What is America doing in Iraq ? [ or Afghanistan ]

[anthony]

First,to give some context to what must seem an inflammatry,naive,or just ill-informed,question.

I personally felt close to the pain and anger that all Americans felt on that September day,and all the years since. Despite being South African,the attack was levelled at me,and mine. My freedom,my sense of the world,has been damaged. But this has been extensively and far more eloquently written about than I could.

I have been often accused by colleagues as being incredibly innocent when I argue that the U.S. went into Iraq,not just as a knee-jerk,hit back,reaction,but also out of altruism. A massive reprisal,but following in its wake a genuine desire to export democracy to a confused and backward country.

"You fool,it's the oil they're after" was the common response; and that got me seething. The fact that altruism is a value to such people,and that America was so completely misunderstood even when she was trying to 'do good',has frustrated the hell out of me. The fact that the cost to the American tax-payer of invasion and occupation,and worse,the fatalities of soldiers,completely escapes these cynics.

An other nation I am deeply interested in is Israel, and during the recent conflict, I had an article published locally defending its right to survive,and its desire for ongoing peace. I titled the article "An imbalance of Values".

There are parallels in the two situations - especially with the latest news coming from Pakistan and Afghanistan involving 'collateral damage' to Taliban civilians. I am no military or international affairs expert, but the essence of these conflicts seems to be Tribalism against Individualism ; the value of a single life, against pure contempt for all life.

How can such a war be winnable? And would it be worth it,if it were only a Pyrrhic victory?

[BaalChatzaf]

First,to give some context to what must seem an inflammatry,naive,or just ill-informed,question.

I personally felt close to the pain and anger that all Americans felt on that September day,and all the years since. Despite being South African,the attack was levelled at me,and mine. My freedom,my sense of the world,has been damaged. But this has been extensively and far more eloquently written about than I could.

I have been often accused by colleagues as being incredibly innocent when I argue that the U.S. went into Iraq,not just as a knee-jerk,hit back,reaction,but also out of altruism. A massive reprisal,but following in its wake a genuine desire to export democracy to a confused and backward country.

"You fool,it's the oil they're after" was the common response; and that got me seething. The fact that altruism is a value to such people,and that America was so completely misunderstood even when she was trying to 'do good',has frustrated the hell out of me. The fact that the cost to the American tax-payer of invasion and occupation,and worse,the fatalities of soldiers,completely escapes these cynics.

An other nation I am deeply interested in is Israel, and during the recent conflict, I had an article published locally defending its right to survive,and its desire for ongoing peace. I titled the article "An imbalance of Values".

There are parallels in the two situations - especially with the latest news coming from Pakistan and Afghanistan involving 'collateral damage' to Taliban civilians. I am no military or international affairs expert, but the essence of these conflicts seems to be Tribalism against Individualism ; the value of a single life, against pure contempt for all life.

How can such a war be winnable? And would it be worth it,if it were only a Pyrrhic victory?

And there is not a drop of oil to be had Afghanistan. Rudyard Kipling wrote these lines about Afghanistan where the Brits met grief and death:

When you lie wounded in Afghanistan's plains

And the women come out to cut up the remains,

roll onto your gun and blow out your brains,

and go to your God like a soldier.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Selene]

Ba'al:

Thanks never heard that voice. In the book Charlie Wilson' War you get a real healthy look at how difficult this war really is and unfortunately it has a serious potential of being generational.

Whynot: I want to thank you for seeing the incredible good in the nature of Americans.

The utter stupidity of the irrational marxist chant of a war for oil has not been even minimally established by the left, but most American HS and college students would poll high on that question.

The self hating American will assist in the destruction of this experiment in freedom.

Now here are the questions of the day... 1) Who was the only President who was sworn in by a Female Judge and what year?

2) Does this scenario sound familiar?

A Democratic President with a "mandate".

Announcing massive military aide and civilian advisers will be committed to this country in Asia.

Announcing a complete commitment to the defense of a country because it cannot be lost or the

enemy would be at our gates.

Adam