my job

[pippi]

Pippi:

That is what I believe that Brant meant. I guess we will have to wait until he informs us. Roark's success was a standout rarity from the game players or the normal successful architects.

ok but werent all of rand's heroes basically the same? I cant think of one who was an 'ass kisser' for lack of a better term...they were too smart for their own good and prevailed - when does that happen in reality? in other words if Roark was a rarity why follow objectivism at all (except for the annoying fact you will have self respect)?

looking forward to brant's reply as well as chris's

thanks

Edited January 7, 2011 by pippi

[Brant Gaede]

Pippi:

I believe Brant was pointing out to Baker that the theme of the Fountainhead was precisely that you will not "succeed" if you do not play the game, a la Peter Keating.

In his beautifully subtle, sardonic and surgical way, he was pointing out to Baker that it has been obvious to us who have read Ayn's works that the playing the game was clearly stated.

Therefore, Baker should have not had to state the obvious if he had read the Fountainhead which he sure should have read to be here on OL!

Adam

Post Script: You are more than welcome Pippi

well-i guess i am dense I am still not getting the point (have fun phil and co) roark didnt play the game and he succeeded-is the fact you put 'the game' in quotes mean that rand had no respect for the game and didnt want to win it?

thanks

Pippi:

That is what I believe that Brant meant. I guess we will have to wait until he informs us. Roark's success was a standout rarity from the game players or the normal successful architects.

This site has been unavailable for quite a few hours so I'm just now getting to this.

The Fountainhead is about individualism, character and personal integrity. Roark could have failed as an architect or even gone to prison. Ended up like Cameron. Roark considered Cameron to have led a successful life in spite of his dying circumstances. He always measured himself with respect to what kind of person he was, not ostensible success. This does not mean, however, that working as a team player would be wrong. That would depend on what the team was doing and why.

I had a sister, Patricia, who died over six years ago. In spite of her great brain she was horribly cheated in life since she was a baby. She developed an Upper Respiratory Infection (URI) and spent months in a NYC hospital separated from her parents who were allowed to look at her in her ward once a week through glass. This was before antibiotics. A doctor who stopped this practice, when told of it said,"That's too much hospital!" But it was too late. She did not gain any weight over those three months and went into the hospital a normal baby psychologically and came out "different." She was different the rest of her life, never really cognizant of what had happened to her lacking a certain sense of self-awareness. To make a long story short, after many years of this and that and having four children but not the medical education she craved, she had a job that existed on government contract headed by a fraudster. As an accountant--the best job she had ever had--she refused to sign off on a fraudulent financial statement and lost the job--she quit.. That's integrity of one sort. She had a real blind spot for consciously doing something wrong. She simply couldn't and didn't.

--Brant

Edited January 7, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[pippi]

This site has been unavailable for quite a few hours so I'm just now getting to this.

The Fountainhead is about individualism, character and personal integrity. Roark could have failed as an architect or even gone to prison. Ended up like Cameron. Roark considered Cameron to have led a successful life in spite of his dying circumstances. He always meeasured himself with respect to what kind of person he was, not ostensible success. This does not mean, however, that working as a team player would be wrong. That would depend on what the team was doing and why.

I had a sister, Patricia, who died over six years ago. In spite of her great brain she was horribly cheated in life since she was a baby. She developed an Upper Respiratory Infection and spent months in a NYC hospital separated from her parents who were allowed to look at her in her ward once a week through glass. This was before antibiotics. A doctor who stopped this practice when told of it said,"That's too much hospital!" But it was too late. She did not gain any weight over those three months and went into the hospital a normal baby psychologically and came out "different." She was different the rest of her life, never really cognizant of what had happened to her lacking a certain sense of self-awareness. Too make a long story short, after many years of this and that and having four children but not the medical education she craved, she had a job that existed on government contract headed by a fraudster. As an accountant--the best job she had ever had--she refused to sign off on a fraudulent financial statement and lost the job. That's integrity of one sort.

--Brant

Brant I am so sorry about your sister

Thank you for the clarification as well-personal integrity is higher than any value one could hold - if that is what you mean I completely agree

again I am sorry and yes I certainly think she did the right thing re: her refusal to sign-maybe she suffered because of it but she had her peace of mind-and who has that anymore?

ty for the reply

Edited January 7, 2011 by pippi

[pippi]

and yes this site was down for awhile I thought i was banned for a minute there

Edited January 7, 2011 by pippi

[Rich Engle]

trailer park queen

For real? Are you one of my people? What state? Double-wide?

It can be a hard road, but I am convinced that not compromising your integrity creates great rewards. It just looks funny up front, sometimes. . .

In the meantime, you tolerate the knuckleheads, best you can. Don't let them set you up as a fall guy, though!

