Jules Troy Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 As an ex NLP practitioner NLP is bad mmkayyyy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 As an ex NLP practitioner NLP is bad mmkayyyy...Jules,You mean like this?Bwuhahahahaha!!!Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 As an ex NLP practitioner NLP is bad mmkayyyy... Jules,You mean like this?Bwuhahahahaha!!!Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Lol Ya!That is pretty twisted all on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Like I said, there's nothing to stop you. In this case you mix up science with mysticism and you can adduce enough mystical nonsense to make any point you feel like or "think" like as you claim more knowledge of Him... Simply becoming aware of the obvious truth that God exists through your own experience is actually very little because it isn't like intellectual knowledge as if you could learn a bunch of facts sitting in a government school like people are taught everything else. There are two reasons people choose not to see the obvious: 1. Thoughts. 2. Emotions. People choose to become so fixated upon their thoughts and emotions to the point of becoming entangled within them. In that slavish condition it is impossible to discern the good thoughts from the bad because the belief that goes along with immersion is that thought and emotion comprise the totality of our being. So we compulsively and indiscriminately emote and act upon every thought, because how could we act contrary to ourselves if this is all we are. This is, of course, a lie... for we are more than just thought and emotion. Contrast that previous debilitated condition to the realization that you are not thought, but are the observer of thought. Now you have an objective state of being which is outside of thought looking in on it, and now you can calmly choose to which thoughts you will emote, and upon which you will act, and those which you don't. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Like I said, there's nothing to stop you. In this case you mix up science with mysticism and you can adduce enough mystical nonsense to make any point you feel like or "think" like as you claim more knowledge of Him...Simply becoming aware of the obvious truth that God exists through your own experience is actually very little because it isn't like intellectual knowledge as if you could learn a bunch of facts sitting in a government school like people are taught everything else. There are two reasons people choose not to see the obvious:1. Thoughts.2. Emotions.People choose to become so fixated upon their thoughts and emotions to the point of becoming entangled within them. In that slavish condition it is impossible to discern the good thoughts from the bad because the belief that goes along with immersion is that thought and emotion comprise the totality of our being. So we compulsively and indiscriminately emote and act upon every thought, because how could we act contrary to ourselves if this is all we are. This is, of course, a lie... for we are more than just thought and emotion.Contrast that previous debilitated condition to the realization that you are not thought, but are the observer of thought. Now you have an objective state of being which is outside of thought looking in on it, and now you can calmly choose to which thoughts you will emote, and upon which you will act, and those which you don't. GregIt is not the least bit "obvious" that God exists. For starters there is not a dight or a smidgin of empirical evidence to support the proposition. Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I believe! I believe!I believe I will have a beer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I believe! I believe!I believe I will have a beer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It is not the least bit "obvious" that God exists. Not obvious for you... ...for long ago you freely chose to regard the totality of yourself to be solely a product of intellect and emotion... and nothing else. So that is all you will take with you straight to your grave just as you deserve. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Oh he's good, Michael. He's very good. He's so good I had to call your attention to it. Brant... how many times have I said that once we have freely chosen our view, we take it and all of its consequences straight to our grave just as we deserve? (hint: way more than once... ) Understanding this truth is what sets me free from attempting to convince others. Instead, I express that I'm unconvinced by others. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaalChatzaf Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It is not the least bit "obvious" that God exists.Not obvious for you......for long ago you freely chose to regard the totality of yourself to be solely a product of intellect and emotion... and nothing else. So that is all you will take with you straight to your grave just as you deserve.GregI am not talking about beliefs. I am talking about evidence. Ba'al Chatzaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It is not the least bit "obvious" that God exists. Not obvious for you... ...for long ago you freely chose to regard the totality of yourself to be solely a product of intellect and emotion... and nothing else. So that is all you will take with you straight to your grave just as you deserve. GregI am not talking about beliefs. I am talking about evidence. Ba'al Chatzaf Have a nice trip, Bob. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Have a nice trip, Bob. GregThe supremacy of mind over matter--facts generally, btw--is the exact opposite of Objectivism, and science.--Brantdon't argue with an irrationalist: he wins, you lose; he never loses; there are innumerable ways to be irrational Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Have a nice trip, Bob. Greg The supremacy of mind over matter--facts generally, btw--is the exact opposite of Objectivism, and science. I agree, Brant. I put no trust in intellect (mind) or emotion, as neither can be relied upon for moral guidance. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I agree, Brant. I put no trust in intellect (mind) or emotion, as neither can be relied upon for moral guidance.GregYou may "agree" but that's contradicted by what you advocate.--Brantyou're blowing smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I agree, Brant. I put no trust in intellect (mind) or emotion, as neither can be relied upon for moral guidance. Greg You may "agree" but that's contradicted by what you advocate. There is nothing preventing you from regarding the totality of your being as only intellect and emotion and nothing else... and acting upon every thought and emotion as if you had no other choice. It's purely your own decision, Brant. That's how it works. There is absolutely no coercion in the decision you freely made. It has to be this way so that you completely own the consequences of your choice, and so that there is no one else to blame. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 There is nothing preventing you from regarding the totality of your being as only intellect and emotion and nothing else... and acting upon every thought and emotion as if you had no other choice. It's purely your own decision, Brant. That's how it works. There is absolutely no coercion in the decision you freely made. It has to be this way so that you completely own the consequences of your choice, and so that there is no one else to blame.GregYou have not established what I regard as the "totality" of my "being." Are you not aware that we have no common foundational basis for this subject and are talking past each other as we usually do?