Coulter Surprised Me

[Brant Gaede]

I envy you the time you have to listen to this.

--Brant

[anthony]

I envy you the time you have to listen to this.

--Brant

Haven't you seen it?

[Brant Gaede]

I envy you the time you have to listen to this.

--Brant

Haven't you seen it?

Nope. You did say "listen." Four hours or two?

I've give it a peek.

--Brant

in and out in 55 seconds: why care about race?--there are blacks that do what I can't as surgeons and mathematicians and there are whites as dumb as a rock and as for myself I think I can do insightful and creative things I don't see others doing, so let the collectivists have this collectivist thing of theirs and judge individuals for what they are and do because the answer to collectivism is individualism, not participating as equal partners with racist or racial orientationists (there's no collectivism to fight collectivism, only sanction it through the attempt)

[william.scherk]

Breitbart reported on an Ann Coulter's podcast interview with Gavin McInnes. Apparently she believes immigration to the USA may get so bad and brown, the only solution will be to flee to Canada.

I think she may have a truncated understanding of the Great White North and its multicultural reality. I am reminded of her appearance on Canadian television some time ago:

-- an unrelated question: why should I view a long video from a dude with no name, with no written output other than Youtube comments, no references, no means of fact-checking his material?

I understand the Objectivish oral tradition, but ...

For those who enjoy an intellectual discussion, here is Stephen Pinker in a lecture on Genes, Jews and Intelligence (Neil has referenced Pinker's views somewhat cryptically above).

This lecture was it seems an expanded presentation of an article at the New Republic entitled Genes, Jews and Intelligence, It makes for good, thoughtful reading -- for those of us who are not so interested in anonymous Youtube activists ...

Edited June 13, 2015 by william.scherk

[Neil Parille]

Will,

So do you agree with Harry Binswanger that third world immigrants reduce crime?

Do you believe that Jews have the same innate intelligence as Southern Italians such as myself?

-Neil

[william.scherk]

Will,

So do you agree with Harry Binswanger that third world immigrants reduce crime?

Do you believe that Jews have the same innate intelligence as Southern Italians such as myself?

-Neil

Neil, I have questions pending for you at #30.

As for Binswanger, I think he is an idiot on more than one issue. On immigration, he has supported idiotic ideas, in my eyes. As I understand him, he is in favour of absolutely open immigration -- no borders, no border patrols, checks, passports, yadda yadda. No "border" controls on his HBLetter racket, then. No door-checks on ideology or TheBrandens. (if you have a Binswanger quote wherein he states up-front that 'third-world immigrants reduce crime,' bring it forward and I can give it a look ...)

I am not interested in listening to a very lengthy Youtube tirade from a nameless non-entity who has a problem with "Negros." If he can write, write. If he can publish, publish. If he cannot fulfill basic minimum requirements to get my attention or consideration, he can fuck off back to the race-realist fever swamp.

-- I haven't read a reasoned, straightforward opinion from you that goes beyond a paragraph. If you have a position, state it, articulate it, defend it, make a persuasive case for your own beliefs.

Edited June 13, 2015 by william.scherk

[Brant Gaede]

If one clicks on the link William provided in #79, you will soon read that if one group has an average IQ of 100 and another of 115 (one standard deviation above), the second group will produce 42 times more people with IQs of 160 and above than the first group. So, if we can get the first group up to the average of the second, the implication is nature will do the rest in the manufacture of mass IQ genius.

Let's get to work!

--Brant

maybe we (oops!) will really understand the universe someday (but then we [oops!--sorry , Greg] would be bored with it all)

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

I think common sense goes out the window with these discussions on genetics and IQ.

In Brazil, there are communities in the Northeast (for example) who have low IQ's. But you see inbreeding, poor nutrition, constant exposure to harsh desert weather and things like that as a part of their culture.

I suppose the genes of these people could contain a tendency toward fewer synapses during normal brain operation and they pass this to their offspring, but new neural pathways are easily formed by focused study and conscientious repetition. So even if there is a genetic component, there are so many other inputs into a living organism (especially a human being) re intelligence that, in practical terms, the effect of any possible hindering genetic component is easily annulled.

(I'm not talking about defective individuals within a group, but entire groups since this is the topic under discussion.)

Here's a figure I pulled totally out of my behind because I think this issue is so trivial. Let's give genetics about 2% actual impact on the average intelligence of individuals within a group.

That means for 2% genetically handicapped people, should they get the following as they grow up: good nutrition, instruction in correct learning skills, enough exercise, an emotionally favorable environment for study, inspiration from motivating people around them, a reality-based philosophy in terms of how and what to learn (but they can be otherwise religious), a solid curriculum of at least the three R's, an environment where people don't laugh at dreams of doing great things, but instead foster them, and maybe a decent family life, I submit neuroplasticity and normal passing on of favorably altered genes will make short work of this genetic difference within the group when compared to the rest of mankind.

