Randy Girls

[kgregglv]

Interesting article:

Randy Girls – Adolescent females love Ayn Rand – wonder why?

By Amy Benfer

http://www.incharacter.org/article.php?article=93

[Danneskjold]

Apparently no one is autonomous.

Edit: Oh ya, you guys are all naive and delusional.

Edit 2: And I'm normal, which is even worse. But apparently it's normal to think that.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Jeff Kremer

[BAMF]

Her sex scenes may be hot *blush*, but her ideas are even hotter.

P.S. There is such a thing as a pro-anorexia site?

[Charles R. Anderson]

It is an interesting article.

In fact, most people who read Ayn Rand's novels do read them as superficially as the writer of this article did and they commonly do react pretty much the way she did to the novels and Ayn Rand as a result. Because Rand writes such a good story, many people read her novels with as much thought as they put into reading a romance novel.

I tend to read almost everything I read slowly and with frequent stops to think about what I have read and to evaluate it in terms of everything else I know. But few people read this way. In fact, I often had to put the brakes on myself in a way I would not normally have to do when reading Ayn Rand's novels. There was an awful lot to think about, but the story was a natural page-burner so it was hard to stop and think as much as I usually would. I know people who stayed up for 48 hours straight and read through all of Atlas Shrugged. Well, you cannot possibly give it the thought it needs in 48 hours.

So, yes, many people read it as simply having an affinity for their feelings as teenagers that adults do not know what they are talking about. Rand novels feed that sense of rebellion and desire for independence. That they have enduring and critical ideas is lost on most readers.

It is also common to assume that Ayn Rand's ideas must lead to some of the confusion that she had in living life. This is akin to assuming that a scientist who believes in god will never do any good science. It is, of course, much easier put down a love and respect for the hero as creator and independent thinker by pointing out that Frank O'Connor was not the equivalent of Howard Roark or John Galt, than it is to address the contributions that heroes have and do make to civilization. This writer makes many of these intellectual shortcuts, but they are telling shortcuts for most people, even most of those who have read Rand's novels.

[Danneskjold]

I have a hard time, given the station of Dagny as it was, believing that Rand that that woman was supposed to worship every part of man. Seems to me that she thought that was only the case in a sexual sense. As far as that goes, it matters little to none what Frank O'Connor's status was as a money-maker.

Yes, there are pro-anorexia sites. Never occured to the author of the article that the girl whose name was Dominique Francon (or was it Dagny?) might have actually appreciated the idea Dominique for a reason other than her physical form. For instance, I joined this forum under the name Danneskjold at the start. I have no aspirations to be a thief. That's about the connection the author made.

Also, people read things wrong is all that the person managed to convince me of.

What pisses me off about Rand critiques? When they start off their essay talking about how you either love or hate it in some attempt to look like you're presenting a balanced look at the work. Every single on you read starts off saying that.

I've never seen an author get attacked for worse reasons that I've seen Rand get attacked for. One of the worst is because it's based too much on her past experience. Made me want to say, "Yes, in fact, I think we should discount ALL things that are based on past experience." I can hardly fathom a more brain-dead reason to dislike a philosophy.

Of course, this article started off with the same crap "Hardly a more controversial author...either love or hate her work..." as every other article ever written against Rand. Then, it finished off quite nicely by saying that the Strikers in Atlas Shrugged were all whiners who were complaining because they were kept from price gouging (in reference to the law freezing ALL PRICES AND EXPENDITURES).

Yes, Rand fucked up the end of her life. No, I don't care. I don't follow the woman, I just look at her roadmap.

[Dragonfly]

Of course, this article started off with the same crap "Hardly a more controversial author...either love or hate her work..." as every other article ever written against Rand.

You're right that it's nonsense to say that you either love or hate her work, but this is not only said by (some, certainly not all) critics of Rand but by her loyal followers as well. How often haven't I heard an Objectivist saying in answer to some well-argued factual criticism, that the person who makes that criticism is a "Rand-hater". It's just like Jesus: He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad..

