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Defamation on Solo


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#21 Ellen Stuttle

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 03:25 AM

OK Ellen, it's a deal. Start practicing your Greek Maidens dance for the Nice Party (hey, it's a cyberbash so we can be maidens if we want... matrons just sounds so...matronly


Remind me to tell you someday about the time I was the vestal virgin giving an opening incantation for the Roman Banquet which transpired my sophomore or junior year of high school. The men's gym was the scene. The banquet was a great success.

Btw, vestal "virgins" weren't "virgins" in our current meaning.

Ellen

#22 Xray

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

After April 15th....(IRS day)...
Ellen

OK Ellen, it's a deal. Start practicing your Greek Maidens dance for the Nice Party (hey, it's a cyberbash so we can be maidens if we want... matrons just sounds so...matronly

None of us are matron-like types anyway, I think. :smile:

Re Eliot and Middlemarch, it occurs to me that our lately lamented seymour was a sort of Casaubon in her project to systematize all knowledge into the pomo grid. Life imitates art as ever.

'Pomo grid' - very apt term! In a way, I feel sorry for Janet, as she seems downright unable to take off her pomo glasses.

As for Casaubon, I really loathed this character! The aversion I've always had against pedantic men was rekindled each time he showed up in the story. Having to witness, as a reader, the wonderful Dorothea Brooke getting stifled in this marriage was hard to bear. But it just shows once more what a genius as a writer Mary Ann Evans was, being to convey all this so convincingly.

#23 daunce lynam

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:35 PM


After April 15th....(IRS day)...
Ellen

OK Ellen, it's a deal. Start practicing your Greek Maidens dance for the Nice Party (hey, it's a cyberbash so we can be maidens if we want... matrons just sounds so...matronly

None of us are matron-like types anyway, I think. :smile:

Re Eliot and Middlemarch, it occurs to me that our lately lamented seymour was a sort of Casaubon in her project to systematize all knowledge into the pomo grid. Life imitates art as ever.

'Pomo grid' - very apt term! In a way, I feel sorry for Janet, as she seems downright unable to take off her pomo glasses.

As for Casaubon, I really loathed this character! The aversion I've always had against pedantic men was rekindled each time he showed up in the story. Having to witness, as a reader, the wonderful Dorothea Brooke getting stifled in this marriage was hard to bear. But it just shows once more what a genius as a writer Mary Ann Evans was, being to convey all this so convincingly.



After April 15th....(IRS day)...
Ellen

OK Ellen, it's a deal. Start practicing your Greek Maidens dance for the Nice Party (hey, it's a cyberbash so we can be maidens if we want... matrons just sounds so...matronly

None of us are matron-like types anyway, I think. :smile:

Re Eliot and Middlemarch, it occurs to me that our lately lamented seymour was a sort of Casaubon in her project to systematize all knowledge into the pomo grid. Life imitates art as ever.

'Pomo grid' - very apt term! In a way, I feel sorry for Janet, as she seems downright unable to take off her pomo glasses.

As for Casaubon, I really loathed this character! The aversion I've always had against pedantic men was rekindled each time he showed up in the story. Having to witness, as a reader, the wonderful Dorothea Brooke getting stifled in this marriage was hard to bear. But it just shows once more what a genius as a writer Mary Ann Evans was, being to convey all this so convincingly.

Oh, wasn.t he loathsome! I just cringed as the lovely ardent Dorothea mistook his chilly academic arrogance for knowledge, and enlisted herself in that lightless servitude. I agree it was excruciating to see her nearly extinguished, I was so glad to escape into the self-made troubles of poor Dr Lydgate and his lethal bride.

#24 daunce lynam

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:34 PM

I tag this onto an old thread because I could not find the title I remembered. New Low at Solo, which is inadequate anyway.

Today Dog has defamed not just Solo with its lowest point, but the Objectivist world in general imo, withhis fascist ravings.