The idea is to make a core story that emphasizes and values these things and teach it to communities that show lower intelligence, not point to their genes and pretend this is something of social or metaphysical importance on how far they can dream to achieve. Believe me, if people think learning is important, they will find the means to learn. They always have. This goes for individuals and groups. Now in the Internet age, access to top-quality education for motivated folks is not even a barrier anymore.

The present discussion of "racial realism" or whatever other euphemism anyone wants to use for belief in racial superiority/inferiority is giving me the same vibes as if we were trying to hold a serious discussion about the pros and cons of phrenology on human intelligence.

I mean, really?

Dayaamm!

Michael

[anthony]

I envy you the time you have to listen to this.

--Brant

Haven't you seen it?

Nope. You did say "listen." Four hours or two?

I've give it a peek.

--Brant

in and out in 55 seconds: why care about race?--there are blacks that do what I can't as surgeons and mathematicians and there are whites as dumb as a rock and as for myself I think I can do insightful and creative things I don't see others doing, so let the collectivists have this collectivist thing of theirs and judge individuals for what they are and do because the answer to collectivism is individualism, not participating as equal partners with racist or racial orientationists (there's no collectivism to fight collectivism, only sanction it through the attempt)

The last 20minutes, I suggested. And if anyone can challenge the merit in those studies I'd also like to hear it. The object of the exercise is to get facts out in the open. Nothing will further non-racialism better than being able to openly discuss every element of it.The larger danger is leaving the subject taboo - for fear of offence or of being squelched by cries of "Bigot!" from regressive, repressive Progressives.

Off of the scientific basis of course what you say about collectivism and its counter is true. Have you ever thought and noticed that you can find more disparity between individuals of 'a group', e.g., man and man, and more similarity between, say, a woman and a man (in the ways that really matter)? and it goes for all 'groups'.

Collectivism and its nephew racism is one gross and determinist assumption/presumptuousness about a person or people. Of course collectivism is the logical fallacy of-- one represents all - and all are represented by one. It runs both ways, since the collectivist who vaguely perceives individuals as identified by their groups, first will have perceived himself primarily (and falsely) the same way. Individualism also runs both directions starting at self.

[moralist]

You guys are creeping me out clinically discussing IQ like Nazi "doctors"!

Greg

[anthony]

It's what objective truths entail, Greg. Best left unspoken and silently stigmatized, you believe? That will indeed put this into the hands of evil or ignorant people who will manipulate its findings. Humanly, IQ and race is the most insignificant matter of all, to repeat again, but it requires having knowledge, proportionality and perspective to understand, not emotionalism nor mystique.

[BaalChatzaf]

As Steven Pinker points out, it is very hard to come up with a cultural explanation for the high IQ and success rate of Jews.

God's chosen people.

That blasphemous meme is a killer. I am semi-ashamed that it originated with my ancestors. My co-ethnics found out just how bad that meme is when the Nazis made exactly the same claim.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[moralist]

It's what objective truths entail, Greg. Best left unspoken and silently stigmatized, you believe? That will indeed put this into the hands of evil or ignorant people who will manipulate its findings. Humanly, IQ and race is the most insignificant matter of all, to repeat again, but it requires having knowledge, proportionality and perspective to understand, not emotionalism nor mystique.

I'm just waiting for someone to haul out their cranial calipers.

I understand your point, Tony. What gets me is the tacit implication that IQ is somehow a moral value... when people of the highest IQ's can also be the most despicably vile creatures. And just to be clear, I consider this is to be a harmless "angels on heads of pins" discussion. None of it has a practical application, because no one here sets government public policy... thank God.

Greg

[moralist]

As Steven Pinker points out, it is very hard to come up with a cultural explanation for the high IQ and success rate of Jews.

God's chosen people.

That blasphemous meme is a killer. I am semi-ashamed that it originated with my ancestors. My co-ethnics found out just how bad that meme is when the Nazis made exactly the same claim.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Like I said, Bob... for some it's a blessing, while for others it's a curse.

Every truth is a double edged sword that cuts both ways.

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

It's what objective truths entail, Greg. Best left unspoken and silently stigmatized, you believe? That will indeed put this into the hands of evil or ignorant people who will manipulate its findings. Humanly, IQ and race is the most insignificant matter of all, to repeat again, but it requires having knowledge, proportionality and perspective to understand, not emotionalism nor mystique.

I'm just waiting for someone to haul out their cranial calipers.

