the summer of 1965 we were shown a film strip of a little boy with rabies symptoms confined to a crib. It was heartbreaking.

--Brant

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23 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

Merlin,

I don't trust global elitists.

But do I trust specialists to get things right under the watchful eye of Dr. Ben Carson?

I sure as hell do.

He was one of the world's top brain surgeons before he ever thought about politics.

😀 There are plenty of “global elitists” at the FDA.

😀 Dr. Ben Carson is Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. If he’s doing his job, he has no time for being a watchful eye over infectious disease specialists. He has no authority over the FDA. Having been a brain surgeon does not make him an expert on infectious diseases.

Ben Carson says it's premature to promote latest unproven coronavirus treatment
 

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20 hours ago, Michael Stuart Kelly said:

I keep seeing Forbes article, muh Forbes article.

So I went and read it. The article is pure garbage.

The reason is right at the top, too. And I don't mean the title of the article.

It was written by:

An article written by a political writer... Hmmmm...

So I looked at the other articles written by Solender.

What did I find? He's a political hack and a person with Trump Derangement Syndrome.

😀 Hogwash and pure ad hominem. The Forbes author bashed hydroxychloroquine in other articles mainly because he trusted the words of some medical experts more than those of Trump, who has no medical expertise. The fact that Trump took HCQ proves nothing except that it didn’t make him sick. Ditto for Lindell and oleandrin.

Your calling the Forbes article about the oleandrin extract “pure garbage” is unjustified. How does your trashing the author – because he doesn’t worship Trump like you do -- justify your slur that the article is “pure garbage”? Your slur insinuates that all the specialists at the U.S. Army Institute of Infectious Diseases are incompetent and untrustworthy. Instead we should trust Trump, who apparently believes he has great scientific talent because his uncle was a professor of electrical engineering at MIT?? Instead should we trust Lindell, who made pillows and was addicted to cocaine, crack, and alcohol during the 1980s and 1990s, and is now a religious nut?? 😀

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