And while you are fighting that battle, a little plotting and scheming in the background. Hey, if you are in a temperate area and actually do live in a trailer park, I know a lot of ladies who simply mow lawns at ten bucks a cut. A wonderful, easy cash business, with occasional perks.

Maybe also look at some ideas for internet marketing--this is a deep area, but you can dip your toes into it and if you do it right, generate some modest annuity income without being too much a slave for that (you have school and work and such, no?).

MLM (multilevel marketing) gets a lot of flak, but if you hook up with the right sponsor and the right program, again, good modest income. Sometimes a sponsor will even buy you in. Shoot, I know some very successful Avon people--decent side income with low output.

Some might think this "low," but believe me, who cares? They will, if they ever hit the low line. And that is happening to everyone.

MSK knows a lot about Internet marketing--maybe if you are interested in that, you could ask him and he might direct you into something--Mike helps people.

Good luck!

rde

Really does live in a park: picture of my lanai, taken about a half-hour ago. Notice Roscoe the lawn jockey is now on a rotating pedestal. Upgrades!

[algernonsidney]

Does anyone honestly still think job and career success has anything to do with qualities like brains, hard work, determination, and passion?

Success is based on one thing nowadays, and that is simply one's ability to (as I say) "play the game."

I didn't know you hadn't yet read The Fountainhead.

--Brant

Have you read it? It's a novel. Howard Roark and Peter Keating are fictional characters, just like Harry Potter and Sherlock Holmes.

And, while I am on a roll, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny are not real either.

[Selene]

Does anyone honestly still think job and career success has anything to do with qualities like brains, hard work, determination, and passion?

Success is based on one thing nowadays, and that is simply one's ability to (as I say) "play the game."

I didn't know you hadn't yet read The Fountainhead.

--Brant

Have you read it? It's a novel. Howard Roark and Peter Keating are fictional characters, just like Harry Potter and Sherlock Holmes.

And, while I am on a roll, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny are not real either.

I see you more as on toast.

[Robert Campbell]

(I wouldn't pick on you in particular if it weren't for the extremely bad literacy or writing skills: As this list has declined and 'lowest common denominator posters' have come to dominate, the sloth factor - laziness and sloppiness has increased. You are not the only person who posts on this list who displays these traits.

The form it usually takes is 'one-liners' and snarkiness as opposed to making an effort -- taking the time to think things through with clarity, effort, and attention to detail before firing off another brainless post.)

Phil,

I'm still scratching my head as to why you jumped all over pippi.

If you genuinely hold such a low opinion of everyone who contributes to this list, why participate?

Robert Campbell

[Brant Gaede]

Does anyone honestly still think job and career success has anything to do with qualities like brains, hard work, determination, and passion?

Success is based on one thing nowadays, and that is simply one's ability to (as I say) "play the game."

I didn't know you hadn't yet read The Fountainhead.

--Brant

Have you read it? It's a novel. Howard Roark and Peter Keating are fictional characters, just like Harry Potter and Sherlock Holmes.

And, while I am on a roll, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny are not real either.

I'm sorry. Since you got nothing from the novel, I assume you got nothing from her next one either.

--Brant

[pippi]

trailer park queen

For real? Are you one of my people? What state? Double-wide?

No I dont live in a trailer-that is a real nice setup you have there! (I didnt mean to insult anyone living in one either - guess i was indulging in cliche-like my new bff phil-i am sorry)

I like your point about integrity-it sure helps one sleep more soundly. I also like the idea of lawn mowing-cold hard untaxed cash sounds good to me-in my case it would be snow removal right now.

Internet marketing sounds interesting too-will google some of the things you mentioned thank you!

I dont think any of those things sound low at all-like you said i am sure they sound low to some people but who cares.

what do you mean integrity sometimes looks funny upfront?

so you are basically saying 'think outside the box' right? (god i hate that expression-who doesnt? but it sure works in this case)

I am definitely an individualist-have had a number of jobs in my life (high and low) and question authority way too much-not a good factor when the employers offering 'real' jobs expect their workers to practically (insert off color remark here)-I sometimes think i may have oppositional defiant disorder.

pippi

Edited January 7, 2011 by pippi

[PDS]

Pippi: I agree with two pieces of advice you have been given so far.

First, the best time to look for a job is when you have a job already. I say this as somebody who employs 17 people, and as somebody who sees an awful lot of employment applications.

Second, I do think you should practice your punctuation. I say this mainly because I can think of no good reason for you not to do so. Obviously, this is your choice, and you need no lecture from me (or Phil) about it, but it is fairly clear that in some of your posts you have your punctuation more or less on target.

[caroljane]

Pippi, great forechecking!

