Does our President have a philosophy?

[HSFBunn]

Is there a connection between President Obama, and famous literary works on philosophy?

Two quotes from Obama are referenced below.

"It's because you have an obligation to yourself. Because our individual salvation depends on collective salvation. Because thinking only about yourself, fulfilling your immediate wants and needs, betrays a poverty of ambition." - Barak Obama, 2008

"The Poverty of Philosophy" written by Karl Marx (1847).

"John McCain and Sarah Palin they call this socialistic," Obama continued. "You know I don’t know when, when they decided they wanted to make a virtue out of selfishness." Barak Obama, 2008

“The Virtue of Selfishness” - written by Ayn Rand (1964).

The context of word usage appears to match the respective philosophical ideas of each author.

Obama is a successful politician and orator. Politicians craft their words with cautious deliberation. Relatively few individuals would be familiar with the writings of both Karl Marx, and Ayn Rand.

This begs the question, who is Obama speaking to and what is the message?

References:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/p...amfelsen/gGBPzl

[Selene]

Jonathan:

Welcome. Student, producer or running dog of the oppressive capitalist slave owners?

This is a great forum.

Adam

[syrakusos]

Good morning! I see that your alarm went off. We're serving coffee; you probably smelled it when you woke up.

Of course the President has a statist perspective founded on collectivism, which is based on altruism, which follows from mysticism. A fully-engaged dialectic discussion between Barak Obama and Sarah Palin would settle on very basic agreements. They disagree about higher-level details. (This assumes, of course, that you can actually find any content in anything Sarah Palin says.)

"It's because you have an obligation to yourself. Because our individual salvation depends on collective salvation. Because thinking only about yourself, fulfilling your immediate wants and needs, betrays a poverty of ambition." - Barak Obama, 2008

"The Poverty of Philosophy" written by Karl Marx (1847).

1. A Poverty of Reason: Sustainable Development and Economic Growth. Wilfred Beckerman. The Independent Institute, Oakland, 2003 reviewed at http://mises.org/misesreview_detail.aspx?control=259
   
2. Op-Ed Contributor: "A Poverty of the Mind," By ORLANDO PATTERSON. Published: March 26, 2006. Cambridge, Mass. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/opinion/26patterson.html
   
3. Poverty of Philosophy (Lyrics) http://www.asklyrics.com/display/Immortal_...rics/494490.htm
   

1. is an anti-Green book, as you might guess.

2. is an essay that says that the reason that young black males do poorly in school and at working is that they have accepted the coolness culture.

3. is a rapper's complaint about social injustice, Marxism in a vulgar key

If you want to experience it, it's on

, of course. Edited March 6, 2009 by Michael E. Marotta

[HSFBunn]

The lexicon of “The Poverty of..” has some common usage. Although most often from statist leaning writers, or as point of mockery with Obama’s critics. President Kennedy used the phrase in a speech.

It seems that “The Poverty of..” was originated in the rough translation of Marx’s book title from French to English.

Personally, I find Obama’s use of “The Poverty of..” as a signal to careful listeners that he is a “fellow traveler”, a clever use of semantic manipulation to claim himself a Marxist.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Jonathan,

Welcome to OL.

That was an interesting thought. It actually gave me a moment of rueful pleasure to contemplate it.

However, I am not sure that these rhetorical coincidences are anything more than a subconscious regurgitation of phrases from material our dear President has studied and/or discussed.

So far, I see President Obama as a pragmatic (but otherwise empty) opportunist who came in from the left. I see him more as a front man than as a prime mover—a front man who likes the power and the trappings of high office, but a front man nevertheless.

According to one newspaper account I read yesterday, he is already turning gray-haired, the speckles are already appearing.

Rather than actively pursuing evil (like establishing himself as a dictator, for instance), I am beginning to fear that he doesn't have a clue about what he is doing and is simply trying to align whatever might seem to work with the more lofty-sounding side of the platitudes he has preached along his career, in addition to trying to navigate the interests of the people who helped put him in power.