I understand your point, Tony. What gets me is the tacit implication that IQ is somehow a moral value... when people of the highest IQ's can also be the most despicably vile creatures. And just to be clear, I consider this is to be a harmless "angels on heads of pins" discussion. None of it has a practical application, because no one here sets government public policy... thank God.

Greg

No problemo. As you say, government public policy is the public deserved the policy. No?

--Brant

I admit they don't deserve me (but I do)

[moralist]

No problemo. As you say, government public policy is the public deserved the policy. No?

Absolutely true, Brant.

It takes a lot of Doctor Mengele's to create the self inflicted Mengele government they deserve.

Greg

[BaalChatzaf]

The only way Ann Coulter could surprise me if I saw an micrograph of her genome and it had two X chromosomes...

[anthony]

It's what objective truths entail, Greg. Best left unspoken and silently stigmatized, you believe? That will indeed put this into the hands of evil or ignorant people who will manipulate its findings. Humanly, IQ and race is the most insignificant matter of all, to repeat again, but it requires having knowledge, proportionality and perspective to understand, not emotionalism nor mystique.

I'm just waiting for someone to haul out their cranial calipers.

I understand your point, Tony. What gets me is the tacit implication that IQ is somehow a moral value... when people of the highest IQ's can also be the most despicably vile creatures. And just to be clear, I consider this is to be a harmless "angels on heads of pins" discussion. None of it has a practical application, because no one here sets government public policy... thank God.

Greg

Right, intelligence is *potential* power (like a V-8 motor) which doesn't certify its possessor is going to be rational/moral - and often isn't. Better than a sputtering and stalling V-8, a smoothly running 4...

Intelligence Quotient is a comparable measurement of the "potential power" related to masses of other people, but objectively, the only measure of a person is his direct, singular grasp of reality.

[moralist]

Right, intelligence is *potential* power (like a V-8 motor) which doesn't certify its possessor is going to be rational/moral - and often isn't. Better than a sputtering and stalling V-8, a smoothly running 4...

Intelligence Quotient is a comparable measurement of the "potential power" related to masses of other people, but objectively, the only measure of a person is his direct, singular grasp of reality..

That's true, Tony... for people can only do evil by first choosing to reject objective reality. Higher intelligence only means they have the ability to do more damage. So the choice of whether or not to act in harmony with objective reality is not a function of intelligence. It is a function of free will.

Every adult grasps the objective truth of reality before they choose to either accept it and act on it... or to reject it and embrace lies.

Greg

[Mikee]

It's what objective truths entail, Greg. Best left unspoken and silently stigmatized, you believe? That will indeed put this into the hands of evil or ignorant people who will manipulate its findings. Humanly, IQ and race is the most insignificant matter of all, to repeat again, but it requires having knowledge, proportionality and perspective to understand, not emotionalism nor mystique.

I'm just waiting for someone to haul out their cranial calipers.

I understand your point, Tony. What gets me is the tacit implication that IQ is somehow a moral value... when people of the highest IQ's can also be the most despicably vile creatures. And just to be clear, I consider this is to be a harmless "angels on heads of pins" discussion. None of it has a practical application, because no one here sets government public policy... thank God.

Greg

Right, intelligence is *potential* power (like a V-8 motor) which doesn't certify its possessor is going to be rational/moral - and often isn't. Better than a sputtering and stalling V-8, a smoothly running 4...

Intelligence Quotient is a comparable measurement of the "potential power" related to masses of other people, but objectively, the only measure of a person is his direct, singular grasp of reality.

I like the car motor analogy...

What is "culture"? Drive train? Chassis? Tires? Everything but the motor including turn signals, brakes and headlights...? Drive-ability: innate traits, including IQ potential and mechanical design[?]. The driver is the EGO.

[moralist]

Right, intelligence is *potential* power (like a V-8 motor) which doesn't certify its possessor is going to be rational/moral...

Tony, what you said deserves highlighting... as Ayn Rand wrote a parallel idea to yours:

"Money will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause."

[intelligence] will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause."

Greg

[anthony]

I like the car motor analogy...

What is "culture"? Drive train? Chassis? Tires? Everything but the motor including turn signals, brakes and headlights...? Drive-ability: innate traits, including IQ potential and mechanical design[?]. The driver is the EGO.

Culture - the car's bodywork and design?

I have fun with a few simple auto and driving analogies like that. Another, is to ask a person this:

Why do you stop your vehicle at a stop sign?

In random order, give the values which he/she must list according to their priority.

a. The law dictates it, and I'd get into trouble if I didn't b. I could damage my car in an accident c. I might cause physical harm to another driver d. I might do physical harm to myself e. not stopping could make other drivers angry with me f. I could damage another person's vehicle.

