Health Care

[DavidMcK]

Do you think that when the House dems started chanting "Yes we can! Yes we can!" that this could be interpreted as a chant to reality...their reply in effect to anyone who says that you can't consume more than you produce?

[9thdoctor]

A stream of conciousness association:

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In 2012 it'll be time to roll out the bullwhip scene.

[psychoanaleesis]

Do you think that when the House dems started chanting "Yes we can! Yes we can!" that this could be interpreted as a chant to reality...their reply in effect to anyone who says that you can't consume more than you produce?

Yup, could be a manifestation of them living in their "unrealities" or "malleable realities". Goes to show the true nature of solons where instead of taking decisive action, they resort to "prayers" in hopes to deny the fact that is currently before them.

[Robert Campbell]

I don't doubt some who voted NO would have voted YES if their votes had been needed. The Crats would have simply upped the pressure more to get what they wanted.

Brant,

So it might seem.

But if La Pelosi had any more votes in her pocket, why not schedule the vote earlier? As much as a couple of months earlier?

Bart Stupak has gone straight from enjoying his 15 minutes of fame to being one of the most widely reviled politicians in America.

Here's the site of a Republican who's running against him:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=287806148754&ref=ts

I don't care for the guy's stand on abortion, but I doubt it's more extreme than Stupak's own.

Robert Campbell

[Chris Grieb]

I am delighted that OL is not giving in.

[jeffrey smith]

Does anyone know who's running against Bart Stupak?

Judging from the final vote totals—is it possible that La Pelosi was bluffing Bart and his crew, and he fell for it?

Robert Campbell

I think that if Stupak and company had voted against the bill, some other Democrats would decided the ship was sinking and abandoned it by voting no; so the margin of defeat would have been larger than the real world margin of victory. Of course like all counterfactual history, it will be impossible to prove me wrong

Somewhere on one of these threads, I predicted that Stupak would find some reason as a cover to vote for the bill. I was wrong about the specific excuse he used, but I seem to be correct about the general result. The only wonder is that it took so long for Pelosi and Obama to come up with the cover story for his benefit.

Jeffrey S.

[jeffrey smith]

Is it time for Civil disobedience? There should be a test case right after if it's ratified and another, and another and another... You still have the potential beloved America. Fight it, fight for your freedom and all those who love it shall rise up in answer to your noble and resolute call.

Here and elsewhere, it's a lost cause and the only thing I can do for myself in the name of the spirit which you are founded, is not to give in. I take away my consent from the muck whenever I can. To uphold myself by rejecting their premise of man living for another. Godspeed to my beloved land and true home.

Unfortunately, there won't be anything on the part of individual citizens to disobey until 2014. The entities directly impacted by the first changes included in the law are the insurance companies, and despite those initial changes, they are the ultimate beneficiaries of this law: they're facing a future in which every person in this country will be forced to buy their product whether they want to or not, and a large portion of those people will be doing so by paying premiums subsidized at least in part by the US government.

Jeffrey S.

[psychoanaleesis]

Unfortunately, there won't be anything on the part of individual citizens to disobey until 2014. The entities directly impacted by the first changes included in the law are the insurance companies, and despite those initial changes, they are the ultimate beneficiaries of this law: they're facing a future in which every person in this country will be forced to buy their product whether they want to or not, and a large portion of those people will be doing so by paying premiums subsidized at least in part by the US government.

Jeffrey S.

Pt1. Should what you mention be accepted by insurance firms, I'll only wait until those companies realize that the government is favoring one or two of them through "pull" which brings to mind - strings which have something on the other end... and as I can visualize: A puppet.

Pt2. When that time comes, I'll be laughing so hard and with teary eyes say, "I'm not laughing with you, I'm laughing at you." I'd do that, because it is so absurd that with all their supposed "powers to see the future" of their clients' health, stock market, etcetera, they could not foretell their own because they were blindfolded when they accepted.

Pt3. And from where will the government get the funds to subsidize that large portion of the populace? Hmm, I'd like to see them do a hat-trick on this one just for spite.

Question: What's on the calendar of activities in 2014 that would warrant civil disobedience Jeff?