J. Maurone made an appropriate response. We'll see who goes first over there, him or Dog.

#25 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:34 PM

Carol,

 

Fred Luntz (a polling and covert wordsmith guru who frequently appears on Fox) recently made a very interesting observation. He said if the conservatives want to distance themselves from the repercussions of the class warfare discourse of the progressives, they have to stop using the word "class" when they frame their collectives. For instance, if they want to address the middle income demographic, they should not say "middle class," but instead, "hard working Americans." Granted, this is not as precise, but it  implicitly flatters the people with a designation that has good moral conduct embedded into it, and it steps outside the class struggle frame.

 

I find the language this young man uses is loaded with the kind of covert subconscious stickiness Luntz pointed to. It's one collective after another in his discourse--all with strongly worded emotional anchors. This dude is a pure social metaphysician in the original sense of that term, even though it is a very limited concept. He is a collectivist to the core of his soul. And he constantly calls on "Objectivists" as if this were a class of people like a tribe. There are no individuals in his world on a primary level. (I base this on what little I have read from him.) There are Objectivists, blacks, Muslims, Hispanics, filth, betrayers, and so on. His outbursts show clearly that he wants compliance from all his imaginary tribe members. He comes off as having the soul of a bully.

 

Oddly enough, I don't find his racism as offensive as his wallowing in negative emotions. Lots of people are going to bash his racist rants, but not many over in those murky waters will object to his focus on spite as a constant subtext. 

 

Just as laughter is contagious, so is hatred. This is physical. It comes from the way mirror neurons work. And it is common knowledge that when you cultivate excessive emotional negativity, you literally kill yourself over time. Ulcers, cancer, strokes, heart attacks, the list goes on and on.

 

The problem is that, since hatred is contagious, you kill those who go along with you, too.

 

If someone were to characterize this dude as "toxic," they would not be using a metaphor. His behavior is literally and physically toxic to those who spend lots of time around him.

 

There's a matter of degree, too. Barbara Branden used to give us a constant reminder. if you use your harshest terms for the people you disagree with, what is left to designate the real bad guys like Hitler? You end up trivializing the extent of their evil by leveling it to people who are nowhere near the monsters they were.

 

This is one of the reasons you rarely see me use words anymore like "disgusting," "contemptible," "subhuman," "evil," "filth," and so on. I do use them, but when I do, they tend to have impact. The reason is I choose my targets based on relevance, and I don't dilute them with kindergarten antics or overuse.

 

I'm on a Brazilian saying kick, so here is another. It refers to the true extent of the effectiveness SLOP has in the Objectivist subcommunity (and elsewhere) due to the constant yelling and nasty emotional environment this dude helps cultivate. (And he's not the only one.)

 

When one donkey brays, the one beside it doesn't budge, but simply lowers its ear to tune out the noise.

 

Michael


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#26 daunce lynam

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:42 PM

Carol,
 
Fred Luntz (a polling and covert wordsmith guru who frequently appears on Fox) recently made a very interesting observation. He said if the conservatives want to distance themselves from the repercussions of the class warfare discourse of the progressives, they have to stop using the word "class" when they frame their collectives. For instance, if they want to address the middle income demographic, they should not say "middle class," but instead, "hard working Americans." Granted, this is not as precise, but it  implicitly flatters the people with a designation that has good moral conduct embedded into it, and it steps outside the class struggle frame.
 
I find the language this young man uses is loaded with the kind of covert subconscious stickiness Luntz pointed to. It's one collective after another in his discourse--all with strongly worded emotional anchors. This dude is a pure social metaphysician in the original sense of that term, even though it is a very limited concept. He is a collectivist to the core of his soul. And he constantly calls on "Objectivists" as if this were a class of people like a tribe. There are no individuals in his world on a primary level. (I base this on what little I have read from him.) There are Objectivists, blacks, Muslims, Hispanics, filth, betrayers, and so on. His outbursts show clearly that he wants compliance from all his imaginary tribe members. He comes off as having the soul of a bully.
 
Oddly enough, I don't find his racism as offensive as his wallowing in negative emotions. Lots of people are going to bash his racist rants, but not many over in those murky waters will object to his focus on spite as a constant subtext. 
 
