Is It Time to Shrug?

[Brant Gaede]

Oh, government gets bigger and bigger and more and more degenerative. Finally it all collapses. After Obama, if we get him, will come a fascist reaction and eventually the U.S. will end up like Argentina. After the parasites kill off the hosts they'll die off too. The trick is not to be a host. Viscerily I still like the Daddy Warbucks template. An international man if there ever was one. Much more dynamic and efficacious than John Galt, tinkering with his motor in Galt's Gultch. JG didn't start being heroic until the bad guys got their hands on him. Francisco had it all over Galt the human God. The problem with being a man-worshipper is the man invariably defaults into being a man. Then things, in real life, can get complicated if not delusional. Personally, I'm a human being admirer, most particularly of competence and ability. Integrity is much more elusive for me for it devolves into morality and morality is something you use to control yourself and others and others are trying to do the same to you within the common social dynamic. Usually they are just trying to rip you off with their altruistic allusions and political facts and taxes even sending you to jail or the slavery of national service or defrauding you into indebitness. That is why the economy is going to hell: The slaves are waking up and walking away from their financial "obligations." Why not? The government is sending their money--taxes and inflation--into the banks' back-door while the banks are taking their money in mortgage payments on over-valued properties the banks lent freely for in the first place. You see, the banks have no integrity, only smiley faces at the door. The politicians have none either, but they smile too. Nobody better than Obama. But they expect you to have what they lack and keep the racket going. But if you lose your job you'll soon stop paying off your credit card debt with its 23% interest rate. The world-wide empire of debt is being destroyed and that destruction has only just begun. That destruction will be propelled by both necessity and increasing anger--and eventually into war, I'd bet, if the political interference with freedom continues--and I don't mean that little thing going on in Iraq.

--Brant

Brant, if you really mean all this, I'll argue with you. But why do I doubt that you mean it?

Barbara,

The problem is your use of "all this." I have put an incredible amount of information into a small post each piece of which can be analyzed and argued from different perspectives. The whole point of my rant is to make people think and ask questions and to ask me to explain myself in this or that particular. The gist of it all, however, appertains to morality, integrity, heroism and can people really make a difference against gross cultural inertia? This all comes out of gross feelings of alienation from a political process about to put a dangerous, unseasoned, narcissistic incompetent in charge of the country. If he wins the children will have taken over, but the children cannot defend and protect the United States.

(There is some Devil's Advocate there.)

--Brant

Edited November 3, 2008 by Brant Gaede

[Reidy]

What I've heard talk of is not a fairness doctrine for the net but "net neutrality" which would ban websites from buying higher priorities or better connections. Obama supports http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9806707-7.html) it and McCain opposes it (http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/6/3/224720.shtml). You can imagine where that would lead.

[Alfonso Jones]

Oh, government gets bigger and bigger and more and more degenerative. Finally it all collapses. After Obama, if we get him, will come a fascist reaction and eventually the U.S. will end up like Argentina. After the parasites kill off the hosts they'll die off too. The trick is not to be a host. Viscerily I still like the Daddy Warbucks template. An international man if there ever was one. Much more dynamic and efficacious than John Galt, tinkering with his motor in Galt's Gultch. JG didn't start being heroic until the bad guys got their hands on him. Francisco had it all over Galt the human God. The problem with being a man-worshipper is the man invariably defaults into being a man. Then things, in real life, can get complicated if not delusional. Personally, I'm a human being admirer, most particularly of competence and ability. Integrity is much more elusive for me for it devolves into morality and morality is something you use to control yourself and others and others are trying to do the same to you within the common social dynamic. Usually they are just trying to rip you off with their altruistic allusions and political facts and taxes even sending you to jail or the slavery of national service or defrauding you into indebitness. That is why the economy is going to hell: The slaves are waking up and walking away from their financial "obligations." Why not? The government is sending their money--taxes and inflation--into the banks' back-door while the banks are taking their money in mortgage payments on over-valued properties the banks lent freely for in the first place. You see, the banks have no integrity, only smiley faces at the door. The politicians have none either, but they smile too. Nobody better than Obama. But they expect you to have what they lack and keep the racket going. But if you lose your job you'll soon stop paying off your credit card debt with its 23% interest rate. The world-wide empire of debt is being destroyed and that destruction has only just begun. That destruction will be propelled by both necessity and increasing anger--and eventually into war, I'd bet, if the political interference with freedom continues--and I don't mean that little thing going on in Iraq.

