ISLAM TAKING OVER EUROPE ! Sharia law soon in Europe


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I question your balance on this range of issues, William. While there are those who are alarmist, obversely I find you constantly leaning to denialism on Muslim matters. As I believe was borne out, for example, I argued a time ago that the truth of no-go zones in France lay somewhere in the middle - while you resisted the reports as false, I recall. Snopes isn't my authority either. I look and listen, as I have always done, to many sources, sometimes Muslims themselves. I'll put my 40+ years of induction about the Arab nature (as complex as it is) against your Google searches. You levelled "prejudiced, bigotry" at me, among others, which I don't take lightly.

What I have seen over all is your lack of even-handedness. All faiths and people of faith must be treated objectively, by what they preach and especially what they, or some, actually do - and don't do.

It would appear that like many in the West, you are quite a naif. The perception is that there are two types of Muslim: a. the peace-loving citizen. b. the murderous, fanatical Islamist. The first decries the second, without qualification, and we call him "moderate" (which for the peaceful individual should be insulting in its low expectation, I'd think).

All logic and observation defies this simplistic identification. There is clearly also the largest portion, a middle ground of Muslims, broadly those who seem to adopt a wait-and-see approach. At their one extreme, there are those who emote and vilify behind the scenes, some raise money for Islamist causes, and who generally despise the West, Israel and the USA in particular. In the middle I think, are the great number who rather revel in the fact that Islam has been finally acknowledged by the world (even if fearfully). These are probably a minority in North America. But I'm indicating the 100's of millions in Middle Eastern, African and Asian countries. This is the bulk who don't condemn killings too strongly. Often saying, we don't approve, this is a religion of peace - but... ("they shouldn't have insulted the prophet"etc.) The but-ers.

Europe can't be ruled out entirely of this break down. There are there, and will be more in future, those who become disaffected by unemployment, social depression, 'immoral' secularism and prejudice (etc) they find in EU nations. And how many do assimilate now, is no indicator of what the future generations, their children, will do.

I don't know how aware you are of what power - and the prospect of power- can do to people. Especially when masses of them feel they've been disrespected, ignored and abused for so long by an all-powerful West. These are not people who can forgive and forget and just get on with living, they tend to long memories of old enmity, hubris and vengeful rhetoric. They don't take up weapons, at least.

If you are going to remain credible to me, I think you should take a broader, less partial look at what social impact Islam is having in Europe and project onwards. To use your nomenclature - spotty, shitty and reasonable - do you believe the "shitty" will become more shitty, or more "reasonable"? Given the excesses of Koranic teachings, which way will many turn when life gets tougher?

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Tony, when and if you start a thread that covers your limited concerns immediately above -- a "broader, less partial look at what social impact Islam is having in Europe," I am likely to join you in discussion. It would be interesting to many folk on OL, I am sure, even if we go over old ground and familiar positions. At the moment, I don't feel like moving off the topic here: the video introduced above by Jerry about the "breeding like flies" ...

My concerns in this thread are clear: I believe that the video is a piece of alarmist propaganda, with very little basis in reality -- least of all demographic. I have laid out my objections in the best form I am able.

I will leave your other oblique comments about me and my faults where they lie. They do not intersect with my concerns -- or with my careful answers to your opinions inline (though I note the continuing blank-out and evasion of my actual words).

If you want me to engage with your comments, I would like you first to quote me and take issue with what I write, my actual words, as posted in this thread. Since you allow yourself to elaborate your earlier insults with fresher insults -- rather than engage with my arguments -- let's just say I am not interested. You missed the mark. Ho hum. That's OL life.

At no time have I accused you of bigotry or prejudice, as you claim: "You [William] levelled "prejudiced, bigotry" at me [Tony], among others, which I don't take lightly."

Here is what I wrote on this page: "As for bigotry and ignorance, anyone can be bigoted in some small way -- me, you, Adam, Jerry, each of us. The seeking of reliable knowledge is a continuous effort in minds that I respect. Such application of reason aims to dispel innocent ignorance and find the best objective evidence about a given controversy."

Here is what I wrote about Jerry: that he had written "nasty racialist claptrap." It may have escaped your notice, but MSK too was disgusted by the claptrap. He asked of Jerry: "Jerry, are you talking about human beings or a subhuman collective like bigots do?"

-- I hate when Reason takes a backseat to bigotry on Objectivist Living. As I wrote earlier, "Ignorance, prejudice and bigotry are not what I associate with Objectivist Living."

Anyhow, looking forward to the thread "William is a naif Re: Islam" in which you reference troubling comments and my lack of religious even-handedness ... we can have a real rip-snorter.

To start that off in your mind, I will probably start my response like this: I despise almost every last thing about Islam, all its sects, all its leaders (with the exception of Ismailis, Druze, Ahmadiyyas, and Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi). I despise and suspect all mullahs, all Imams, and almost every single Muslim voice that preaches to the West. I despise the likes of Tariq Ali.

(about the only devout Muslims I don't suspect and in-my-heart disdain are the few like my Twitter-friend Mohammed Ghilan. He loves to labour over 'true' and 'perfect' Islam from his home in Victoria BC. I treat it as the same affliction suffered by any putative religious scholar.)

Edited by william.scherk
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