Since he is not a stupid man, I also suspect he knows he doesn't have a clue, he is starting to suspect what the consequences of a major error will be, he is starting to realize that he—the history-making first African-American President—will be blamed for a disaster and ultimately be seen as worse than President Warren Harding, and this is what is making him gray prematurely.

He was competent as a power climber. He is not so competent as a power wielder and I believe he knows he runs a serious risk of losing it all.

Michael

[anonrobt]

Rather than actively pursuing evil (like establishing himself as a dictator, for instance), I am beginning to fear that he doesn't have a clue about what he is doing and is simply trying to align whatever might seem to work with the more lofty-sounding side of the platitudes he has preached along his career, in addition to trying to navigate the interests of the people who helped put him in power.

In other words - Mr. Thompson?

[Selene]

Even a left wing liberal NY Times rat's testicles are starting to shrink in horror!

"We never thought we'd say this, but former Enron adviser Paul Krugman has a pretty good column in today's New York Times. It's a tough criticism of the Obama administration but, unlike Krugman's hundreds of anti-Bush columns, it is not a rant. Krugman is concerned that President Obama is not treating the crisis in America's financial institutions with sufficient urgency:

'Among people I talk to there's a growing sense of frustration, even panic, over Mr. Obama's failure to match his words with deeds. The reality is that when it comes to dealing with the banks, the Obama administration is dithering. Policy is stuck in a holding pattern. . . .

Why do officials keep offering plans that nobody else finds credible? Because somehow, top officials in the Obama administration and at the Federal Reserve have convinced themselves that troubled assets, often referred to these days as "toxic waste," are really worth much more than anyone is actually willing to pay for them--and that if these assets were properly priced, all our troubles would go away.'

"Krugman argues, somewhat counterintuitively, that the administration is inhibited by free-market ideology:"

'Officials still aren't willing to face the facts. They don't want to face up to the dire state of major financial institutions because it's very hard to rescue an essentially insolvent bank without, at least temporarily, taking it over. And temporary nationalization is still, apparently, considered unthinkable.'

Well at least we will all go off the cliff with a smirk since we at least will know why it happened.

Adam

[syrakusos]

However, I am not sure that these rhetorical coincidences are anything more than a subconscious regurgitation of phrases from material our dear President has studied and/or discussed.

Michael, he has speech writers. A president will craft his own thoughts and edit what is given him, but he has far more important things to worry about and many, many of them, at that. So, he has speech writers who know his inflections and nuances and who write like he talks. You cannot know whether what he says are the words from his own head or someone else's.

That said, I agree that there is a semiotic transmission, a metalanguage within a discursive space that gives privileged voice to shared realities. That is always true. Pres. Bush spoke to the right, of course. Gangs have their slangs.

It seems that “The Poverty of..” was originated in the rough translation of Marx’s book title from French to English.

Right. Proudhon wrote La Philosophie de la Misere and Marx replied with La Misere de la Philosophie. But I think you are stretching a point. If I said, "... a gathering of eagles..." would you take that as a call to resist the invader, the invader being symbolized by the eagles. The founders of our republic knew this. The "eagle" was added to American iconography with the Federal government, as a symbol of that conquest. Similarly, "Don't tread on me" -- what does that mean? Maybe you don't read that as being a threat from the devil, or understand the alternating red-and-white stripes of the flag as the flag of the hashish-smokers (assassins). I mean, some people would, like about 50 people. But symbols change meaning as people change. Sometimes it's purposeful, sometime ignorance is transmitted and spread.

Semiotics, hermeneutics, metalanguage.

I grant the premise about the President. Such is the nature of the office and the people who hold it.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Michael E. Marotta

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

In other words - Mr. Thompson?

Robert,

LOL...

That's about as perfect a fit as I have seen.

There is another fit with some really creepy parallels: Warren G. Harding.

Although President Harding was a Republican, he is like a conservative mirror of President Obama. Just the details change.

Here are some quotes from the Wikipedia article on Harding with my snarky comments in italics and brackets.

His political leanings were conservative, which enabled him to become the compromise choice at the 1920 Republican National Convention. During his presidential campaign, held in the aftermath of World War I, he promised a return to "normalcy".

[Yes we can...]