I know this is no comfort, but your circle of customer-service hell could be lower though you may not believe it. In my call-centre days we had to solicit charity donations, with the occasional relief of armtwisting people to subscribe to TV Guide magazine, or get their portraits taken at Sears.It was a sweatsshop and we ended up unionizing the place. It was the moral thing to do.

Ever since then, I have been polite and nice to unsolicited callers, even collection agencies. (It drives collection agents mad when you sympathize with them for having to do that job). I'll always do that, because as Huck Finn said, "I been there before."

Best of luck,

Chenille

.

trailer park queen

For real? Are you one of my people? What state? Double-wide?

No I dont live in a trailer-that is a real nice setup you have there! (I didnt mean to insult anyone living in one either - guess i was indulging in cliche-like my new bff phil-i am sorry)

I like your point about integrity-it sure helps one sleep more soundly. I also like the idea of lawn mowing-cold hard untaxed cash sounds good to me-in my case it would be snow removal right now.

Internet marketing sounds interesting too-will google some of the things you mentioned thank you!

I dont think any of those things sound low at all-like you said i am sure they sound low to some people but who cares.

what do you mean integrity sometimes looks funny upfront?

so you are basically saying 'think outside the box' right? (god i hate that expression-who doesnt? but it sure works in this case)

I am definitely an individualist-have had a number of jobs in my life (high and low) and question authority way too much-not a good factor when the employers offering 'real' jobs expect their workers to practically (insert off color remark here)-I sometimes think i may have oppositional defiant disorder.

pippi

[Rich Engle]

trailer park queen

For real? Are you one of my people? What state? Double-wide?

No I dont live in a trailer-that is a real nice setup you have there! (I didnt mean to insult anyone living in one either - guess i was indulging in cliche-like my new bff phil-i am sorry)

I like your point about integrity-it sure helps one sleep more soundly. I also like the idea of lawn mowing-cold hard untaxed cash sounds good to me-in my case it would be snow removal right now.

Internet marketing sounds interesting too-will google some of the things you mentioned thank you!

I dont think any of those things sound low at all-like you said i am sure they sound low to some people but who cares.

what do you mean integrity sometimes looks funny upfront?

so you are basically saying 'think outside the box' right? (god i hate that expression-who doesnt? but it sure works in this case)

I am definitely an individualist-have had a number of jobs in my life (high and low) and question authority way too much-not a good factor when the employers offering 'real' jobs expect their workers to practically (insert off color remark here)-I sometimes think i may have oppositional defiant disorder.

pippi

Good luck on all this, as I said before! Oh, I meant that integrity can be painful to maintain in the clinches, but you always feel good about yourself down the line. . .

I remember MSK sent me a good paper on Internet marketing. . .shoot, what was that....have it here somewhere--it is a good start, explains how to tie blogs into sites, affiliate programs, etc. It will turn up--good one to read and get your feet wet. Major guru wrote it...dang. I'll poke around; MSK I'm sure knows right what I mean.

rde

[9thdoctor]

Does anyone honestly still think job and career success has anything to do with qualities like brains, hard work, determination, and passion?

Success is based on one thing nowadays, and that is simply one's ability to (as I say) "play the game."

I didn't know you hadn't yet read The Fountainhead.

--Brant

Have you read it? It's a novel. Howard Roark and Peter Keating are fictional characters, just like Harry Potter and Sherlock Holmes.

And, while I am on a roll, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny are not real either.

Maybe Chris's idea is that today's America has become We the Living instead of The Fountainhead. Even in The Fountainhead Roark complains/threatens that it's becoming a place where he can't allow himself to live.

I'm still scratching my head as to why you jumped all over pippi.

Maybe we can put together a poll, everyone vote whether Phil was a jerk, up or down. I'm sure it'll be unanimous, assuming we don't count Phil's vote, that is.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I remember MSK sent me a good paper on Internet marketing. . .shoot, what was that....have it here somewhere--it is a good start, explains how to tie blogs into sites, affiliate programs, etc. It will turn up--good one to read and get your feet wet. Major guru wrote it...dang. I'll poke around; MSK I'm sure knows right what I mean.

Goobert method of Michael Campbell.

There are several other names for this, too, by other authors. (Nanoblogging, Affiliate Pilot, and some others.)

It's a hell of an effective method for generating ultra-targeted traffic for free, but it takes a little work. If people are interested, I will give the outline of what you are supposed to do.

Frankly, that's the direction I am headed in for a couple of my own projects right now.

Michael

[Philip Coates]

> how to tie blogs into sites, affiliate programs, etc. {Mr. Bojangles}

> It's a hell of an effective method for generating ultra-targeted traffic for free, but it takes a little work. If people are interested, I will give the outline of what you are supposed to do. [MSK]

Michael, I get the impression you are knowledgeable on this and have done a lot of reading. I for one would be interested - and it would get the thread off the food fight.

