why are 90% of viewers scared to post

[RagJohn]

or, more especially scared to initiate a given topic? Or is it laziness, as manifested in the constant barrage of "gimme a link" demands, because they can't be bothered to Google a given topic?

[pippi]

beats me (sarcasm intended)

http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9859

[syrakusos]

... scared to initiate a given topic? Or is it laziness ...

So, Rag, how many books have you written? (Two for me.) How many magazine and newspaper articles have you written? (300 for me). How many peer-reviwed placements? (Just got my first!) How many places did you fly yourself to, rather than taking a commercial flight? (I have 100 hours in the cockpit.) Yesterday, I rode a city bus to and from rather than driving myself. You could give yourself haircuts. Heck, I heard about a Green Beret who took out his own appendix. It is division of labor. Some people do one thing, others another.

Basically, the real question is why so many people post who should not.

Of course, you never know... Perhaps all those lurkers will read your barb, become motivated and post their thanks to you for motivating them ... (could happen... in an alternate universe...)

Edited January 7, 2011 by Michael E. Marotta

[Rich Engle]

or, more especially scared to initiate a given topic? Or is it laziness, as manifested in the constant barrage of "gimme a link" demands, because they can't be bothered to Google a given topic?

I can think of one reason, off the rip. But don't keep yourself up nights over this whole thing.

[kiaer.ts]

... scared to initiate a given topic? Or is it laziness ...

So, Rag, how many books have you written? (Two for me.) How many magazine and newspaper articles have you written? (300 for me). How many peer-reviwed placements? (Just got my first!) How many places did you fly yourself to, rather than taking a commercial flight? (I have 100 hours in the cockpit.) Yesterday, I rode a city bus to and from rather than driving myself. You could give yourself haircuts. Heck, I heard about a Green Beret who took out his own appendix. It is division of labor. Some people do one thing, others another.

Basically, the real question is why so many people post who should not.

Of course, you never know... Perhaps all those lurkers will read your barb, become motivated and post their thanks to you for motivating them ... (could happen... in an alternate universe...)

How funny. My immediate reaction to this thread was, "Some people only post when they actually have something to say, like MEM."

[Starbuckle]

Ragbrain wants to know why some viewers are "scared" to participate. "Or is it laziness, as manifested in the constant barrage of 'gimme a link' demands, because they can't be bothered to Google a given topic?"

I did a survey of non-posting viewers and the most common answer was, "Who wants to deal with cretinous shitheads who bait people in hopes of getting a rise out of them, instead of offering something worth reading? Maybe instead of being 'scared' of the jerks, I simply lack any inclination to waste my time on dealing with them?"

[anthony]

Well, no matter how inelegantly RJ put it, it would be fine to see what that silent majority out there has to say - and this may shake some of them loose.

Concerning the "something to say" stricture of Ted's: damn, I'd never have written a single post if I'd have constrained myself to this. That word, "Something", is enough to give me writer's block. (There is a whole book in the "Nothing" I didn't say, btw.)

Tony ( dunno nothin'.)

[pippi]

... scared to initiate a given topic? Or is it laziness ...

So, Rag, how many books have you written? (Two for me.) How many magazine and newspaper articles have you written? (300 for me). How many peer-reviwed placements? (Just got my first!) How many places did you fly yourself to, rather than taking a commercial flight? (I have 100 hours in the cockpit.)

so you need to be a self congratulating bragger in order to be 'allowed' to post here?

some of you people here make me laugh (btw mem not that i care but phil does-you spelled reviewed wrong)

i think it was a valid question and Starbuckle's answer was quite correct.

Edited January 7, 2011 by pippi

[pippi]

please delete i was being childish

sorry

Edited January 8, 2011 by pippi

[Mike11]

Subject: Serious Fucking Business, Evasion, and Everybody Is Gay but Me

It has come to my attention that the "Drama Whoring : Lulz" Ratio in this thread is intolerably low. While many posters like Ninth Doctor and Rich Engle have a demonstrated ability to produce high quantities of WIN, this thread is made of fail.

I move that this be trolled more effectively or locked.

/b/

Edited January 7, 2011 by Joel Mac Donald

[Selene]

Subject: Serious Fucking Business, Evasion, and Everybody Is Gay but Me

It has come to my attention that the "Drama Whoring : Lulz" Ratio in this thread is intolerably low. While many posters like Ninth Doctor and Rich Engle have a demonstrated ability to produce high quantities of WIN, this thread is made of fail.

I move that this be trolled more effectively or locked.

/b/

Point of information[which is always in order]...WIN ??? "...made of fail." means...???

[9thdoctor]

Where does this 90% figure come from? How are the number of views calculated? Is it unique IP’s, and over what time frame does a repeat view from the same IP count as a second view? Meaning, if I look at the Rewrite Squad thread once a day for 50 days, is that 50 views? What if I look twice a day for 50 days? I doubt RagJohn knows any of the above. Beyond that, why should one assume that everyone, or even 1 in 10 of the people who view a thread have anything to say about it, or have the time and/or inclination to share?