--Brant

Brant, if you really mean all this, I'll argue with you. But why do I doubt that you mean it?

Barbara,

The problem is your use of "all this." I have put an incredible amount of information into a small post each piece of which can be analyzed and argued from different perspectives. The whole point of my rant is to make people think and ask questions and to ask me to explain myself in this or that particular. The gist of it all, however, appertains to morality, integrity, heroism and can people really make a difference against gross cultural inertia? This all comes out of gross feelings of alienation from a political process about to put a dangerous, unseasoned, narcissistic incompetent in charge of the country. If he wins the children will have taken over, but the children cannot defend and potect the United States.

--Brant

Brant -

So for clarity, can you repost with just the portion you take seriously? The portion you mean? The entire post is pretty short, so it shouldn't take long to delete the parts you didn't mean.

Bill P (Alfonso)

Edited November 3, 2008 by Bill P

[kiaer.ts]

What I've heard talk of is not a fairness doctrine for the net but "net neutrality" which would ban websites from buying higher priorities or better connections. Obama supports http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9806707-7.html) it and McCain opposes it (http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/6/3/224720.shtml). You can imagine where that would lead.

Net Neutrality would put the government in control of the internet the way Putin controls the flow of petroleum to Europe. The FCC would be in a position to approve or deny carriers the ability to buy bandwidth freely. It will be done in the name of giving individual users better bandwidth, but at the expense of slower downloads from sites not deemed worthy of premium access. Popular sites will become beholden to regulators to get more bandwidth. Imagine the FCC telling YouTube they can't keep hosting political vidoes if they want to a`qualify for better speeds under the new whatever doctrine.

As it is now, the same people who brought you the telecom meltdown want to force carriers like Verizon to "share" their fiber optic networks. This will be one of the "reforms" of a filibuster-proof Senate.

[Brant Gaede]

Oh, government gets bigger and bigger and more and more degenerative. Finally it all collapses. After Obama, if we get him, will come a fascist reaction and eventually the U.S. will end up like Argentina. After the parasites kill off the hosts they'll die off too. The trick is not to be a host. Viscerily I still like the Daddy Warbucks template. An international man if there ever was one. Much more dynamic and efficacious than John Galt, tinkering with his motor in Galt's Gultch. JG didn't start being heroic until the bad guys got their hands on him. Francisco had it all over Galt the human God. The problem with being a man-worshipper is the man invariably defaults into being a man. Then things, in real life, can get complicated if not delusional. Personally, I'm a human being admirer, most particularly of competence and ability. Integrity is much more elusive for me for it devolves into morality and morality is something you use to control yourself and others and others are trying to do the same to you within the common social dynamic. Usually they are just trying to rip you off with their altruistic allusions and political facts and taxes even sending you to jail or the slavery of national service or defrauding you into indebitness. That is why the economy is going to hell: The slaves are waking up and walking away from their financial "obligations." Why not? The government is sending their money--taxes and inflation--into the banks' back-door while the banks are taking their money in mortgage payments on over-valued properties the banks lent freely for in the first place. You see, the banks have no integrity, only smiley faces at the door. The politicians have none either, but they smile too. Nobody better than Obama. But they expect you to have what they lack and keep the racket going. But if you lose your job you'll soon stop paying off your credit card debt with its 23% interest rate. The world-wide empire of debt is being destroyed and that destruction has only just begun. That destruction will be propelled by both necessity and increasing anger--and eventually into war, I'd bet, if the political interference with freedom continues--and I don't mean that little thing going on in Iraq.

--Brant

Brant, if you really mean all this, I'll argue with you. But why do I doubt that you mean it?

Barbara,

The problem is your use of "all this." I have put an incredible amount of information into a small post each piece of which can be analyzed and argued from different perspectives. The whole point of my rant is to make people think and ask questions and to ask me to explain myself in this or that particular. The gist of it all, however, appertains to morality, integrity, heroism and can people really make a difference against gross cultural inertia? This all comes out of gross feelings of alienation from a political process about to put a dangerous, unseasoned, narcissistic incompetent in charge of the country. If he wins the children will have taken over, but the children cannot defend and potect the United States.