Harding signed peace treaties that built on the Treaty of Versailles (which formally ended World War I). He also led the way to world Naval disarmament at the Washington Naval Conference of 1921–22.

[Peace treaties built on sand while ignoring dictators in the wings? Disarmament?...]

Florence Harding, exhibiting her father's determination and business sense, turned the Marion Daily Star into a profitable business. She has been credited with helping Harding achieve more than he might have alone; some have speculated that she later pushed him all the way to the White House.

[How do, Michelle...]

As an influential newspaper publisher with a flair for public speaking, Harding was elected to the Ohio State Senate in 1899.

["Flair for public speaking"...]

He served in the Senate from 1915 until his inauguration as President on March 4, 1921, becoming the first sitting Senator to be elected President of the United States.

[straight from the Senate without completing term of office...]

Relatively unknown outside his own state, Harding was a true "dark horse" candidate, winning the Republican Party nomination due to the political machinations of his friends after the nominating convention had become deadlocked.

[That sounds familiar...]

Before receiving the nomination, he was asked whether there were any embarrassing episodes in his past that might be used against him. His formal education was limited, he had a longstanding affair with the wife of an old friend, and he was a social drinker in the time of Prohibition. However, Harding answered "No" and the Party moved to nominate him, only to discover later his relationship with Carrie Fulton Phillips.

[We already know about Ayers and a whole bunch of unsavory people. God knows what is still buried...]

Harding's "front porch campaign" during the late summer and fall of 1920 captured the imagination of the country. Not only was it the first campaign to be heavily covered by the press and to receive widespread newsreel coverage, but it was also the first modern campaign to use the power of Hollywood and Broadway stars, who travelled to Marion for photo opportunities with Harding and his wife.

[There is even a book out about the slobbering love affair of the media with President Obama...]

The campaign owed a great deal to Florence Harding, who played perhaps a more active role than any previous candidate's wife in a presidential race.

[How do, again, Michelle...]

The campaign also drew upon Harding's popularity with women. Considered handsome, Harding photographed well compared to Cox.

[President Obama's photos compared to McCain's...]

Immigrant groups who had made up an important part of the Democratic coalition such as the Germans and Irish also voted for Harding in the election in reaction to their perceived persecution by the Wilson administration during the war.

[President Obama got most all the fringe groups who cry "persecution," although this time they are crying wolf...]

During the campaign, rumors spread that Harding's great-great-grandfather was a West Indian black person and that other blacks might be found in his family tree.

[President Obama is a racial mix...]

He created the Bureau of the Budget, becoming the first president to take a role in federal expenditures.

[Heh...]

He also called for the abolition of lynching, but he did not want to make enemies in his own party and with the Democrats and did not fight for his program.

[Let's see how President Obama's strict stance against torture plays out...]

Upon winning the election, Harding appointed many of his old allies to prominent political positions. Known as the "Ohio Gang" (a term used by Charles Mee, Jr., in his book of the same name), some of the appointees used their new powers to rob the government. It is unclear how much, if anything, Harding himself knew about his friends' illicit activities.

[it sounds like President Obama took lessons from him in choosing staff and vetting...]

Historian Wyn Craig Wade, in his 1987 book The Fiery Cross, suggests that Harding had ties with the Ku Klux Klan, perhaps even having been inducted into the organization in a private White House ceremony. Evidence includes the taped testimony of one of the members of the alleged induction team, however beyond that it is scant at best and the theory is generally discounted.

[Hard-line left wing organizations, anyone?...]

I could go on and on. Obviously there were many differences, but this is way too many parallels for comfort. They are... er... ominous parallels...

Joking aside, this is actually weird..

Michael

[anonrobt]

In other words - Mr. Thompson?

Robert,

LOL...

That's about as perfect a fit as I have seen.

There is another fit with some really creepy parallels: Warren G. Harding.

Although President Harding was a Republican, he is like a conservative mirror of President Obama. Just the details change.

Here are some quotes from the Wikipedia article on Harding with my snarky comments in italics and brackets.

His political leanings were conservative, which enabled him to become the compromise choice at the 1920 Republican National Convention. During his presidential campaign, held in the aftermath of World War I, he promised a return to "normalcy".