Now I don’t doubt that there are fundys who visit, and who wouldn’t dare post lest they have to don the sackcloth and ashes. Then there are probably people who have been run off by likes of Phil, who nonetheless pay a visit now and then. There's not enough data to draw any conclusions.

I suppose that about answers RagJohn, in his case I hope he stays away.

[Rich Engle]

I do believe this board has survey capability--we could find out something that way. Leave it up for awhile. You figure the ones that bother to answer it would be of interest.

Of course, you don't first jam poison down their throats, like this thread was started.

RJ seems to do what I have been enduring Kimmler doing, more often than not; the formula appears to be highly similar. It comes off as snotty and sour and for that matter, self-ingratiating in a certain way.

So you get tired of trying to haul the thing back up to sea-level--right off the rip you have to get into that if you are out to make anything of it. It gets old.

The tone of these kinds of initial posts just stick in my ears...the neener-neener-neener, neener. neener-neener rhythm of them. The curmudgeon-ness.

Ptui.

So that's all that had to be done. Thread topic "Survey for non-posters!" A couple of questions. Discuss results. Instead, doo-doo on the wall, again.

rde

Ptui.

[syrakusos]

... so you need to be a self congratulating bragger in order to be 'allowed' to post here? ...

Sorry to put you off there, pippi, but I expected it to be understood that the regular posters here have their own list of achievements. Objectivists are nothing if not achievers. MSK stopped talking about his music a few years ago. But he recommends things he discovers in his daily work.

But the upshot was quite simple: I write; they read. It is division of labor. Even though I can and have cut my own hair, I go to the barber and not because I am "afraid" of giving myself a haircut. I just hate the vacuuming that is required -- and I only know one way to do it. The barber is pretty and pretty skilled. The rest of the post explained that.

But the bragging, that bothered you. We have this Christian humility in our culture that even Objectivists have not gotten over. You are not allowed to talk about yourself. Similarly, we don't talk about money. I am happy to discuss what I do, what I charge, what the costs are. But talking shop is not for polite society.

Done anything interesting lately, pippi?

[pippi]

ok michael I hear you-but why bring up your accomplishments in a thread that is asking about why people dont post?

You also listed them almost verbatim in a post about atlas shrugged - which seemed completely out in left field from the point of the thread (it also seems out that way here)

When I first read it, I had no idea what I wanted to be when I grew up. I still don't. But I sold a lot of writing along the way, 300 newspaper and magazine articles, two books, and two science fiction stories, and gotten some literary awards for my efforts. My specialties are factory automation and numismatics: machinery and money.

http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9819&st=0&p=118646&fromsearch=1entry118646

what is your point in posting this information in these two threads because I am not seeing it

?

Edited January 8, 2011 by pippi

[caroljane]

... so you need to be a self congratulating bragger in order to be 'allowed' to post here? ...

Sorry to put you off there, pippi, but I expected it to be understood that the regular posters here have their own list of achievements. Objectivists are nothing if not achievers. MSK stopped talking about his music a few years ago. But he recommends things he discovers in his daily work.

But the upshot was quite simple: I write; they read. It is division of labor. Even though I can and have cut my own hair, I go to the barber and not because I am "afraid" of giving myself a haircut. I just hate the vacuuming that is required -- and I only know one way to do it. The barber is pretty and pretty skilled. The rest of the post explained that.

But the bragging, that bothered you. We have this Christian humility in our culture that even Objectivists have not gotten over. You are not allowed to talk about yourself. Similarly, we don't talk about money. I am happy to discuss what I do, what I charge, what the costs are. But talking shop is not for polite society.

Done anything interesting lately, pippi?

I disagree that "you are not allowed to talk about yourself" (eavesdrop on a bus sometime; people talk about very little else.) I think you meant, "talk about your achievements" , which is often perceived as boasting. I don't think this has much to do with a residue of Christian humility. It's more a product of cultural convention and individual personality.

You are right that discussing one's income is a taboo, but it is a relatively new one that has risen as Christianity has declined. In some cultures it is perfectly acceptable to ask someone how much money they make.

And in the Objectivist subculture, I think there would be special pressures to equate productive achievement with high compensation, despite Rand's strictures that money itself is not a value.

[pippi]

Done anything interesting lately, pippi?

Of course but I must continue to ask - what does this have to do with the topic of this thread? And by interesting what do you mean? I made a killer pot roast and managed to not get fired from my job today-oh I also wrote 301 published articles.

Honestly.

To answer your question I find everything I do interesting.

[pippi]

And in the Objectivist subculture, I think there would be special pressures to equate productive achievement with high compensation, despite Rand's strictures that money itself is not a value.

I agree with the definition that money is not a value it is the product of a value(s) sometimes -I have only read Rand's novels-what nonfiction Rand would be worth reading if any?