--Brant

Brant -

So for clarity, can you repost with just the portion you take seriously? The portion you mean? The entire post is pretty short, so it shouldn't take long to delete the parts you didn't mean.

Bill P (Alfonso)

Sigh. The whole is serious. I could mean any portion. I'm not sure about a lot of things. These highlighted issues are all important. I keep descending the cliff of absolutism, but my rope remains firmly attached to it. The parts I probably don't mean at all relate to one's financial obligations. I really can't counsel not paying off one's debts, but the business cycle is demanding debt be retired or destroyed so economically we get a bottom that can be worked off of. Unfortunately, terrible damage is being done world-wide fighting the inevitability of this, which will mean inflation, stagflation and an overall lower standard of living in a process that will take us a decade to get through and then the economy will be trapped by its aging demographics.

--Brant

Edited November 3, 2008 by Brant Gaede

[Newberry]

Adam: "I frankly believe that we will dodge another bullet this Tuesday, but the marxist pressure will continue at all levels. It does not appear promising Barbara."

You may very well be right, and in certain moods I think you are. Certainly, it does not appear promising. But notice that Oama did considerable damage to his campaign -- and perhaps gave the election to McCain -- when he spoke of "redistributing wealth," clearly revealing his Marxist credentials. Well, we shall see. But it's still possible to fight and to make one's voice heard. And as long as that is so -- to quote Rand -- "We can't give up the earth to all those others."

Barbara

I have been out of the loop, out of the country, and off blithely painting landscapes...but after being back in NY, this last week, the mood of anxiety is palatable. I sympathize with so many people--the financial value of their assets declining, hope for a bright future dimming--gosh I know fine artists that have kids (I don't know how they will continue as artists).

But I would like a share with you all an attitude that never fails to inspire me with the joy of living. Too many people, and artists I know especially, want the end result, nirvana, the finished painting, Galt's Gulch, etc., immediately. They tend to ride rough shod over their work, or activity, pushing to reach the "end." Though having an idea of the goal or the end is essential, it is the process of doing, that brings an immediate paradise to earth in the here and now. Really if you have that, you are living in Galt's Gulch.

Cheers,

Michael

Edited November 3, 2008 by Newberry

[Paul Mawdsley]

I think things are just starting to get interesting. As things start to reach points of crisis realities become clear. The truth about people's position come into focus. As the truth comes into focus we get to see beneath the covers and get a chance to make sense of the world anew. This is not a time to disappear. This is a time to point to the truth while it is exposed for all to see. The truth about how mistaken the vision of human nature, ethics and politics, that has shaped our political landscapes, is being exposed. We are seeing the ugly mess that has resulted from a distorted vision of reality. This mess will continue to grow to the point where it will break down. As it breaks down the causes will need to be identified clearly and marketed to the public at large. And a new vision will need to emerge.

Yes...It's just starting to get interesting...

Paul

Amen, brother, amen!

It's amazing how similar the Obama candidacy is to the McGovern candidacy in 1972. Despite all the superficial differences, it all seems to boil down to a doubt as to whether they would protect us from our foreign enemies, and a fear that they will redistribute us into poverty and economic disaster.

When you have a chance, re-read Ayn Rand's monthly letters from 1971 and 1972 (not the book of her private correspondence, but her newsletter). Amazing stuff. Still vital and true today.

reb

Roger, I've never read these letters. There is lot I want to make time for. Life seems to keep getting more, not less, complicated all the time. How do I get my hands on these monthly letters? Do I have to go through ARI?

Paul

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Paul,

You can order The Ayn Rand Letter here for 45 smackaroonies.

Michael

[kiaer.ts]

NO! You can buy the Ayn Rand Letter used at abebooks.com. Don't confuse this with the letters of Ayn Rand. There are many sellers at various prices. You should also buy The Objectivist and The Objectivist Newsletter. The Objectivist is by far the best investment. The Newsletter is a bit slim, and The Ayn Rand Letter is more pessimistic and less academic.

The Ayn Rand Letter. Volumes I - IV 1971-1976

Rand, Ayn Bookseller: Aldersgate Books Inc.

