The is no Objectve NOW.

[Ellen Stuttle]

On January 11, 2017 at 8:48 PM, moralist said:

In answer to your question...

"For every temptation there is a way of escape."

--Bible

I take that to mean that you get "the government you deserve" by tweaking to suit.

Good luck continuing to fly under the radar.  I mean that, even though you'll credit "a higher moral imperative" instead of your on-the-fringes obscurity.

Ellen

[Ellen Stuttle]

On January 10, 2017 at 10:00 AM, wolfdevoon said:

[Rand's] eulogy given by a homosexual [...].

 

On January 10, 2017 at 10:07 AM, BaalChatzaf said:

Who said the eulogy???

 

On January 10, 2017 at 10:08 AM, wolfdevoon said:

David Kelley

http://atlassociety.org/objectivism/atlas-university/new-to-ayn-rand/launchpad-blog/3940-if-by-rudyard-kipling

What led you to the conclusion that David Kelley is a homosexual?  (And did he tell his wife?)

Ellen

[moralist]

3 hours ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

I take that to mean that you get "the government you deserve" by tweaking to suit.

Good luck continuing to fly under the radar.  I mean that, even though you'll credit "a higher moral imperative" instead of your on-the-fringes obscurity.

Ellen

You're getting the government you deserve, Ellen. It is the end product of your life long needy relationship to it.

And I'm also getting the government I deserve, which is a completely different end product of a completely different relationship to yours. Totally different relationships are a natural result of each of us living by totally different values.

The reason two individuals can be living in the same country, and yet can have two completely different personal experiences of government is due to the fact that you and I and your government all answer to exactly the same higher moral law.

You chose to throw your lot in with your government in exchange for the feelings of security it offered to you... while my allegiance went with higher moral law which does not answer to your government. And that is how by answering to the same higher moral law that your government answers to I'm set free from having to answer to your government.

This is something, for all of your liberal government education, you will never understand, Ellen.

By your own free choice... this is "Galt's Gulch" American freedom you will never taste.

 

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

43 minutes ago, moralist said:

You're getting the government you deserve, Ellen. It is the end product of your life long needy relationship to it.

And I'm also getting the government I deserve, which is a completely different end product of a completely different relationship to yours. Totally different relationships are a natural result of each of us living by totally different values.

The reason two individuals can be living in the same country, and yet can have two completely different personal experiences of government is due to the fact that you and I and your government all answer to exactly the same higher moral law.

You chose to throw your lot in with your government in exchange for the feelings of security it offered to you... while my allegiance went with higher moral law which does not answer to your government. And that is how by answering to the same higher moral law that your government answers to I'm set free from having to answer to your government.

This is something, for all of your liberal government education, you will never understand, Ellen.

By your own free choice... this is "Galt's Gulch" American freedom you will never taste.

Greg

The subjective valuing of government or government is all in your mind.

--Brant

what a comfort

[Wolf DeVoon]

4 hours ago, Ellen Stuttle said:

What led you to the conclusion that David Kelley is a homosexual?  (And did he tell his wife?)

Ellen

I withdraw the remark.

[moralist]

1 hour ago, Brant Gaede said:

The subjective valuing of government or government is all in your mind.

The objective value of how, by answering to the same higher moral law that government answers to, frees me from having to answer to the government, is all in my life.

 

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

8 hours ago, wolfdevoon said:

I withdraw the remark.

But why did you make it?

You aren't saying it's wrong only you don't care to defend it leaving it hanging meaning it's now an attempted smear--that is, a smear.

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

7 hours ago, moralist said:

The objective value of how, by answering to the same higher moral law that government answers to, frees me from having to answer to the government, is all in my life.

Greg

When you get that atomistic it's all ideological. You have no arguments only asseverations that others have to figure our and accept or discard for their own reasons, true or not, good or not. No arguments means you can't argue and don't. It's just "Look at me, look at me!"

--Brant

needs lots of refining

[Wolf DeVoon]

2 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

But why did you make it?

You aren't saying it's wrong only you don't care to defend it leaving it hanging meaning it's now an attempted smear--that is, a smear.

--Brant

Okay, it's wrong. I can be wrong. I don't think I am, but others are better informed. I'm wrong about a lot of things.

[moralist]

3 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

 You have no arguments only asseverations that others have to figure our and accept or discard for their own reasons, true or not, good or not.