Thank you.

[caroljane]

And in the Objectivist subculture, I think there would be special pressures to equate productive achievement with high compensation, despite Rand's strictures that money itself is not a value.

I agree with the definition that money is not a value it is the product of a value(s) sometimes -I have only read Rand's novels-what nonfiction Rand would be worth reading if any?

Thank you.

That question is definitely for the Rand scholars here, I am not one. Now that you have tamed Mr. Coates (I think he has a crush on you too!) maybe he will share the contents of his scriptorium.

[Selene]

And in the Objectivist subculture, I think there would be special pressures to equate productive achievement with high compensation, despite Rand's strictures that money itself is not a value.

I agree with the definition that money is not a value it is the product of a value(s) sometimes -I have only read Rand's novels-what nonfiction Rand would be worth reading if any?

Thank you.

That question is definitely for the Rand scholars here, I am not one. Now that you have tamed Mr. Coates (I think he has a crush on you too!) maybe he will share the contents of his scriptorium.

Thanks Carol...new word for me...learn and live!!

scrip·to·ri·um

noun \skrip-ˈtȯr-ē-əm\ plural scrip·to·ria\-ē-ə\

Definition of SCRIPTORIUM

: a copying room for scribes especially in a medieval monastery

Origin of SCRIPTORIUM

Medieval Latin, from Latin scribereFirst Known Use: 1774

[caroljane]

And in the Objectivist subculture, I think there would be special pressures to equate productive achievement with high compensation, despite Rand's strictures that money itself is not a value.

I agree with the definition that money is not a value it is the product of a value(s) sometimes -I have only read Rand's novels-what nonfiction Rand would be worth reading if any?

Thank you.

That question is definitely for the Rand scholars here, I am not one. Now that you have tamed Mr. Coates (I think he has a crush on you too!) maybe he will share the contents of his scriptorium.

Thanks Carol...new word for me...learn and live!!

scrip·to·ri·um

noun \skrip-ˈtȯr-ē-əm\ plural scrip·to·ria\-ē-ə\

Definition of SCRIPTORIUM

: a copying room for scribes especially in a medieval monastery

Origin of SCRIPTORIUM

Medieval Latin, from Latin scribereFirst Known Use: 1774

You're welcome! I'm sure there will be one in the Coates Cathedral.

[Rich Engle]

You're welcome! I'm sure there will be one in the Coates Cathedral.

I wanna go when he finishes it. I'm hoping he has services during the week, though, because I play every Sunday. HEY! Maybe he is going to have music! I could get another church gig! I do tiddlywinks, I do I do I do!!!

But for him I'm thinking more like accordion music. Definitely!

[caroljane]

You're welcome! I'm sure there will be one in the Coates Cathedral.

I wanna go when he finishes it. I'm hoping he has services during the week, though, because I play every Sunday. HEY! Maybe he is going to have music! I could get another church gig! I do tiddlywinks, I do I do I do!!!

But for him I'm thinking more like accordion music. Definitely!

Yes! I hear Walter Ostanek is available for ecumenical gigs--and his grandsons could back him up on the Northumbrian pipes. (I also know a guy who plays a mean lute}.

[caroljane]

A further inspiration! You should compose the music for the cathedral dedication. "Gloria in Objectivis Philo"? Vocal interludes by Mario Lanza. All the instruments would play in different keys, of course. Sound tempting?

[Selene]

You're welcome! I'm sure there will be one in the Coates Cathedral.

I wanna go when he finishes it. I'm hoping he has services during the week, though, because I play every Sunday. HEY! Maybe he is going to have music! I could get another church gig! I do tiddlywinks, I do I do I do!!!

But for him I'm thinking more like accordion music. Definitely!

Rich:

When I was teaching at Queens College, I taught both day and night school. Day school students were the eighteen (18) to twenty-two (22) year old range, whereas night school students ranged from eighteen (18) to eighty (80).

Since I was not handicapped by any "education" courses, I was an excellent teacher. Each student chose one topic that they wanted to invest their learning of rhetoric in for the semester.

One night, a middle aged man in my class came up to me at the break and said, "You mean we can chose any topic that we're interested in?" I answered, "Yes, of course, as long as you can phrase it as a proposition."

Whereupon, he explained that he wanted to argue: Resolved that: The accordion should be included in the symphonic orchestra.

He was a professional musician and he loved the instrument.

Now, I could have pulled a Phil and pompously and condescendingly denied his proposed topic as not worthy of Aristotelian rhetoric.

I would have lost a good student who would have hated the semester and probably resented everything that I taught about rhetoric, reason and of course Rand.

At any rate, he was ecstatic, one of my better students and his final "debate" was filled with beautiful music that he played during his presentation. The class gave him a standing ovation.

This is one of the aspects of Phil's claiming to be an "educator" that I just do not get. His methodology here is completely counter weighted to education.

Adam

Edited January 8, 2011 by Selene