(Niagara Falls, NY, U.S.A.)

Bookseller Rating:

Price: US$ 26.25

[Convert Currency]

Quantity: 1 Shipping within U.S.A.:

US$ 4.20

[Rates & Speeds]

Book Description: Palo Alto, CA: Palo Alto Service. 1979. First Printing (stated). Large format blue cloth hardcover with gilt stamping. No DJ. 389pp. Facsimile signature of Ayn Rand. Turquoise endpapers. VG. Slight corner bump. Pages clean. Binding sound. Private library blind stamp to title page. Bookseller Inventory # 16305

[Bookseller & Payment Information] [More Books from this Seller] [Ask Bookseller a Question]

[Paul Mawdsley]

Now that's service. Thanks for the rapid feedback.

Paul

[kiaer.ts]

Here's the cheapest listing I found, click on this link to go there directly:

THE AYN RAND LETTER: VOLUMES I-IV, 1971-1976.

None given. Bookseller: Second Story Books, ABAA

(Rockville, MD, U.S.A.)

Bookseller Rating:

Price: US$ 18.75

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Quantity: 1 Shipping within U.S.A.:

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Book Description: Palo Alto Book Service, 1979., Palo Alto, CA:, 1979. na. 4to, VG+/none, blue spine with gilt title, light shelfwear, head and foot of spine bumped. Philosophy. Bookseller Inventory # 7-39-667067

[Bookseller & Payment Information] [More Books from this Seller] [Ask Bookseller a Question]

[Greybird]

It's time for — recalling the estimable Jon Stewart signing off "The Daily Show" each weeknight with a wacko media moment from that day — a moment of Zen:

The map is not the territory.

For "map," read — or, more precisely, internalize, if you're that foolish — the plot of Atlas Shrugged, or any other work of fiction. For "territory," read: Moral terrain in the Real World that one must traverse.

[...] I wasn't impressed with [Holzer] chasing Jane Fonda around with that treason rationalization of his. There was no declaration of war against North Vietnam. LBJ was responsible for millions of deaths in SE Asia, especially Vietnamese and Cambodians. [Holzer] should have written a book about that, the real de facto treason.

Unarguable, I'd say, and I'm glad someone finally brought up this particular category of moral atrocity, wherein McCain (and his superiors) were integral parts.

I was stupefied at Holzer's obsession with tracing Fonda's supposed treason. It was the largest piece of context-dropping I'd ever seen among those who even remotely qualified as supporters of Rand or her philosophy. It also was, in the sense of choosing windmills to tilt at, spectacularly pointless. Fonda has been denounced from the moment she made her statements. It's not as if the matter was ever swept under the media rug, then or since.

Holzer mapped a territory of actions that had almost no real-world consequence. I found it hard, for many years, to grok such obsessions on the part of supposedly rational, realist, romantic-fiction-loving O-symps.

When I forget, though, I simply keep my eyes open for religious bigots, currently infesting nearly every streetcorner here in California. (Though, blessedly, only for two more days on this go-round, with their being vigorously opposed.)

Edited November 3, 2008 by Greybird

[Chris Grieb]

I think things are just starting to get interesting. As things start to reach points of crisis realities become clear. The truth about people's position come into focus. As the truth comes into focus we get to see beneath the covers and get a chance to make sense of the world anew. This is not a time to disappear. This is a time to point to the truth while it is exposed for all to see. The truth about how mistaken the vision of human nature, ethics and politics, that has shaped our political landscapes, is being exposed. We are seeing the ugly mess that has resulted from a distorted vision of reality. This mess will continue to grow to the point where it will break down. As it breaks down the causes will need to be identified clearly and marketed to the public at large. And a new vision will need to emerge.

Yes...It's just starting to get interesting...

Paul

Amen, brother, amen!

It's amazing how similar the Obama candidacy is to the McGovern candidacy in 1972. Despite all the superficial differences, it all seems to boil down to a doubt as to whether they would protect us from our foreign enemies, and a fear that they will redistribute us into poverty and economic disaster.