Exactly. It's not my job to try to argue. That's the job of objective reality. I chose simply to state my view and demonstrate how it works in my own life.

Everyone here has already chosen how they are living, and only the objective reality of them getting what they deserve for their choice could ever possess the absolute power to convince them to change.

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

1 hour ago, wolfdevoon said:

Okay, it's wrong. I can be wrong. I don't think I am, but others are better informed. I'm wrong about a lot of things.

So am I, but I've no perjorative feelings toward homosexuals because they are homosexuals or use homosexuality for ad hominem arguments. My own sexuality is a confused mish-mash, but I only get synergy from a woman--one plus one equals three--and I get it just from being around them. This is basic. Mothers are much more important to children than fathers, not to say dads aren't important too, though. That's why psychotherapists are continually dealing with mommy this and mommy that with adult clients who have yet to grow up.

Homosexuality is the human default and homosexuality is imitative of heterosexuality. There is a lot of homosexual envy of heterosexuality but little of the converse. And if not envy regret and blaming. Fortunately many if not most are happily self-accepting of who and what they are and live happy productive lives and are culturally enriching, especially if the dominant culture accepts them and embraces them--finds a good place for them and protects them.

Jews too are special people--for their brains and knowing how to live on earth--and deserve special protective consideration therefore by who surrounds them. Unfortunately if it's not America it's not elsewhere, especially the Middle East. 

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

4 minutes ago, moralist said:

Exactly. It's not my job to try to argue. That's the job of objective reality. I chose simply to state my view and demonstrate how it works in my own life.

Everyone here has already chosen how they are living, and only the objective reality of them getting what they deserve for their choice could ever possess the absolute power to convince them to change.

Greg

They have to provide a chain of abstract reasoning that you do not. I accept that for you don't pretend too. If anybody else here knows this they haven't indicated any appreciation I'm aware of.

--Brant

[moralist]

18 minutes ago, Brant Gaede said:

They have to provide a chain of abstract reasoning you do not. I accept that for you don't pretend too. If anybody else here knows this they haven't indicated any appreciation I'm aware of.

--Brant

Exactly, Brant.

I don't need to try to convince anyone of anything when everyone including me is already getting exactly what they deserve for how they chose to live.

The objective reality of your own life supplys ALL of the reasoning you will EVER need to make your own decision for yourself. Whatever you chose has absolutely nothing to do with me and my choice.

This is what it really means to step up and take your place as an independent sovereign autonomous individual American citizen.

Isn't this what Ayn Rand advocated?

 And if people don't grow up and find the balls to be responsible for their own life... 

...the government they created from their own failure to govern themselves will NEVER give it to them.

 

Greg

[Wolf DeVoon]

46 minutes ago, moralist said:

Isn't this what Ayn Rand advocated?

Maybe I'm mistaken. I think she was in favor of platinum dresses heated by the fireplace and smashing up museum pieces.

[Wolf DeVoon]

1 hour ago, Brant Gaede said:

So am I, but I've no perjorative feelings toward homosexuals because they are homosexuals or use homosexuality for ad hominem arguments. My own sexuality is a confused mish-mash, but I only get synergy from a woman--one plus one equals three--and I get it just from being around them. This is basic. Mothers are much more important to children than fathers, not to say dads aren't important too, though. That's why psychotherapists are continually dealing with mommy this and mommy that with adult clients who have yet to grow up.

Homosexuality is the human default and homosexuality is imitative of heterosexuality. There is a lot of homosexual envy of heterosexuality but little of the converse. And if not envy regret and blaming. Fortunately many if not most are happily self-accepting of who and what they are and live happy productive lives and are culturally enriching, especially if the dominant culture accepts them and embraces them--finds a good place for them and protects them.

Jews too are special people--for their brains and knowing how to live on earth--and deserve special protective consideration therefore by who surrounds them. Unfortunately if it's not America it's not elsewhere, especially the Middle East. 

--Brant

Noted. Jews and gays, Hollywood in a nutshell, protected. Yes, it grinds, an old personal grudge.

First I find myself envying MSK's grace, and now yours. Rats.

[william.scherk]

14 hours ago, moralist said:

You chose to throw your lot in with your government in exchange for the feelings of security it offered to you

Yeah, Ellen.   Greg has spoken. 

