william.scherk Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) Someone took control of my mind and keyboard and veered off on a tangent. 54 minutes ago, anthony said: 6 hours ago, william.scherk said: 7 hours ago, anthony said: I claim there is a commonality among atheists - "determined", logically - by their mechanist/materialist view of the brain ("meat", biology, DNA, genes, evolution, species, society, religion, etc.). I am atheist. I am guessing that you feel you described my views with your "commonalities" ... Are you atheist, Tony? What an odd question, after what you have read from me. Do I not fit the usual "atheist" profile? If one could have a conversation we would pause to consider and answer questions, and say things like, "getting back to what you said about blah ..." We'd sometimes be pointed and challenging, and sometimes be chin-on-fist listening. I see the beginnings of a useful or fruitful examination of difference, disagreement, disjunct and etcetera -- and so here I was trying to tease, to tease out a more personal reckoning. Here is what I would have stepped in with, if I felt you might have misinterpreted intent or focus: "I am more interested in how you think you and I would fit into the 'commonality' [community] of atheists, logically, given your generalization." The thing about my atheism is that it is so boring. I cannot claim a faith in any supernatural realm. Big deal. I might be among the so-called "reasonable atheists" because I find it not too difficult to have interchanges with believers. Without making them feel I disdain them personally, helping them to understand the function of a minority opinion, a dissent. But mostly to underline a shared humanity if possible. Sometimes this lets them see an objective angle on morality, that it sure enough arises in non-believers, that you do not need established religion to be fully moral and upright. Quote If so, I can take credit for never accepting (in mankind or myself) physical, biological "meaty" stuff in explanation of the mind, which is evidently integrated with the body. As for you seeing commonality in what I described, only you can be the judge of that. I wasn't thinking initially of you, but mainly from my reading of secular philosophers, and from talking with atheists I've known face to face - enough to detect the constant of their materialism (btw, they largely moved into Left politics). Yes, I was an atheist quite early, almost drifted into, as I slowly realized I hadn't any place for a "God" in the universe nor my mind. It was an easy breakup, as I recall. No hard feelings on either side. I still see or feel a mystery at the emergence of mind in the earthly creatures. The seeming paradox of consciousness, the problem of qualia, the lessons and temptations of neuroscience and more generally, empirical psychology (absent the whoopee of unprovable Freudianism still infecting psychological inquiry) -- all of this tells me how relatively ignorant I am. I don't have the keys to the kingdom of full knowledge. I think also that it pays me personally to read 'dissenting' thought through its gestation and through a kind of dialectic/exchange. That is why I found the disagreement between Dennett and Harris so compelling (and followed on to other dissenters such as Massimo Pigliucci). It evolved. Or I evolved some new thoughts. Not only did I better understand the "nits" being picked, but I could compare to my own fitful ability to express some conceptual relationships between morals, mind, will, matter/energy and Humanity. Sometimes we cannot help but be tribal or moralistic. The "meaty mind" in us responds to ancient triggers. PS -- Peter, though your copy and pastes from OWL may be ugly and overlong, I always read them. They are valuable to me. I wish I had access to the raw material, so I could figure out how to refashion them into a database, searchable and shareable. I was a silent subscriber to OWL in its terminal months. Edited June 15, 2018 by william.scherk Chicago style editing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!Register a new account
Already have an account? Sign in here.Sign In Now