Edited March 23, 2010 by David Lee

[jeffrey smith]

Unfortunately, there won't be anything on the part of individual citizens to disobey until 2014. The entities directly impacted by the first changes included in the law are the insurance companies, and despite those initial changes, they are the ultimate beneficiaries of this law: they're facing a future in which every person in this country will be forced to buy their product whether they want to or not, and a large portion of those people will be doing so by paying premiums subsidized at least in part by the US government.

Jeffrey S.

Pt1. Should what you mention be accepted by insurance firms, I'll only wait until those companies realize that the government is favoring one or two of them through "pull" which brings to mind - strings which have something on the other end... and as I can visualize: A puppet.

Pt2. When that time comes, I'll be laughing so hard and with teary eyes say, "I'm not laughing with you, I'm laughing at you." I'd do that, because it is so absurd that with all their supposed "powers to see the future" of their clients' health, stock market, etcetera, they could not foretell their own because they were blindfolded when they accepted.

Pt3. And from where will the government get the funds to subsidize that large portion of the populace? Hmm, I'd like to see them do a hat-trick on this one just for spite.

Question: What's on the calendar of activities in 2014 that would warrant civil disobedience Jeff?

Re: Pt1 and Pt2--the insurance companies are already intertwined through regulation and legislation to the state governments that this will only add one more layer of complexity. Nor will it necessarily be a bad idea from the perspective of the insurance companies. All they have to do is find out who to get in bed with at the federal level. They're already sharing the appropriate beds at the state level.

Pt3. Absolutely correct.

Question--the individual mandate goes into effect in 2014, so that's when government will start forcing things on individual persons. Until then, there's nothing an individual can do that would draw a civil disobedience consequence.

Jeffrey S.

[psychoanaleesis]

I'd like to hear this played on a fiddle if possible with a jolly ol' tune to boot! The lyrics goes:

...Both the ovines and bovines follow their Judas goats

who says, this way, everyone, don't be afraid. All ye suffering shall cease.

Follow the farmer, don't stray, heaven is just a yard away.

Oh don't look left nor right, you'll be an outcast and that's no fun.

Don't look ahead too, it's gonna be a surprise!

There's gonna be a BASH! You'll feel bliss real soon...

No, that's not dread, you're excited!

Sshh, here it comes!...

Edited March 23, 2010 by David Lee

[DavidMcK]

I wonder if it would be legal and practical to create a kind of medical insurance Co-op. I couldn't do it because my workplace provides my medical insurance and if I opted out I wouldn't get a pay raise or anything, but other people without insurance may be able to pool their resources and insure themselves to escape the fines and stay out of this system. Sound like a lot of work to organize.

[psychoanaleesis]

I wonder if it would be legal and practical to create a kind of medical insurance Co-op. I couldn't do it because my workplace provides my medical insurance and if I opted out I wouldn't get a pay raise or anything, but other people without insurance may be able to pool their resources and insure themselves to escape the fines and stay out of this system. Sound like a lot of work to organize.

That, and it's basically a trade-off. You agreed, so there you have it.

In my workplace or in my country in general, my company don't even have those "health benefits", save for the *blech! socialized one. I'd wish they'd just let me keep the housing fund and my social security and that damn socialized health care contributions for my paycheck.

But hey, my workplace won't keep me if they think I'll put them in jeopardy with the bureaucratic thugs right? I could only shake my head and think, "I could have spent this elsewhere rather than having those crooks 'securing my future'..." I could have taken it to a bank and have it earn interest or took it to a bar and have that expensive drink worrying less about getting through till next payday.

Edited March 23, 2010 by David Lee

[psychoanaleesis]

Do you think that when the House dems started chanting "Yes we can! Yes we can!" that this could be interpreted as a chant to reality...their reply in effect to anyone who says that you can't consume more than you produce?

Hmmm, the GOP members (if any of them were using good reason) could have shouted, "Own up! Own up!"

[CNA]

I've been receiving a lot of notifications that this thread is active but so much going on that I haven't had time to go through it.

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet...appalling but definitely NOT surprising. Dread what the coming years living in the US is going to be like....so much for freedom. As everyone knows, it's only the beginning and will continue to get much worse. Ulterior motives abound. Makes me sick to my stomach.

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