[Danneskjold]

Very true.

[BAMF]

Danneskjold wasn't a thief.

In the words of Mitch Hedberg: "I was in a heavy metal band once. People either loved us, or they hated us...or they thought we were okay."

"Then, it finished off quite nicely by saying that the Strikers in Atlas Shrugged were all whiners who were complaining because they were kept from price gouging (in reference to the law freezing ALL PRICES AND EXPENDITURES)."

Maybe I wasn't reading the same article. Or maybe I skimmed too much.

[Victor Pross]

I have a hard time, given the station of Dagny as it was, believing that Rand that that woman was supposed to worship every part of man. Seems to me that she thought that was only the case in a sexual sense. As far as that goes, it matters little to none what Frank O'Connor's status was as a money-maker.

Yes, there are pro-anorexia sites. Never occured to the author of the article that the girl whose name was Dominique Francon (or was it Dagny?) might have actually appreciated the idea Dominique for a reason other than her physical form. For instance, I joined this forum under the name Danneskjold at the start. I have no aspirations to be a thief. That's about the connection the author made.

Also, people read things wrong is all that the person managed to convince me of.

What pisses me off about Rand critiques? When they start off their essay talking about how you either love or hate it in some attempt to look like you're presenting a balanced look at the work. Every single on you read starts off saying that.

I've never seen an author get attacked for worse reasons that I've seen Rand get attacked for. One of the worst is because it's based too much on her past experience. Made me want to say, "Yes, in fact, I think we should discount ALL things that are based on past experience." I can hardly fathom a more brain-dead reason to dislike a philosophy.

Of course, this article started off with the same crap "Hardly a more controversial author...either love or hate her work..." as every other article ever written against Rand. Then, it finished off quite nicely by saying that the Strikers in Atlas Shrugged were all whiners who were complaining because they were kept from price gouging (in reference to the law freezing ALL PRICES AND EXPENDITURES).

Yes, Rand fucked up the end of her life. No, I don't care. I don't follow the woman, I just look at her roadmap.

Jeff,

How did Rand fuck up the end of her life?

[BAMF]

^ By dying, duh!

[Laure]

Yeah, really Jeff, how did Rand fuck up the end of her life? By dying? By having her husband die on her and not going right out and bagging a replacement? I don't think many people go out on a high note, it's the nature of old age.

[Danneskjold]

From about everything I've heard, she died with very few friends amongst the original collective. Supposing she drove them away, well then I'd say that is fucking up.

[Victor Pross]

From about everything I've heard, she died with very few friends amongst the original collective. Supposing she drove them away, well then I'd say that is fucking up.

Well, this is open to question. Tell me, where did you get this information?

[Danneskjold]

Dad, every article I've ever read about Rand, Nathaniel Branden's website (see the story about Rand and his wife Devers[?]). Actually, I hated that story because it seemed like he was railing on her for no reason. It's one thing to tell things how it is and talk about the breakup from your point of view, but that just seemed uncalled for. Oh well.

[Victor Pross]

Dad, every article I've ever read about Rand, Nathaniel Branden's website (see the story about Rand and his wife Devers[?]). Actually, I hated that story because it seemed like he was railing on her for no reason. It's one thing to tell things how it is and talk about the breakup from your point of view, but that just seemed uncalled for. Oh well.

Dad? LOL.

Well, son, (hee-hee) nobody wants to discover that their hero has feet of clay, but it can be wise to see who is shaping that clay and what their motivation might be. There are tons of articles that are extremely hostile to Rand, and I really don’t see how you would expect other wise: she was a controversial philosopher who took on the establishment and stepped on a lot of toes—toes that needed to be stepped on. Bottom line: It’s easy to libel the dead, because they can’t rise from the dead and counter it --and neither can they act in a new way to contract the detractor’s claims.