Just as laughter is contagious, so is hatred. This is physical. It comes from the way mirror neurons work. And it is common knowledge that when you cultivate excessive emotional negativity, you literally kill yourself over time. Ulcers, cancer, strokes, heart attacks, the list goes on and on.
 
The problem is that, since hatred is contagious, you kill those who go along with you, too.
 
If someone were to characterize this dude as "toxic," they would not be using a metaphor. His behavior is literally and physically toxic to those who spend lots of time around him.
 
There's a matter of degree, too. Barbara Branden used to give us a constant reminder. if you use your harshest terms for the people you disagree with, what is left to designate the real bad guys like Hitler? You end up trivializing the extent of their evil by leveling it to people who are nowhere near the monsters they were.
 
This is one of the reasons you rarely see me use words anymore like "disgusting," "contemptible," "subhuman," "evil," "filth," and so on. I do use them, but when I do, they tend to have impact. The reason is I choose my targets based on relevance, and I don't dilute them with kindergarten antics or overuse.
 
I'm on a Brazilian saying kick, so here is another. It refers to the true extent of the effectiveness SLOP has in the Objectivist subcommunity (and elsewhere) due to the constant yelling and nasty emotional environment this dude helps cultivate. (And he's not the only one.)
 
When one donkey brays, the one beside him doesn't budge, but simply lowers its ear to tune out the noise.
 
Michael


Michael,

Your analysis strikes me as spot on. I come to my reactions to him from a different ccontext and part of the spectrum, of course... but my reactions were the same as yours. You say this young man is a collectivist, I say he experiences the world as "me" or "not-me", and he makes both of us sick. He is terrified of "not-me" and needs help with that. Lindsay Perigo is not giving him any help.

Has he not even read that Rand said racism was the worst form of collectivism?

#27 Ninth Doctor

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:16 PM

Today Dog has defamed not just Solo with its lowest point, but the Objectivist world in general imo, withhis fascist ravings.

You oughta provide a link in a case like this. Think of it this way, for me to go looking for it means at least 2 page views for the SLOP trough, if you give the link they only get one.

http://www.solopassion.com/node/9494

"Look at their faces. There is no humanity in those faces. This type of barbarism is COMMON for blacks and Hispanics. It is rare for whites."



"Savage black violence is real and I for one wish that some Objectivist with balls would take notice of it. But what we get are fucking cowards and quislings like that horse-faced Hsieh or that South African lemming Leonid."

He's got another new one on Islam:

http://www.solopassion.com/node/9493

"IMO, Islam should be banned and Muslims should be deported. When will the Objectivist movement wisen up to this reality?"

Time for Jabba to come over and cheer him up, methinks:


Prandium gratis non est

#28 daunce lynam

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:19 PM

Today Dog has defamed not just Solo with its lowest point, but the Objectivist world in general imo, withhis fascist ravings.

You oughta provide a link in a case like this. Think of it this way, for me to go looking for it means at least 2 page views for the SLOP trough, if you give the link they only get one.

http://www.solopassion.com/node/9494

"Look at their faces. There is no humanity in those faces. This type of barbarism is COMMON for blacks and Hispanics. It is rare for whites."



"Savage black violence is real and I for one wish that some Objectivist with balls would take notice of it. But what we get are fucking cowards and quislings like that horse-faced Hsieh or that South African lemming Leonid."

He's got another new one on Islam:

http://www.solopassion.com/node/9493

"IMO, Islam should be banned and Muslims should be deported. When will the Objectivist movement wisen up to this reality?"

Time for Jabba to come over and cheer him up, methinks:


 
 



9D, I apologize. But in this case, I just would not step foot in that site after looking, let alone invite anyone else to visit it.

#29 daunce lynam

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:52 PM

I tag this onto an old thread because I could not find the title I remembered. New Low at Solo, which is inadequate anyway.

Today Dog has defamed not just Solo with its lowest point, but the Objectivist world in general imo, withhis fascist ravings.

J. Maurone made an appropriate response. We'll see who goes first over there, him or Dog.


WOW, that was fast, my question is answered, Maurone has said he will be leaving there, and he mentioned "toxicity."