Mind you, he knows sweet fuck all about your life and has obviously not read your many well-argued statements against government on a plethora of issues. 

Greg has given this same boilerplate fantasy whenever challenged -- the most recent irrational outburst being the slag of Bob Kolker as a life-long government-slave -- despite having zero evidence whatsoever.

A moral man would apologize for mischaracterization, or for being needlessly nasty and insulting.  But this is Objectivist Living and anything goes.

13 hours ago, moralist said:

The objective value of how, by answering to the same higher moral law that government answers to, frees me from having to answer to the government, is all in my life.

When the county/state property tax assessment makes its way to your door, does that go directly into the "I don't have to answer to the government" file? 

Edited January 15, 2017 by william.scherk
Added feminized government lady bits

[Brant Gaede]

1 hour ago, moralist said:

Exactly, Brant.

I don't need to try to convince anyone of anything when everyone including me is already getting exactly what they deserve for how they chose to live.

The objective reality of your own life supplys ALL of the reasoning you will EVER need to make your own decision for yourself. Whatever you chose has absolutely nothing to do with me and my choice.

This is what it really means to step up and take your place as an independent sovereign autonomous individual American citizen.

Isn't this what Ayn Rand advocated?

 And if people don't grow up and find the balls to be responsible for their own life... 

...the government they created from their own failure to govern themselves will NEVER give it to them.

Greg

Good enough for your atomistic individualism, but not enough for others. It wasn't enough for Ayn Rand.

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

1 hour ago, william.scherk said:

Yeah, Ellen.   Greg has spoken. 

Mind you, he knows sweet fuck all about your life and has obviously not read your many well-argued statements against government on a plethora of issues. 

Greg has given this same boilerplate fantasy whenever challenged -- the most recent irrational outburst being the slag of Bob Kolker as a life-long government-slave -- despite having zero evidence whatsoever.

A moral man would apologize for mischaracterization, or for being needlessly nasty and insulting.  But this is Objectivist Living and anything goes.

When the county/state property tax assessment makes its way to your door, does that go directly into the "I don't have to answer to the government" file? 

He rationalizes government in his life away and hits people with generalized or generic ad hominems. He's an ideologue in the sense a preacher is one. Bob Kolker is too, except he does much better out of his science context and doesn't attack people. Both both Bob and Greg think(?) philosophy--I think--is a Black Hole even though, in contradiction, Bob tells us about this and that philosopher and this and that philosophy--sort of. I think his favorite is David Hume. His real ostensible favorite is peer-reviewed scientific literature, but is purblind to how much of that can be protecting turf.

--Brant

[moralist]

1 hour ago, wolfdevoon said:

Maybe I'm mistaken. I think she was in favor of platinum dresses heated by the fireplace and smashing up museum pieces.

Wolf... both you and I have the results we deserve in our lives from what we each have learned by reading Ayn Rands words.

 

Greg

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

6 hours ago, Brant Gaede said:

 

15 hours ago, wolfdevoon said:

I withdraw the remark.

But why did you make it?

You aren't saying it's wrong only you don't care to defend it leaving it hanging meaning it's now an attempted smear--that is, a smear.

--Brant

Brant,

I don't want to get too far into gossip (heh  ), but I have felt something off in O-Land re sexuality.

In the part surrounding David Kelley, I can't say and don't want to make affirmations like Wolf did, but I do recall the sense of incongruity I felt when I went to a couple of TAS events and struck up a kind of friendship with Pink Snow of the punk rock band Erocktica. Pink was hired the few times I went as some kind of assistant to David (or his staff, I don't recall exactly).

She was a bombshell of a woman whose fame came from a band that openly celebrated porn through punk rock. I was going to try to see if I could get her in touch with some people I knew in Brazil who handled tours.

Unfortunately, she had a heart attack in 2012 and passed away. 

I think the reason I liked talking to her was because we didn't talk about sex. (Seriously.)  

But, man, was it weird seeing a woman like that in a venue like that.

What the hell, I love quirky.

 

I'm just mentioning this because I don't think Wolf's instincts came from a vacuum. There is something unconventional about sex in O-Land. Too many failed marriages. Also, lots of seriously uptight people mixed with others who give me an underlying feeling of a pressure cooker on high flame about to blow in a hidden backroom with the door closed and locked tight.