[pippi]

I would be interested as well but ONLY if you have the time AND inclination Michael.

Thank you.

I will google those terms - Thanks Michael and Rich.

[pippi]

and it would get the thread off the food fight.

You started it sparky - you threw the first twinkie.

[Philip Coates]

Nope. Fraid not.

...Nice try, though, Grammer Gurl.

[Selene]

Nope. Fraid not.

...Nice try, though, Grammer Gurl.

[pippi]

LOL this is amusing-Selene dont insult Phil-it is taking the luster off his armor

But I call this a win/win since he actually typed GURL all on his own

I think I am in love.

(edited to add punctuation)

Edited January 8, 2011 by pippi

[Selene]

LOL this is amusing-Selene dont insult Phil-it is taking the luster off his armor

But I call this a win/win since he actually typed GURL all on his own

I think I am in love.

(edited to add punctuation)

[pippi]

LOL this is amusing-Selene dont insult Phil-it is taking the luster off his armor

But I call this a win/win since he actually typed GURL all on his own

I think I am in love.

(edited to add punctuation)

OMG i almost just threw up laughing! LOLOL

that was perfect ty!

Edited January 8, 2011 by pippi

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I'll put something together for you guys a little later.

I have to write a report as a freebie (ethical bribe) for my mailing list, so I will use this opportunity to get the ball rolling. I'll let you guys have it when I do it.

Here's the outline, though. If you don't understand something right now, don't worry. I didn't either when I started. Ask and I will either explain or point you to a tutorial.

Step 1

- Choose a niche (which means specialized area) where there are lots of people searching, they have strong problems or passions, and they spend money. There is some keyword research work here and some other research--but you actually can start from scratch if you are in one of the high volume areas (money making, relationships, pets, health and a few others). The key is to narrow down the niche (ex.: "Dalmatian puppies" instead of "dog training"). btw - Philosophy sucks as a market.

Step 2

- Choose products for you to sell as an affiliate (at this stage, stick with Adsense--which is just ads, Clickbank digital information products and CPA offers). This part needs a little study, but it's not rocket science.

Step 3

- Get a Google account. Set up Google Alerts with some of the main keywords (receive results once a day) and send the feeds to your Google Reader. You will look at the Reader every day. This will be your work routine, since it will pull targeted information from all over the web.

Step 4

- Set up a blog (start with Blogger since it is very newbie friendly and you already have your Google account). Get your info up (with picture or avatar), including the privacy page that Google Adsense requires and a contact page. Don't forget to put your ads up.

Step 5

- Go to the Reader and start examining the information from other sites as it comes in. When you find something interesting for your niche, grab a short excerpt or so from the content and post it on your blog, being sure to provide a link and proper credit. Ideally, in the post, you should comment before the quoted paragraph and after.

Step 6

- Where possible, comment on the site where you got the excerpt from. Many blogs allow you to do this. In your comment, include a link to your own post (the one you just made in Step 5) or your blog's normal URL. Be careful to make an intelligent comment--and not just spam ("Great post!" and other garbage like that). Good intelligent comments (they can even be short) will cause the readers of that site to become curious about you. Some of them will click on your link and visit your site. This is where your traffic will start coming from.

Step 7

- Bookmark the

article

on the site you just commented on (do not bookmark your comment). You will need to set up some social bookmarking accounts (at least 10) to do this. It's a pain, but at least it's free. Note--in general do not bookmark your own blog. It is far better for the spiders to get to your site traveling through the site you left a comment on--don't worry, the spiders will find your link. (There's a reason for this, but it is a bit technical. At any rate, you will get far better search engine results this way, which will bring more traffic.)

That's it.

Just keep reading the Reader every day, posting on your blog, leaving comments on the other sites and bookmarking the respective articles there.

After about a month or so, if you are active in posting and commenting on other blogs (say quoting and commenting on 5 or more different sites a day), there should be enough traffic coming in to drive you nuts and you should start gaining a reputation. You will be everywhere since the Alerts will be feeding new targeted stuff to your Reader all the time.

Obviously, there's a hell of a lot more you can do with this (including video, Facebook, Twitter, and a ton-load of more stuff), but that's the skeleton.

May those of you who understood some of this go forth and prosper. Even if you hate me later. Do good things for yourselves and those you love. I'm fine with good karma-points.

Frankly, if I had known about this system before OL, there might not be an OL. A forum is the hardest source of commerce on the web, and like I said, philosophy sucks as a market.

But OL grew and I have grown to love it...

(Maybe I am paying for my sins. )

Michael

[pippi]

I only read the first few sentences and I know more than I did when I woke up this morning.

Thank you