I do not know anything about him but he appears sensible,

#30 daunce lynam

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

However let us all bear in mind that Mithridates, he died old.

If you are very unlucky I can recite the entire poem, and would.

#31 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:30 PM

Carol,

 

Maurone's got a heart.

 

He did some stupid things for some stupid reasons and allowed himself to be swayed by some stupid people on a stupid mission, but he's got a heart.

 

Just to be clear, here is what I mean by stupid with a great deal of precision: Human stupidity.

 

Maurone's not in a good place right now, but I have hopes he will eventually get to a good one. I think he's starting to see that a mind without a heart equals a thug--at the very best. The heartless mind may not look like a thug in the beginning, but he or she or the crowd somehow always ends up there.

 

Michael


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#32 daunce lynam

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:06 PM

"Is it necessary to be emotionally outraged over every murder that is committed in the United States?"

Good question, Jason Quintana!

I got enraged about a US murder once, and argued it here on OL. I survived as did my opponents, to fight another day.

The answer on Solo seems to be, "Only if the murderer is black, and the victim white". The survivors of this will be, guess what colour.

Solo is no longer a forum or O-site, it is a hate blog in the orbit of Geller, maybe LP can lick up some of her scraps.

#33 daunce lynam

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:26 PM

And its Principal is Mad King Ludwig of Bavaria, except with far inferior musical taste

#34 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:17 PM

The answer on Solo seems to be, "Only if the murderer is black, and the victim white". The survivors of this will be, guess what colour.

 

Carol,

 

I don't think that's where they are at.

 

Sure, Perigo and his minions promote killing motivated by hatred all the time. And if you disagree, they call you an apologist for evil and play the victim game all bigots play. Which means, the hater will show you a victim, true or otherwise, then threaten to despise you and call you vulgar names if you do not become a hater of the collective he or she hates. It's as if the victim on one side blanks out any victim on the other.

 

It's a perception thing, not reality (i.e., the victims of hatred in reality are on all sides).

 

it's a mind game.

 

The idea of hating the individual who perpetrated an atrocity, but not hating the collective such an individual belongs to, does not enter the mentality of this kind of bigot--not on a fundamental level.

 

Oddly enough, this is the reason I don't think the SLOPPERS (not all, just the ones who adhere to this mentality) want to wipe out blacks just so whites can survive. Or Muslims, or any other group.

 

Believe it or not, it's more collectivist than that.

 

In their world, the individual literally does not exist on a fundamental identification level, nor as a fundamental value. It's not that the idea enters their awareness and gets rejected. it's more like unicorns to them. Yeah, they can imagine a unicorn--or an individual as an end in himself or herself--as make-believe, but they know--with 100% certainty--such a thing doesn't exist.

 

There is only class against class, or collective against collective. Philosophy is a rulebook for a tribe, nothing more, and the individual is merely a replaceable cog in that machine. So I don't believe the value is extermination (although it certainly can be a praised as an unintended result in that environment).

 

The value is more like tribal domination. Our tribe is better than your tribe. Take that, you bastards! We win!

 

The reason they don't want to kill all the blacks is because individual blacks mean nothing metaphysically to them. Their target is the black tribe--the only true human existent their pea-brains can grok. Break the back of the offensive tribe and let the survivors beg for mercy. But don't worry. You can forget about those. They're bugs. They're nothing. Ditto for Muslims. Ditto for the individuals in all the collectives they hate.

 

That's more the attitude I see.

 

And that's my disagreement. But you are correct that it is a hate site.

 

Michael


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#35 daunce lynam

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 01:24 PM

I take your very good point. Actually, I never thought Perigo was a racist. He is a hatist. I think he hates people who don't like Mario Lanza, more than loves Lanza, for example

He's like the inversion of the gospel song, "If you don't love your neighbour then you don't love God."

"If you don't hate the Brandens
If you don't hate the music
If you don't hate the Muslims
then you don't love Ayn."

#36 Kyle Jacob Biodrowski

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:39 PM

I think he's starting to see that a mind without a heart equals a thug--at the very best. The heartless mind may not look like a thug in the beginning, but he or she or the crowd somehow always ends up there.

