PDS Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Unlike Greg, I am not a mind reader, but my guess (based upon Greg's other various pronouncements) would be that Greg is not a fan of the notion that Christ died for everybody--as opposed to a select few who may or may not have been predestined to saved, or damned.Your guess is wrong.Just knowing who is going to give themselves over to good and who is going to abandon themselves to evil doesn't impinge in the least upon our own freedom to choose.A Gift is just that... freely offered for anyone who wants it with no strings attached.So enjoy it or piss on it.It's your choice.GregGlad to hear that you are unequivocally a universalist, Greg. Universalism certainly qualifies as Good News. And, as the book Ellen linked to demonstrates, there is overwhelming scriptural support for that view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Unlike Greg, I am not a mind reader, but my guess (based upon Greg's other various pronouncements) would be that Greg is not a fan of the notion that Christ died for everybody--as opposed to a select few who may or may not have been predestined to saved, or damned. Your guess is wrong. Just knowing who is going to give themselves over to good and who is going to abandon themselves to evil doesn't impinge in the least upon our own freedom to choose. A Gift is just that... freely offered for anyone who wants it with no strings attached. So enjoy it or piss on it. It's your choice. Greg Glad to hear that you are unequivocally a universalist, Greg. Thanks, man. It's just common sense. Christianity makes sense. Universalism certainly qualifies as Good News. And, as the book Ellen linked to demonstrates, there is overwhelming scriptural support for that view. The reason there are so many different sects of Christianity is because of all the different interpretations of the Scriptures. the other day I heard Dennis Prager on the radio say that the differences within a religion are greater than the difference between religions, and he was absolutely right. There are universal moral principles that are not bound by just one religion and which are found in many religions. So I'm more interested in living by them, than on quibbling over religious dogma. So this is why I trust my own direct real life personal experience of the consequences of my own actions, and not someone else's effed up opinions in a book. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Here I though Jesus died so we could all watch porn! No one had to die for that. You always had that freedom. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Here I though Jesus died so we could all watch porn!No one had to die for that.You always had that freedom.Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Lol I was just joking around, thanks for the reply though.I know, I KNOWwwwwww I will get what I deserve....I am good with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Lol I was just joking around, thanks for the reply though. I know, I KNOWwwwwww I will get what I deserve.... I am good with that. Understanding that simple fact is what makes for a happy life. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Troy Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I AM a pretty happy dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I AM a pretty happy dude! I believe you, Jules... and it's because you're good with what you understand. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I AM a pretty happy dude!I believe you, Jules... and it's because you're good with what you understand.GregBELIEVE! BELIEVE IN JULES oops ME no, that's not right....hmmm...AHA! Got it!Believe in yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I AM a pretty happy dude! I believe you, Jules... and it's because you're good with what you understand. Greg BELIEVE! BELIEVE IN JULES oops ME no, that's not right....hmmm...AHA! Got it! Believe in yourself. There's a difference between believing that someone else is telling you the truth... and believing in someone else. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 There's a difference between believing that someone else is telling you the truth... and believing in someone else.GregThat was mostly joke. However, you raise an interesting point. Are you more apt to believe in someone else when you know he is telling the truth?A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 No one had to die for that.You always had that freedom.GregMy Mom found my magazines and that was that. I tried to buy a girlie magaine at the grocery when I was 12 and got laughed out of the store (which has since been torn down--good riddance!).--Brant"freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 That was mostly joke. However, you raise an interesting point. Are you more apt to believe in someone else when you know he is telling the truth? A... No. I don't believe in anyone. However, I do strive to trust the living light of Conscience to show me what's right and wrong in each moment... and not in my own intellect or emotions. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 That was mostly joke. However, you raise an interesting point. Are you more apt to believe in someone else when you know he is telling the truth?A...No. I don't believe in anyone. However, I do strive to trust the living light of Conscience to show me what's right and wrong in each moment... and not in my own intellect or emotions.GregYou do believe in a God which of course would exist outside a corporeal human, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 You do believe in a God which of course would exist outside a corporeal human, correct? No. I know God exists. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 You do believe in a God which of course would exist outside a corporeal human, correct?No.I know God exists.GregTo know this can only also mean you know everything.--Brantnothing to stop you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moralist Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 You do believe in a God which of course would exist outside a corporeal human, correct?No. I know God exists. Greg To know this can only also mean you know everything. --Brant nothing to stop you Not so, Brant. There is an infinite chasm between simply knowing that God exists, and knowing everything about God. By your own direct personal experience you know the Sun exists by seeing its light shining and feeling the warmth of it on your skin... ...and yet to this day scientists are still discovering new facts about the complexities of how the Sun operates. (X class flare) In a similar manner the existence of God can be experienced for yourself. The process of growth begins by learning to love what is good and true and right enough to actually do it. This involves choosing to act contrary to your thoughts and emotions whenever they are wrong. And that is accomplished first by becoming still, calm, and centered inside of yourself, and then you are able to become aware of the moral light of your Conscience which shines upon your thoughts and emotions revealing them for what they are. Then you are free to choose what to do. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Like I said, there's nothing to stop you. In this case you mix up science with mysticism and you can adduce enough mystical nonsense to make any point you feel like or "think" like as you claim more knowledge of Him or anything else if you will. A true scientist can believe in God if he keeps his mysticism in a box regarding all his professional endeavors. Doesn't work for a "Christian Objectivist." In that example one is mixing up a rational philosophy with basic irrationality. I suggest you need to keep your mysticism pure and, in honesty, simply call it "faith" as faith has a somewhat better ring to it being more culturally of the West than the East.--BrantI know you are prosletyzing--the only way to communicate and advocate a faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I know you are prosletyzing--the only way to communicate and advocate a faithBrant,I've never seen Greg try to convert anyone. That's what prosletyzing means, right? Converting people?I always see him say you'll get what you deserve.Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I always see him say you'll get what you deserve.MichaelMichael:Yes, which tends to disorient counter arguments.He also leads by example which is easy to accept.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I know you are prosletyzing--the only way to communicate and advocate a faithBrant,I've never seen Greg try to convert anyone. That's what prosletyzing means, right? Converting people?I always see him say you'll get what you deserve.MichaelOh he's good, Michael. He's very good. He's so good I had to call your attention to it. The rest is up to your cognition.--Brantheh, heh--I'm good too, I'm very good--so good I'm bad (as in "bad-ass") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I know you are prosletyzing--the only way to communicate and advocate a faithBrant,I've never seen Greg try to convert anyone. That's what prosletyzing means, right? Converting people?I always see him say you'll get what you deserve.MichaelOh he's good, Michael. He's very good. He's so good I had to call your attention to it. The rest is up to your cognition.--Brantheh, heh--I'm good too, I'm very good--so good I'm bad (as in "bad-ass")Kinda like a male Mae West? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Stuart Kelly Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I always see him say you'll get what you deserve.MichaelMichael:Yes, which tends to disorient counter arguments.He also leads by example which is easy to accept.A...Adam,I hadn't thought of that disorient part as pattern interrupt (which is the term I learned from studying NLP covert hypnosis). It sure is.But that doesn't have to be intentional manipulation. I've seen it as the story-part of the mind talking, not the logic part. And the pattern that gets interrupted is the logic. It's a little more complicated than this, but basically people are in a logic pattern and he repeats principles that apply to the story he lives.Gronnnk... Collision... Interruption...Say what?But nobody has a sign saying "This is logic-based" and "This is story-based" for each sentence when they talk, so it's easy for them to talk past each other when the differences are large.The reason I don't see a bogeyman (among other reasons) is I don't see a flock forming.As to leading by example, what's wrong with that? Except, once again, I don't see any leading going on. I just see a nice guy who believes certain things, repeats them (like people do with stories), and lives consistently by them.His metaphysics doesn't convince me, but I sure like the self-responsibility part. I believe we can share that and live with the differences. I certainly don't see much possibility for gaining converts among the OL crowd.And think of this. If he is seeking converts, he'll get exactly what he deserves. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brant Gaede Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I know you are prosletyzing--the only way to communicate and advocate a faithBrant,I've never seen Greg try to convert anyone. That's what prosletyzing means, right? Converting people?I always see him say you'll get what you deserve.MichaelOh he's good, Michael. He's very good. He's so good I had to call your attention to it. The rest is up to your cognition.--Brantheh, heh--I'm good too, I'm very good--so good I'm bad (as in "bad-ass")Kinda like a male Mae West? W.C Fields on Mae West: "A plumber's idea of Venus de Milo."--Brant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I always see him say you'll get what you deserve.MichaelMichael:Yes, which tends to disorient counter arguments.He also leads by example which is easy to accept.A...Adam,I hadn't thought of that disorient part as pattern interrupt (which is the term I learned from studying NLP covert hypnosis). It sure is.But that doesn't have to be intentional manipulation. I've seen it as the story-part of the mind talking, not the logic part. And the pattern that gets interrupted is the logic. It's a little more complicated than this, but basically people are in a logic pattern and he repeats principles that apply to the story he lives.Gronnnk... Collision... Interruption...Say what?But nobody has a sign saying "This is logic-based" and "This is story-based" for each sentence when they talk, so it's easy for them to talk past each other when the differences are large.The reason I don't see a bogeyman (among other reasons) is I don't see a flock forming.As to leading by example, what's wrong with that? Except, once again, I don't see any leading going on. I just see a nice guy who believes certain things, repeats them (like people do with stories), and lives consistently by them.His metaphysics doesn't convince me, but I sure like the self-responsibility part. I believe we can share that and live with the differences. I certainly don't see much possibility for gaining converts among the OL crowd.And think of this. If he is seeking converts, he'll get exactly what he deserves. MichaelMichael:Agreed. It is probably not intentional. At first I had my antennae up big time, which was one of the reasons that I kept up about his beliefs.Once he opened his hands and I saw no "blade sinister," I was completely comfrotable.His self reliance is a high positive on my Maslow list.Moreover, I firmly believe that leading by example is the best way, also the most difficult way, to motivate individuals and groups.I do not mean "leadiing" in the way we would normally view it, out front, waving bbanners and saying follow me!That is one style of leadership that works perfectly in certain settings.Pattern interruption is one of the key Sandler Selliing System protocols.A... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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