 

Michael

[moralist]

On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 0:46 PM, william.scherk said:

Yeah, Ellen.   Greg has spoken. 

Mind you, he knows sweet fuck all about your life and has obviously not read your many well-argued statements against government on a plethora of issues. 

...and in prances William like clockwork.

Ellen's protestations against her government are the logical result of her own slavish hate/need relationship to it. That child/parent relationship naturally causes her pain so she squeals without noticing that the pain is self inflicted by her own need of her government. She possesses unbending religious faith in the absolute power of her god of bureaucracy that only a lifelong "step and fetch it" public union employee could have. 

Because I have no such child/parent relationship with her government like she has, her government hasn't the hold over me that it has over her. Because she's a slave of her bureaucracy it's impossible for her to believe that everyone else isn't a slave like she is...

...but some others aren't slaves.

Quote

When the county/state property tax assessment makes its way to your door, does that go directly into the "I don't have to answer to the government" file? 

William... I LOVE paying my property taxes!

Because I acted as our own real estate developer and general building contractor, the home my wife and I built has never been sold... so the property tax assessment remains at the developer's wholesale value. For the last 15 years since we finished building we have been living in our home for a tiny fraction of the cost of renting. Our property tax runs $190 a month on a $900+k home... and it cannot revert to a current market assement unless it is sold.

Being a bureaucrat like Ellen is... you share her clinically blind faith in the absolute power of your bureaucracy. This is why you keep bringing up examples of its power over you, believing that I'm a slave of your government just like you are....

...but you have absolutely no idea of the rewards of doing what's morally right. There are countless blessings for honoring God by living according to His moral law.

The Bible says: "For every temptation there is a way of escape."

Being a secularist you think that's just silly religious crap... and so it will never work for you.

By acting in harmony with Divine moral law, I enjoy freedom from answering to the government in the same ways that you (and Ellen) have to answer to it...

...because your government answers to exactly the same Divine moral law that I do.

 

 

Greg

 

 

 

[Brant Gaede]

And in comes Greg . . . 

--Brant

like a delayed action humor bomb

deductive psycologises to the micro max but, what the heck, Rand did it to the macro

division of labor

[moralist]

Yup, Brant.

My attention is on the micro because there's where my personal responsibility is, and also where I have the most personal power.

I also don't watch any TV news... because it's only about macro stuff I can't do anything about and for which I'm not personally responsible.

Greg

[william.scherk]

11 hours ago, moralist said:

[Ellen] possesses unbending religious faith in the absolute power of her god of bureaucracy that only a lifelong "step and fetch it" public union employee could have. 

Nope. This is so far from the Ellen Stuttle we know ... that your only motive for this bullshit is likely malice.  Your unwarranted abuse shows zero appreciation of Ellen as an individual and assigns her to an imaginary team. This is what disgusts me -- your inability to evaluate opinions outside a fantasy league.

11 hours ago, moralist said:

Being a bureaucrat like Ellen is... you share her clinically blind faith in the absolute power of your bureaucracy. This is why you keep bringing up examples of its power over you, believing that I'm a slave of your government just like you are....

This is all complete bullshit. The point of mentioning your property taxe notice was to stick a pin in your ludicrous boast that you successfully evade the government's claims on you. When the government says "pay your property taxes, bitch"  you pay them, you do not disregard the notice. 

That is the point; your arguments rest on a fantasy.

Edited January 18, 2017 by william.scherk

[BaalChatzaf]

17 minutes ago, william.scherk said:

Nope. This is so far from the Ellen Stuttle we know ... that your only motive for this bullshit is likely malice.  Your unwarranted abuse shows zero appreciation of Ellen as an individual and assigns her to an imaginary team. This is what disgusts me -- your inability to evaluate opinions outside a fantasy league.

This is all complete bullshit. The point of mentioning your property taxe notice was to stick a pin in your ludicrous boast that you successfully evade the government's claims on you. When the government says "pay your property taxes, bitch"  you pay them, you do not disregard the notice. 

That is the point; your arguments rest on a fantasy.

Our buddy Moralist  thinks his customers pay his property tax.  But it is his signature on the check made out to the government.  He also pays his registration fee for his motor vehicle.  The idea that he is totally independent of the government has a river running through it --- De Nile.