Good people doing bad things...

[Rich Engle]

So I guess a blow job is out of the question?

[Brant Gaede]

I've never seen anything so destructively vicious in over 22 years of Internet postings starting in 1988 with my friend Petr Beckmann's "Fort Freedom," which, strictly speaking, was pre-Internet. Starting with Rich's first post in this contretemps, this part of the thread should be spun off into the garbage pile and locked down. At least that's the way I feel about it. Or thrown away.

--Brant

[George H. Smith]

So I guess a blow job is out of the question?

It depends. Whom would you like to blow?

Ghs

[Charles R. Anderson]

I admire Angie. She has only brought goodness and beauty into my life. It is despicable that any man would call her a whore and other such ugly names. This has revealed a monstrous ugliness I would not have expected from Rich based on his pre-"evolved" nature, at least as it appeared to me then. It is always disappointing to find that someone has devolved, but it does happen.

Talking about masturbation and cock sucking as though they are nasty and ugly is not my way. In the right context they many more sexual acts can be beautiful and that is exactly what they are in the well-lived life. Ugly lives breed other outcomes and many of life's great joys and ecstatic pleasures are dirtied. I love life and I revel in its many pleasures, whether from solving a complex materials problem, advocating individual rights, marveling at the beauty of one of Angie's sunsets, or enjoying sex with a lover.

Life can be very good. But, to make it good often requires a great determination to make it so. This is rarely done by dwelling too long in ugly places. It is done by forming a world worth living in. We each have some opportunities to build our own Galt's Gulch in our lives by choosing to bring good people into our lives and simply not associating with those who have ugly characters. I am fortunate to have a number of good, life-positive people in my life. Angie is one of those people and I love her for it.

One of the most important individual rights we have is the freedom of association. This freedom is a marvelous tool for the enhancement of happiness and life-positive experiences and the minimization of dreary and life-damning experiences.

George, Brant, and Shane: Thank you!

[George H. Smith]

Charles,

It's an old story, but I fail to understand how, in this day and age, supposedly rational men can continue to employ flagrant double-standards in regard to women. Angie is obviously sexually self-assertive. She has a manner of expressing her ideas about sex that no one, including Rich, would give a second thought to if similar ideas had been expressed by a man.

On the contrary, the man would probably be admired for his frankness. His female counterpart, however, is still viewed in some circles as a "whore" and worse. Everyone knows that this ignorant attitude still persists in American culture, especially among rednecks and Christians, but I never expected to find it in an Objectivist forum.

Ghs

[sbeaulieu]

If Michael reads this, I'll ask that he lock this thread. What started out as a canvas for open ideas has turned into a witch hunt. I'd rather this thread not exist as a means for Rich to further demean Angie. Whatever scars their past might have left, I think it's absurd to be laid open in this manner.

Rich, you've outdone yourself. You go to lengths to assassinate Angie's character, and hide behind your wordsmithing and music as if it were a measuring stick for humanity. You should make comparisons among your peers, and that based on talent alone.

From what I've read thus far, I'll take Angie's typos and personality over the likes of you over and over. I'm sure that's fine with you.

Again, Michael...please close this thread.

OP

~ Shane

[Brant Gaede]

If Michael reads this, I'll ask that he lock this thread. What started out as a canvas for open ideas has turned into a witch hunt. I'd rather this thread not exist as a means for Rich to further demean Angie. Whatever scars their past might have left, I think it's absurd to be laid open in this manner.

Rich, you've outdone yourself. You go to lengths to assassinate Angie's character, and hide behind your wordsmithing and music as if it were a measuring stick for humanity. You should make comparisons among your peers, and that based on talent alone.

From what I've read thus far, I'll take Angie's typos and personality over the likes of you over and over. I'm sure that's fine with you.

Again, Michael...please close this thread.

OP

~ Shane

Michael doesn't have to close this thread. All he has to do is split this crap off into a new thread starting where Rich came aboard then lock down this thing in the Garbage Pile or throw the whole thing away.

--Brant

[Ellen Stuttle]

Doing things I have never done before? Um, yes. That is called evolution (open space for making stupid Darwin yuk-yuk jokes).