 

Michael

 

How exactly does a mind without a heart equal a thug. What do you mean by thug?

 

 

 

The reason they don't want to kill all the blacks is because individual blacks mean nothing metaphysically to them. Their target is the black tribe--the only true human existent their pea-brains can grok. Break the back of the offensive tribe and let the survivors beg for mercy. But don't worry. You can forget about those. They're bugs. They're nothing. Ditto for Muslims. Ditto for the individuals in all the collectives they hate.

 

Who is "they"?


"I’ve been waiting for awhile to meet you. For the chance to shake your hand. To give you thanks for all the suffering you command." - STP

 

"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)


#37 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:32 PM

Kyle,

 

They? i said it clearly. SLOPPERS who adhere to a bigoted mentality. Please reread my post if you are in doubt.

 

As to the context (the thug part), this is an old story. A very ugly old story.

 

My suggestion is to learn it before judging things.

 

A bad habit in our subculture is to judge things intensely on superficial contact before knowing what they are--usually by following some opinion of Rand's or imagining what that opinion was. But not always. Sometimes it's just a bad habit or laziness.

 

I call this flawed epistemology--placing the normative before the cognitive by choice and because it's a butt-load easier. Pointing fingers and opining is fun, but learning stuff makes your brain hurt.

 

There's lots of material all over telling this sorry tale, so I am not going to rewrite it.

 

But, of course, you are free to do as you choose.

 

Michael


Know thyself...


#38 Kyle Jacob Biodrowski

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:19 PM

A bad habit in our subculture is to judge things intensely on superficial contact before knowing what they are--usually by following some opinion of Rand's or imagining what that opinion was. But not always. Sometimes it's just a bad habit or laziness.

 

You could have just said this instead of the section I quoted in my post 36. The quote in my post 36 can lead to a lot of incorrect inferences whereas the quote above this sentence is much clearer.

 

I can see now that you were speaking of prejudice; I didn't know what you meant in the other quote.

 

As to the "SLOPPERS who adhere to a bigoted mentality", well, I'll leave that dog to lay.


"I’ve been waiting for awhile to meet you. For the chance to shake your hand. To give you thanks for all the suffering you command." - STP

 

"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)


#39 Michael Stuart Kelly

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:27 PM

You could have just said this instead of...

 

Kyle,

 

I'm confused.

 

You asked a question. Two questions, in fact. I answered.

 

Now you want to tell me how to answer you when you ask questions?

 

Hmmmmm...

 

I tend to respond poorly when people tell me what to do in a bossy tone.

 

Whatever...

 

You're young, so I'll discount it to excess of zeal for now.

 

btw - I have thoughts on your puppy story (I didn't forget), but I am finishing up some reading first--stuff that is proving to be relevant to what I want to say.

 

I have a suggestion. Go easy on the inter-forum feuds, have a little patience, and good things will come. You seem to have talent and I don't believe you will gain anything by jumping into the nastiness. I only see a waste of precious time that never returns without any kind of payoff in exchange. But I don't know you. I may be wrong and you may actually like that crap. Time will tell. Like I said, you decide. It's your life, your values and your choice.

 

Michael


Know thyself...


#40 Kyle Jacob Biodrowski

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:19 PM

Bossiness?

 

I wasn't telling you how to answer. I recommended that you say this:

 

A bad habit in our subculture is to judge things intensely on superficial contact before knowing what they are--usually by following some opinion of Rand's or imagining what that opinion was. But not always. Sometimes it's just a bad habit or laziness.

 

 

Instead of this:

 

 

I think he's starting to see that a mind without a heart equals a thug--at the very best. The heartless mind may not look like a thug in the beginning, but he or she or the crowd somehow always ends up there.

 

 

In your post 31. Because the former is clearer.

 

Also, feuding? Where were the feuds. Are you counting our little misunderstanding as a feud?

 

Additionally, I thought you had forgotten about the parable. I'm about ready to release another story, but I am waiting for your comments.


"I’ve been waiting for awhile to meet you. For the chance to shake your hand. To give you thanks for all the suffering you command." - STP

 

"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)





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