75th. Anniv. Pearl Harbor Attack

[Backlighting]

4 battleships sunk 4 battleships damaged 2 other ships sunk[nb 2] 3 cruisers damaged[nb 3] 3 destroyers damaged 3 other ships damaged 188 aircraft destroyed 159[3] aircraft damaged 2,403 killed 1,178 wounded[4][5]

4 midget submarines sunk 1 midget submarine grounded 29 aircraft destroyed 64 killed 1 sailor captured[6] source: Wikipedia

[BaalChatzaf]

10 hours ago, Backlighting said:

4 battleships sunk 4 battleships damaged 2 other ships sunk[nb 2] 3 cruisers damaged[nb 3] 3 destroyers damaged 3 other ships damaged 188 aircraft destroyed 159[3] aircraft damaged 2,403 killed 1,178 wounded[4][5]

4 midget submarines sunk 1 midget submarine grounded 29 aircraft destroyed 64 killed 1 sailor captured[6] source: Wikipedia

Six months later --- revenge.   The Battle of Midway.  Our naval air forces sunk four fleet carriers,  four of the very carriers that attacked Pear Harbor.  Three of the carriers were wrecked in a ten minute interval.  From the wiki article:

By the time the battle ended, 3,057 Japanese had died. Casualties aboard the four carriers were: Akagi: 267; Kaga: 811; Hiryu: 392; Soryu: 711 (including Captain Yanagimoto, who chose to remain on board); a total of 2,181.^[136] The heavy cruisers Mikuma (sunk; 700 casualties) and Mogami (badly damaged; 92) accounted for another 792 deaths.^[137]

In addition, the destroyers Arashio (bombed; 35) and Asashio (strafed by aircraft; 21) were both damaged during the air attacks which sank Mikuma and caused further damage to Mogami. Floatplanes were lost from the cruisers Chikuma (3) and Tone (2). Dead aboard the destroyers Tanikaze (11), Arashi (1), Kazagumo (1) and the fleet oiler Akebono Maru (10) made up the remaining 23 casualties.^{[nb 5]}

At the end of the battle, the U.S. lost the carrier Yorktown and a destroyer. 307 Americans had been killed.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway

 

It was a better day than Dec 7, 1941

[Backlighting]

 

[RobinReborn]

Can we discuss FDR's knowledge of Japanese aggression and the USS Panay?

[BaalChatzaf]

4 hours ago, RobinReborn said:

Can we discuss FDR's knowledge of Japanese aggression and the USS Panay?

There is a canard  bandied about that FDR knew the details of the Pearl Harbor Attack  and kept the carriers at sea.

1. The operative code JN25 had not been fully broken around Nov-Dec  1941. Only the diplomatic  Purple Code had been broken.  There is very little that could have suggest the Pearl Harbor attack.

2. FDR   was a traditional  Navy man (he was, at one time secretary of the Navy).  He was a battleship thinker   Very few people in the world  understood the potential of the carrier.  Isoruku Yamamoto was one of those people.  FDR  was not.   If he was going to save any ships,  it would have been the battleships.

3. There is no hard evidence  that  FDR scheme, knowing an attack was coming,  keeping the carriers safe and sacrificing the less useful ships just to get the U.S. into a war. And in any case FDR was hot to fight in Europe aiding great Britain.   

Here is the basic truth.  The Japanese caught us bare ass and flat footed in their attack on Pearl Harbor.  The U.S. military  has never since then been as unprepared as they were back in 1941. 

Unfortunately our domestic   intelligence bureaus were too busy  in rivalries and empire building to share data so we were caught bare ass and flatfooted on 9/11/2001.  

[Brant Gaede]

Of course FDR didn't know Japan was going to attack Pearl Harbor, but we had been waging severe economic war against them including an oil embargo. One war led to the other.

It's generally agreed that Pearl Harbor was tactical genius and a strategic disaster of and by the warlords who ruled Japan. As for their "victory," they hit the wrong targets instead of the submarine and oil storage facilities. Not launching a third strike left Pearl Harbor available for near-future US naval operations.

All the battleships except Arizona and Oklahoma were returned to service. They were used to devastate the Japanese Southern Force in the battle of Leyte Gulf three years later.

--Brant

[RobinReborn]

Interesting... nobody has commented on the USS Panay incident, perhaps you aren't familiar with it:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Panay_incident

 

Given that, it seems pretty incompetent for the US to not be prepared for Japanese aggression in Hawaii.