Charles, all, Rich isn't doing things he's "never done before." There's no devolution. He's periodically talked foul-mouthed about one person or another whom he dislikes as long as I've seen his posts on various lists (starting in 2004 on NB's old list). Read some of his diatribes about Perigo. Of course, folks here give those a pass, considering their target, but Rich can make Perigo's epithets look dainty.

Brant, I think you're forgetting some of the characters on Old Atlantis in your claim not to have seen anything so vicious in your previous list experience.

Nonetheless, Rich's stuff on this thread has been way up there -- or down there -- on a scale of foul.

Ellen

Edited May 7, 2010 by Ellen Stuttle

[George H. Smith]

If Michael reads this, I'll ask that he lock this thread. What started out as a canvas for open ideas has turned into a witch hunt. I'd rather this thread not exist as a means for Rich to further demean Angie. Whatever scars their past might have left, I think it's absurd to be laid open in this manner.

Rich, you've outdone yourself. You go to lengths to assassinate Angie's character, and hide behind your wordsmithing and music as if it were a measuring stick for humanity. You should make comparisons among your peers, and that based on talent alone.

From what I've read thus far, I'll take Angie's typos and personality over the likes of you over and over. I'm sure that's fine with you.

Again, Michael...please close this thread.

OP

~ Shane

Michael doesn't have to close this thread. All he has to do is split this crap off into a new thread starting where Rich came aboard then lock down this thing in the Garbage Pile or throw the whole thing away.

--Brant

Excellent idea.

Ghs

[Charles R. Anderson]

Doing things I have never done before? Um, yes. That is called evolution (open space for making stupid Darwin yuk-yuk jokes).

Charles, all, Rich isn't doing things he's "never done before." There's no devolution. He's periodically talked foul-mouthed about one person or another whom he dislikes as long as I've seen his posts on various lists (starting in 2004 on NB's old list). Read some of his diatribes about Perigo. Of course, folks here give those a pass, considering their target, but Rich can make Perigo's epithets look dainty.

Brant, I think you're forgetting some of the characters on Old Atlantis in your claim not to have seen anything so vicious in your previous list experience.

Nonetheless, Rich's stuff on this thread has been way up there -- or down there -- on a scale of foul.

Ellen

Thanks for your longer term and wider perspective on Rich's past behavior, Ellen. Your reminder has brought some memory back that Rich and Perigo were once at odds, but the part of that conflict I saw was but a small part of the total and outside the main context. Such interaction as I had with him in the past was limited and mostly over a comparatively brief time. Some people do seem to go through some long periodicity mood swings on these interactive blogs, as well as short periodicity mood swings. It can be more than I care to deal with over any long stretches of my life, which is why my current blogging is mostly on my own blog. I miss the interaction of talking to many fairly rational people, but the tax levied in having to deal with complete and utter irrationality is a high one. I can moderate the complete loons out or use them as examples of poorly thought out ideas as I wish on my own blog. I like that control. The same is true of my work environment, so I am doing what suits me best in owning and operating my own laboratory. The Objectivist forums tend to be emotional roller coaster rides in many ways, which is fine for awhile, but not good for too steady a diet.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I got notified offline and I just read this.

What a mess!

Is this a new form of humor? Good Lord! This is a humor section.

Anyway...

Folks, Rich is a good guy--seriously, he's a really good guy. He's just on a bad trip right now.

Rich, you lost your center. Get it back. Not everyone can, but you can. You're supposed to be writing important stuff. So do it. (I'll be getting to your creative stuff before too long. I expect it's much better quality--in all respects--than what you did on this thread...)

Angie, my apologies that this happened on my forum. I would have intervened sooner, but I am buried up to my eyeballs in work and I just don't have the time to get around to all the threads in this phase of my life.

I'm going to think about what to do with this thread. I don't want to wade through all that crap again, but it certainly doesn't belong in the humor section anymore. If it weren't for some more thoughtful posts, I would just peel it off shortly after that "informative" cock ring banter and just toss the peeled off part in the Garbage Pile.

If that's OK with you folks, and nobody will feel slighted (especially Charles), that is exactly what I will do.

Michael