Jeff, if you feel any intense admiration for Rand that is now being hindered ---stop it. Rand deserves the respect and admiration of the world. If you are curious about the woman behind the philosopher and artist, I urge you to read “The Letters of Ayn Rand”. After all, her own words might be relevant in letting us know what kind of a person she was. Watch the philosophy in action.

-V-

Edited February 20, 2007 by Victor Pross

[Danneskjold]

I never cared. She didn't formulate her philosophy at the time in question.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Jeff Kremer

[galtgulch]

Kenneth R Gregg,

Thanks for your reference. My wife and I got a real kick when we explored a link within your article.

here is the link:http://www.eviltwincomics.com/action/store-apgs1.html

Plan to buy a copy.

galt

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Bottom line: It’s easy to libel the dead, because they can’t rise from the dead and counter it --and neither can they act in a new way to contract the detractor’s claims.

Victor,

Speaking of this, you should see the libel Valliant committed with Patrecia, Murry Rothbard and some dead others in PARC.

Jeff,

Rand did not fuck up the end of her life. She achieved a huge pinnacle in her life, the completion of life's work, writing Atlas Shrugged, in addition to other major works. She was loved deeply by two men, one who left her and another who stayed on until the end. How many people can say that about themselves?

If she was not as happy in her personal relationships as she could have been and gradually lost her friends as she aged because she was overly-cantankerous (and what old person isn't cantankerous to some extent?), she did have the satisfaction of knowing what she achieved. Nobody could ever take that from her.

I strive to be able to die so happy on that level.

Incidentally, Branden bashers normally present a very weak-willed Rand to the world, one who was extremely vulnerable to being manipulated by others. If their version is to be believed (and I do not for a minute believe it), there is no reason to suppose that she was not equally weak-willed in being manipulated by the group of sycophants around her at the end of her life.

Michael

[Danneskjold]

Ok, I got ya.

[Danneskjold]

Just realize how ridiculous it was to say off-hand that my dad told me Rand wasn't at her best at the end of her life. My dad read Judgment Day which is how he says he came to that conclusion. I'm going to read it after I finish several other reading projects.

[BAMF]

Read My Years With Ayn Rand, the updated version. Actually, read them both. And read The Passion of Ayn Rand...and read...and read...and read.

Yeah, I LMAO when I read "dad..." I thought, "Do you cite daddy in your school papers?"

[Danneskjold]

Well, I cite him and my uncle on stuff about Global Warming (my dad wrote an article in a magazine a while back, my uncle makes satellites that collect atmosphere data).

[Judith]

Actually, I don't think Jeff is that far off. Rand alienated just about all of her long-time friends except for Leonard Piekoff -- even the Blumenthals. She pretty much died alone and unhappy. Most people don't do that. She dug herself into a hole by surrounding herself with people who didn't or wouldn't reflect back to her a realistic vision of herself. Whenever anyone tried to disagree with her, she cut that person off. So she died alone and out of touch with reality.

Judith

[Laure]

Judith, did you know her personally? If you didn't, I don't think you can claim to know how many friends she had. She could have had lots of friends that we've never heard of.

And what do you mean by "a realistic vision of herself"? Her vision of herself was unrealistic how?

Edited February 21, 2007 by Laure

[Judith]

Judith, did you know her personally? If you didn't, I don't think you can claim to know how many friends she had. She could have had lots of friends that we've never heard of.

And what do you mean by "a realistic vision of herself"? Her vision of herself was unrealistic how?

I am, of course, basing my conclusions on Barbara's biography. I am assuming it to be true in its basic facts.

As far as her vision of herself being realistic, one of the valuable things about friends is that we get to bounce our ideas off of them. They provide us with valuable feedback. If, instead, we surround ourselves with sycophants, we can really go off into left field and no one ever reins us in. Obviously I'm not saying that reality is determined by majority vote; I am, however, saying that one who refuses to consider what others say and who cuts one's self off from those who disagree with one and won't associate with them is descending into an alternate reality.

Judith