When you have a chance, re-read Ayn Rand's monthly letters from 1971 and 1972 (not the book of her private correspondence, but her newsletter). Amazing stuff. Still vital and true today.

reb

Roger, I've never read these letters. There is lot I want to make time for. Life seems to keep getting more, not less, complicated all the time. How do I get my hands on these monthly letters? Do I have to go through ARI?

Paul

Paul; ARI is now the only outlet selling the Objectivist periodicals. I recently purchased them for a little more than $100. I would also suggest seeing if there are any available on Amazon..

[Brant Gaede]

It's time for — recalling the estimable Jon Stewart signing off "The Daily Show" each weeknight with a wacko media moment from that day — a moment of Zen:

The map is not the territory.

For "map," read — or, more precisely, internalize, if you're that foolish — the plot of Atlas Shrugged, or any other work of fiction. For "territory," read: Moral terrain in the Real World that one must traverse.

[...] I wasn't impressed with [Holzer] chasing Jane Fonda around with that treason rationalization of his. There was no declaration of war against North Vietnam. LBJ was responsible for millions of deaths in SE Asia, especially Vietnamese and Cambodians. [Holzer] should have written a book about that, the real de facto treason.

Unarguable, I'd say, and I'm glad someone finally brought up this particular category of moral atrocity, wherein McCain (and his superiors) were integral parts.

Well, I was too. I had no problem going to Vietnam and fighting the communists. To me they were wanta-be mass murderers. But I got educated pronto about half-assed wars. When my plane left the country in 1967 I was so exhilarated!

--Brant

Edited November 3, 2008 by Brant Gaede

[kiaer.ts]

I repeat, (see post 34) all the periodicals, The Objectivist Newsletter, The Objectivist, and The Ayn Rand Letter are available used but in excellent condition at abebooks.com. I have purchased The Objectivist there several times as gifts and was fully satisfied.

[Chris Grieb]

Ted; I should have looked more.

[kiaer.ts]

I wasn't looking for an apology - I just want people to be aware of thier options! BTW, I bought a bound reprint of The Objectivist (Vol 5-10) for $35, but couldn't find a listing for an available copy. They are selling a complete collection of the individual issues, for $725...

I usually browse at Amazon, and the buy cheaper at abebooks. Also, Powell's books of Portland Oregon (whose stock is listed at abebooks) is the largest used book seller in the US and ships addt'l books at 99c. Some sellers charge full shipping for each book.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

At this moment, McCain just lost Ohio and I don't see a recovery.

Far from being the time to shrug, it is now time, more than ever, to roll up our shirtsleeves.

There is no John Galt out there organizing a strike. If we don't do it, if we don't get it right here on earth and here in America, it just won't get done.

Get ready to get to work, folks. There's a lot to do and we have a humongous financial problem coming.

In every setback, there is an opportunity. It's going to take a very clear vision and courage to see what it actually is and act on it.

In my opinion, Obama has not won qua Obama. Bush was rejected in spades.

Michael

[Selene]

Michael:

Well said Michael. Even if Ohio turns out to be wrong, the margins in NC 8,000 vote difference out of 3.5 million cast and N. Mexico gone there is no path left.

I just do not have your optimism.

Adam

[Alfonso Jones]

At this moment, McCain just lost Ohio and I don't see a recovery.

Far from being the time to shrug, it is now time, more than ever, to roll up our shirtsleeves.

Agreed on both - the incredibly low probability of avoiding Obama being elected, and the fact that now is the time to work ever harder.

The goal of the Obama camp will be to attempt to blame what goes wrong on Bush, on "selfishness," on Capitalism. (As if we had been practicing Capitalism lately instead of a horribly mixed economy! If I hear the failure of Fannie and Freddie touted one more time as an example of the failure of a FREE ECONOMY it is going to be difficult to restrain myself from screaming at the speaker.)

Our path will be to make things clear. To help them see that we have been on a pretty consistent path for many years now, and Obama is just a "leap ahead" on the path - not a turnaround from the path we have been on.

Ironic - even as at least some other countries (China, for instance) are moving toward increasingly free economies - for the pragmatic reasons that such economies work, the USA is moving farther and farther away from a free economy.