[Yes we can...]

Harding signed peace treaties that built on the Treaty of Versailles (which formally ended World War I). He also led the way to world Naval disarmament at the Washington Naval Conference of 1921–22.

[Peace treaties built on sand while ignoring dictators in the wings? Disarmament?...]

Florence Harding, exhibiting her father's determination and business sense, turned the Marion Daily Star into a profitable business. She has been credited with helping Harding achieve more than he might have alone; some have speculated that she later pushed him all the way to the White House.

[How do, Michelle...]

As an influential newspaper publisher with a flair for public speaking, Harding was elected to the Ohio State Senate in 1899.

["Flair for public speaking"...]

He served in the Senate from 1915 until his inauguration as President on March 4, 1921, becoming the first sitting Senator to be elected President of the United States.

[straight from the Senate without completing term of office...]

Relatively unknown outside his own state, Harding was a true "dark horse" candidate, winning the Republican Party nomination due to the political machinations of his friends after the nominating convention had become deadlocked.

[That sounds familiar...]

Before receiving the nomination, he was asked whether there were any embarrassing episodes in his past that might be used against him. His formal education was limited, he had a longstanding affair with the wife of an old friend, and he was a social drinker in the time of Prohibition. However, Harding answered "No" and the Party moved to nominate him, only to discover later his relationship with Carrie Fulton Phillips.

[We already know about Ayers and a whole bunch of unsavory people. God knows what is still buried...]

Harding's "front porch campaign" during the late summer and fall of 1920 captured the imagination of the country. Not only was it the first campaign to be heavily covered by the press and to receive widespread newsreel coverage, but it was also the first modern campaign to use the power of Hollywood and Broadway stars, who travelled to Marion for photo opportunities with Harding and his wife.

[There is even a book out about the slobbering love affair of the media with President Obama...]

The campaign owed a great deal to Florence Harding, who played perhaps a more active role than any previous candidate's wife in a presidential race.

[How do, again, Michelle...]

The campaign also drew upon Harding's popularity with women. Considered handsome, Harding photographed well compared to Cox.

[President Obama's photos compared to McCain's...]

Immigrant groups who had made up an important part of the Democratic coalition such as the Germans and Irish also voted for Harding in the election in reaction to their perceived persecution by the Wilson administration during the war.

[President Obama got most all the fringe groups who cry "persecution," although this time they are crying wolf...]

During the campaign, rumors spread that Harding's great-great-grandfather was a West Indian black person and that other blacks might be found in his family tree.

[President Obama is a racial mix...]

He created the Bureau of the Budget, becoming the first president to take a role in federal expenditures.

[Heh...]

He also called for the abolition of lynching, but he did not want to make enemies in his own party and with the Democrats and did not fight for his program.

[Let's see how President Obama's strict stance against torture plays out...]

Upon winning the election, Harding appointed many of his old allies to prominent political positions. Known as the "Ohio Gang" (a term used by Charles Mee, Jr., in his book of the same name), some of the appointees used their new powers to rob the government. It is unclear how much, if anything, Harding himself knew about his friends' illicit activities.

[it sounds like President Obama took lessons from him in choosing staff and vetting...]

Historian Wyn Craig Wade, in his 1987 book The Fiery Cross, suggests that Harding had ties with the Ku Klux Klan, perhaps even having been inducted into the organization in a private White House ceremony. Evidence includes the taped testimony of one of the members of the alleged induction team, however beyond that it is scant at best and the theory is generally discounted.

[Hard-line left wing organizations, anyone?...]

I could go on and on. Obviously there were many differences, but this is way too many parallels for comfort. They are... er... ominous parallels...

Joking aside, this is actually weird..

Michael

Interesting, to be sure...

[Chris Grieb]

While I wouldn't comment on the parallels between Obama and Harding, there was one thing that Harding was very good. The country had gone through a very severe economic downturn with the end of World War I. Harding with the advice of his Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon did nothing and got it done to lead to the prosperity of the 20th. In 1929 Mellon tried to convince President Hoover to pursue the same policies and was turned down.

This is the biggest reason why I think the low place of Warren Harding among US Presidents is undeserved.