It is interesting and quite scary what premises come out. One put b first (he was an owner of a new BMW), one said the Law must always be obeyed so it was top priority.

I'm guessing that a libertarian would respond with c first, followed by f, under the NIOF principle and property rights (kidding, kidding...).

Anyhow the exercise can turn into a mild explanation of rational selfishness.

[Brant Gaede]

Right, intelligence is *potential* power (like a V-8 motor) which doesn't certify its possessor is going to be rational/moral...

Tony, what you said deserves highlighting... as Ayn Rand wrote a parallel idea to yours:

"Money will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause."

[intelligence] will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause."

Greg

You do a lot of cut and pasting of Randianisms for practical application to yourself and not doing that by others has made her philosophy worthless that way for them, but qua Rand that's the only value in what you say for it's up to others to do that for themselves. This is not to say it would be necessarily for the good. I remember from decades ago reading about a right-wing conservative not-so-smart-racist-fascist who kept a copy of Atlas Shrugged prominently on his bookshelf for reference if not show off.

In what you say: that is, you are utterly incapable of any good explication on her philosophy. I make this statement after reading almost everything you have written here on OL. You are consistent, however, in your continual restating of your opinions. No one has to go back and read any of what you have written so far, just read as you post for several months and it will all be there, sans some interesting true-life anecdotes.

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

I like the car motor analogy...

What is "culture"? Drive train? Chassis? Tires? Everything but the motor including turn signals, brakes and headlights...? Drive-ability: innate traits, including IQ potential and mechanical design[?]. The driver is the EGO.

Culture - the car's bodywork and design?

I have fun with a few simple auto and driving analogies like that. Another, is to ask a person this:

Why do you stop your vehicle at a stop sign?

In random order, give the values which he/she must list according to their priority.

a. The law dictates it, and I'd get into trouble if I didn't b. I could damage my car in an accident c. I might cause physical harm to another driver d. I might do physical harm to myself e. not stopping could make other drivers angry with me f. I could damage another person's vehicle.

It is interesting and quite scary what premises come out. One put b first (he was an owner of a new BMW), one said the Law must always be obeyed so it was top priority.

I'm guessing that a libertarian would respond with c first, followed by f, under the NIOF principle and property rights (kidding, kidding...).

Anyhow the exercise can turn into a mild explanation of rational selfishness.

I am an expert driver including the semi-tractor trailer which I can legally drive commercially right now. I learned rules of the road intuitively as a child passenger in cars and understood what they were for before I was even 10. The genius of traffic laws is for as many people as possible get to where they are going as efficiently as possible with no accidents through best thought out and applied standardization for consistency. Those drivers that neither respect nor understand this get penaltized, one would hope before harming themselves or others. If you want to add unnecessary stuff to this simplicity and ignore the basics-first and go out and drive, you will bump into things. You will also be scared, making things worse, for your intuitive understanding will be you really don't know WTF you are doing for you also don't know what the other drivers are doing and will do and why.

You may be making another, more abstract point and this is only an example of what you are up to, but I've not the time to refine it. I do know not knowing that, whatever it is, won't be reflected in poor driving, at least not by me.

--Brant

the left turn--be extremely careful or kill the guy on the motorcycle

[moralist]

Right, intelligence is *potential* power (like a V-8 motor) which doesn't certify its possessor is going to be rational/moral...

Tony, what you said deserves highlighting... as Ayn Rand wrote a parallel idea to yours:

"Money will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause."

[intelligence] will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause."

Greg

You do a lot of cut and pasting of Randianisms for practical application to yourself and not doing that by others has made her philosophy worthless that way for them, but qua Rand that's the only value in what you say for it's up to others to do that for themselves.

Yes, it is, Brant.

I'm not interested in intellectual theory, but in practical real world application. I haven't the power to make her philosophy worthless for anyone else... because I have no control over what they do about it. However, I do have the power to make it valuable for me by making it a reality in my life through my own actions.

In what you say: that is, you are utterly incapable of any good explication on her philosophy.

Exactly.

I'm quite content to leave that for others to try.

It's impossible for me to make her philosophy clear to anyone who isn't doing what I'm doing... but if they did, it would be perfectly clear because they made it real in their own lives.

Experience is non transferable. Go get your own.

I make this statement after reading almost everything you have written here on OL. You are consistent, however, in your continual restating of your opinions. No one has to go back and read any of what you have written so far, just read as you post for several months and it will all be there, sans some interesting true-life anecdotes.

That's because those principles don't change... only my own personal experience of them is constantly changing.

Once I put 2 + 2 together, I found a treasure trove of other useful parallels between money and intelligence

Intelligence is the product of virtue, but it will not give you virtue and will not redeem your vices.

Greg