Bill P (Alfonso) (very sad, but not giving up)

[Barbara Branden]

A wise comment from Robert Bidinotto:

"A brief post-election comment

posted 11/04/08

"There are a great many things I want to say in the wake of the Democrat victory this evening, but my comments may have to wait a bit. I've been nursing a nasty bug for the past two weeks, which has been and cutting heavily into my work schedule.

"Since Barack Obama and the Democratic left are going to be with us for a while, until I've bounced back from this illness, I'll appear here only briefly.

"Meanwhile, let me say that if there is only one good thing to emerge from this election, it is this: The outcome completely lays to rest one of the insulting claims against the American people by anti-Americans -- that the United States is a racist, bigoted nation, unwilling to judge people except by the color of their skin. Well, name for me any other predominantly white Western nation that would have selected a black man as its leader in a free and open election. America does retain a core individualism, demonstrated this time not by its politics, but by its willingness to transcend issues such as race in order to judge individuals as individuals. Even if I believe it was a grave misjudgment, that color-blindedness is worthy of celebration.

"Let us hope that during the next four years, Barack Obama can also do a bit of transcending: namely, to transcend his leftist ideological pedigree and associations in order to judge ideas and issues with the same independence of spirit with which the American people have judged him."

Barbara

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I listened to McCain's speech and Obama's speech tonight.

I know there is gloom and doom in the Objectivist-libertarian world right now, but what I heard impressed me enough to feel optimistic. I do not mean that all will be good now. But I do believe that things are better than they appear to be.

On McCain, I am highly impressed with his character, as I have stated several times. Even in defeat, he placed his chosen values first and did what he thought best for the country. I do not see his campaign as anything but heroic. With the world in the state it is in right now and America's overwhelming disenchantment with Bush, any other Republican would have been squashed. It's a tribute to McCain's character that he came out as well as he did.

I am very hopeful that Sarah Palin will be groomed for the future and it was good to hear McCain hint at this.

On Obama, I find a glimmer of optimism in his personal ambition of all things. His method of political ascendancy has been to get next to a person or group, get endorsed, then betray that person or the values of that group on moving to a higher rung where he reinvents himself ideologically.

What I heard tonight is that he clearly imagines himself as receiving the torch of liberty handed down through the ages. I believe that he will be far more interested in molding himself into a great American President than in adhering to any ideological party line that borught him there. Interestingly, his vanity and lack of ideological principles, but focus on common sense, gives me hope that he will grow into something halfway decent in office. Since he will need princples to fulfill the self-image I perceived, I believe he will turn to the traditional principles of the Founding Fathers to make sure he gets it right. Let's wait and see.

One thing is for sure. The economic disaster is coming and he will have to face it. I don't give the mainstream press 2 years before they start crucifying him.

I have a personal feeling in all this. In addition to being spiritually exhausted, I am profoundly relieved that the Bush style crony politics is coming to an end. When I contemplate that idea, I get an an astonished feeling that I did not realize how much this has weighed on my soul, and it will be gone soon.

Maybe what is coming will be worse, or maybe it will be better. I believe it is too early to say with any degree of certainty. But it feels really good at this point in time to know that it will be different.

Michael

[Brant Gaede]

It won't be different, Michael. It's now 1932 all over again only worse. Obama will have his own "Brain Trust" only it will be brain-busted. Just like Roosevelt's. My own grandfather never got over his infatuation with FDR. One reason he wrote a six-volume biography of James Madison was he was taken to task for quoting Madison in Congressional testimony supporting Roosevelt's attempt to pack the Supreme Court. Madison was the "Father of the Constitution." (Vol. 3.) Irving Brant may have been right, after all. Before there was a Republic there was a Confederation of States. Might the world not be a better place now if that had been left be? I don't know. But Madison wrought the country we are living in. It's the world of Hamilton, not Jefferson.

--Brant

[Chris Grieb]

Thank you Barbara for posting Bidinotto's comments. His point about no other Western nation electing a person of color to the highest office in the country is an important one.

Michael; Let us Obama transcends much of his past.

Brant; I think you need several hugs. Lighten up!

[Dragonfly]

Thank you Barbara for posting Bidinotto's comments. His point about no other Western nation electing a person of color to the highest office in the country is an important one.

This is insulting bullshit. It suggests that the fact that other countries don't have a black president or premier is due to some racist prejudice. That is in itself an example of racist thinking.