--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Brant you must torture him in the fires of the anti life music thread! LOL... No wait ..he will probably force us to listen to christian rock group Stryper..Now that would be hell on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 There is nothing preventing you from regarding the totality of your being as only intellect and emotion and nothing else... and acting upon every thought and emotion as if you had no other choice. It's purely your own decision, Brant. That's how it works. There is absolutely no coercion in the decision you freely made. It has to be this way so that you completely own the consequences of your choice, and so that there is no one else to blame. Greg You have not established what I regard as the "totality" of my "being." Brant, you've already established that you disagree with my description of humans as being more than thought and emotion, and my assertion that we are actually observers of thought and emotion who can choose to act independent of thought and emotion. It's obvious that you have a problem with this description, and haven't hesitated to make your disagreement known just as you're doing now. I'm ok with that as it is an outside the box view of ourselves which is not commonly held. Are you not aware that we have no common foundational basis for this subject and are talking past each other as we usually do? --Brant Yes. It is the result of each of us having chosen two completely different views. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Brant you must torture him in the fires of the anti life music thread! Excuse me while I just stand aside and let you guys kill yourselves with anti life music. This is my kind of happy life affirming music... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FZbcoWrUsw Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Well my eardrums anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 There is nothing preventing you from regarding the totality of your being as only intellect and emotion and nothing else... and acting upon every thought and emotion as if you had no other choice. It's purely your own decision, Brant. That's how it works. There is absolutely no coercion in the decision you freely made. It has to be this way so that you completely own the consequences of your choice, and so that there is no one else to blame.Greg You have not established what I regard as the "totality" of my "being."Brant, you've already established that you disagree with my description of humans as being more than thought and emotion, and my assertion that we are actually observers of thought and emotion who can choose to act independent of thought and emotion. It's obvious that you have a problem with this description, and haven't hesitated to make your disagreement known just as you're doing now. I'm ok with that as it is an outside the box view of ourselves which is not commonly held.Are you not aware that we have no common foundational basis for this subject and are talking past each other as we usually do?--BrantYes.It is the result of each of us having chosen two completely different views.GregNo, it's the why of the views not the views as such. Me why, you view = views that may be the same or different and it hardly matters. It's like you found where you want to be and turned off your brain respecting that which doesn't seem to directly impact you and your life as you have made it. Instead of going to the beach and swimming in the ocean you only make use of your backyard pool. I don't object to that. You'll likely not be attacked by sharks, it's the quality of thinking. You could program a computer with your beliefs and suppositions and have it write your posts. The futility of ratiocination with a computer is evident in trying to engage you. Unlike a computer I assume you're enjoying yourself with this unimpregnable non-intellectualism. While you may have fooled yourself with what you're epistemologically all about--I don't think so but don't care--not me.--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Brant that was just ...beautifully poetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 No, it's the why of the views not the views as such. Me why, you view = views that may be the same or different and it hardly matters. It only matters for the person who made the choice. And objective reality is what lets them know whether or not they're right or wrong by the results of what they are doing when they act on their chosen view. It's like you found where you want to be and turned off your brain respecting that which doesn't seem to directly impact you and your life as you have made it. You are so right, Brant. Since I have no control over or personal responsibility for anything which does not directly impact my life, I don't squander my attention on it, but instead direct my attention on attending to the duties of life over which I do have responsibility and control. Some of this chosen view comes from not watching television, the purpose of which is to get people excited and angry over things for which they have absolutely no control or responsibility. Television is for victim worshippers. Man, that's just an effing stupid waste of time that only makes people more upset and frustrated than they already are. Instead of going to the beach and swimming in the ocean you only make use of your backyard pool. Here's our difference... for you that's just a virtual intellectual metaphor, but for me it's the objective reality of actually living in the real world. I take care of my neighbor's pool and can swim whenever I want... and I live close to the beach and am free to go into the ocean whenever I want. See the difference now? You're more of a theoretical thinker while I'm more of a literal doer. I don't object to that. You'll likely not be attacked by sharks, it's the quality of thinking. You could program a computer with your beliefs and suppositions and have it write your posts. The futility of ratiocination with a computer is evident in trying to engage you. The reason you're trying to engage me in an argument is that you disagree with my view. I fully understand that you do not agree with the view that humans are more than intellect and emotion... and that encapsulates our difference. Unlike a computer I assume you're enjoying yourself with this unimpregnable non-intellectualism. That's because I don't believe in my intellect like you do... and trust my emotions even less. Instead I trust objective reality to show me the way. While you may have fooled yourself with what you're epistemologically all about--I don't think so but don't care--not me. --Brant Perfectly understandable reaction, Brant. For it is inherent to each chosen view to regard the one who chose the other view as having deluded themselves. In a like manner, I regard your faith in the supremacy of your intellect to guide your actions as having missed an additional and vital ingredient... which is the ability to observe thought, not as the thinker, but in the objective moral light of Conscience which shines upon thought and reveals it for what it truly is. No matter which choice we each make... reality is the only final judge which wields the absolute power to render the final verdict upon each of our lives. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I hope you are aware, Greg, I'm not trying to get you to change your mind about anything. If it were just you and me having a conversation on these sundry items we would have gone onto other matters long ago--or simply stopped talking altogether. I know I could do business with you, for instance. No sweat about that sort of thing. I don't have many arguments going on here. I don't tend to engage people that way and when an argument starts it usually doesn't last long. I do a lot of recasting of others' propositions for illustrative purposes. Using differing perspectives can be helpful.--Branttry, try trying, to understand!he's a magic man . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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