Carlos Castaneda

[moralist]

Greg,

Possibly you didn't notice this question:

When did you first meet Castaneda? According to the linked post [second quote down here] it was "before the name 'Tensegrity' was adopted."

Ellen

Sorry, I did miss it.

We first met Carlos in 1993.

Later, in 1995, Carlos formed the corporation called Cleargreen, and used the name Tensegrity to describe the movements (kind of like Tai Chi) that he taught in paid public seminars. I believe that he did this because he needed a way to support the 16 women and also to give them something to do to keep them occupied.

Greg

[Ellen Stuttle]

We first met Carlos in 1993.

Later, in 1995, Carlos formed the corporation called Cleargreen, and used the name Tensegrity to describe the movements (kind of like Tai Chi) that he taught in paid public seminars. I believe that he did this because he needed a way to support the 16 women and also to give them something to do to keep them occupied.

Greg

Thanks for the information.

Probably the 1995 date is given in material I've skimmed, but hadn't registered as being so short a time before his death.

I was wondering why I hadn't heard of the "Tensegrity" stuff, but by 1995 I was well past being "up to date" on New Age sorts of activities. Mainly it was in the early '80s that I had contact with some New Age groups, via a friend of mine who was living in Seattle, Washington, and whom I sometimes visited.

Ellen

[moralist]

We first met Carlos in 1993.

Later, in 1995, Carlos formed the corporation called Cleargreen, and used the name Tensegrity to describe the movements (kind of like Tai Chi) that he taught in paid public seminars. I believe that he did this because he needed a way to support the 16 women and also to give them something to do to keep them occupied.

Greg

Thanks for the information.

Probably the 1995 date is given in material I've skimmed, but hadn't registered as being so short a time before his death.

I was wondering why I hadn't heard of the "Tensegrity" stuff, but by 1995 I was well past being "up to date" on New Age sorts of activities. Mainly it was in the early '80s that I had contact with some New Age groups, via a friend of mine who was living in Seattle, Washington, and whom I sometimes visited.

Ellen

Tensegrity was mainly a local Los Angeles phenomenon, and the interest here was intense. However, it did eventually spread to other countries more easily than to the rest of the US.

And yes... our time with Carlos was cut short by his death. We were expecting to chase him and the gang around Westwood for many more years.

Greg

[Ellen Stuttle]

Tensegrity was mainly a local Los Angeles phenomenon, and the interest here was intense. However, it did eventually spread to other countries more easily than to the rest of the US.

The New Age impetus has pretty much fled in most of the US, except for a related interest in Eastern martial arts disciplines. Young people today spend their time Twittering.

Ellen

[moralist]

Tensegrity was mainly a local Los Angeles phenomenon, and the interest here was intense. However, it did eventually spread to other countries more easily than to the rest of the US.

The New Age impetus has pretty much fled in most of the US, except for a related interest in Eastern martial arts disciplines. Young people today spend their time Twittering.

Ellen

That's true. Castaneda was a phenomenon of the doped up baby boomer generation.

Greg

[dldelancey]

Greg,

What was the motive for filming CC? Was it to collect information for your wife's book? Or to expose him in some way? Or for the adventure of it? Or something else?

[moralist]

Greg,

What was the motive for filming CC? Was it to collect information for your wife's book? Or to expose him in some way? Or for the adventure of it? Or something else?

We became curious about Carlos because he was so secretive, and absolutely no one outside of the cult knew anything about him, how he lived, or even where he lived. We secretly followed him for a year before deciding to see if we could film him, which was forbidden. Gabi's decision to write a book was made long after the fact.

We could have exposed him, but that was completely out of the question since we held no malice towards him because he had done nothing to personally harm us. He died at the end of April '98, and no one knew anything about what we did until Halloween night 6 months later when we made a public announcement. Then, it didn't matter to him and had absolutely no effect on how he lived his life.

It was definitely an adventure... and Gabi and I had no end of fun.

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

Greg,

What was the motive for filming CC? Was it to collect information for your wife's book? Or to expose him in some way? Or for the adventure of it? Or something else?

We became curious about Carlos because he was so secretive, and absolutely no one outside of the cult knew anything about him, how he lived, or even where he lived. We secretly followed him for a year before deciding to see if we could film him, which was forbidden. Gabi's decision to write a book was made long after the fact.

We could have exposed him, but that was completely out of the question since we held no malice towards him because he had done nothing to personally harm us. He died at the end of April '98, and no one knew anything about what we did until Halloween night 6 months later when we made a public announcement. Then, it didn't matter to him and had absolutely no effect on how he lived his life.

It was definitely an adventure... and Gabi and I had no end of fun.

Greg

Since your curiosity required no filming the only reason stated so far is the adventure of "fun." And you were willing to keep it up indefinitely?

--Brant

I think you only partially answered the question

these days "filming" is so common and easy the ethical ethos must have morphed

[moralist]

Greg,

What was the motive for filming CC? Was it to collect information for your wife's book? Or to expose him in some way? Or for the adventure of it? Or something else?

We became curious about Carlos because he was so secretive, and absolutely no one outside of the cult knew anything about him, how he lived, or even where he lived. We secretly followed him for a year before deciding to see if we could film him, which was forbidden. Gabi's decision to write a book was made long after the fact.

We could have exposed him, but that was completely out of the question since we held no malice towards him because he had done nothing to personally harm us. He died at the end of April '98, and no one knew anything about what we did until Halloween night 6 months later when we made a public announcement. Then, it didn't matter to him and had absolutely no effect on how he lived his life.

It was definitely an adventure... and Gabi and I had no end of fun.

Greg

Since your curiosity required no filming the only reason stated so far is the adventure of "fun." And you were willing to keep it up indefinitely?

Yes.

A fun adventure basically sums it up... but it's important to note that this was not fun and adventure at someone else's expense.

Nothing in this world continues indefinitely. We just positioned ourselves in the flow of events and surfed it like a wave. Filming the ever elusive Carlos without being caught made it even more of an adventure because this was something that no one else had ever done before.

Greg

[PDS]

Greg,

What was the motive for filming CC? Was it to collect information for your wife's book? Or to expose him in some way? Or for the adventure of it? Or something else?

We became curious about Carlos because he was so secretive, and absolutely no one outside of the cult knew anything about him, how he lived, or even where he lived. We secretly followed him for a year before deciding to see if we could film him, which was forbidden. Gabi's decision to write a book was made long after the fact.

We could have exposed him, but that was completely out of the question since we held no malice towards him because he had done nothing to personally harm us. He died at the end of April '98, and no one knew anything about what we did until Halloween night 6 months later when we made a public announcement. Then, it didn't matter to him and had absolutely no effect on how he lived his life.

It was definitely an adventure... and Gabi and I had no end of fun.

Greg

Since your curiosity required no filming the only reason stated so far is the adventure of "fun." And you were willing to keep it up indefinitely?

Yes.

A fun adventure basically sums it up... but it's important to note that this was not fun and adventure at someone else's expense.

Nothing in this world continues indefinitely. We just positioned ourselves in the flow of events and surfed it like a wave. Filming the ever elusive Carlos without being caught made it even more of an adventure because this was something that no one else had ever done before.

Greg

The whole filming thing sounds a little creepy to me. Kind of like a sex tape without sex.

I watched the you tube movie you originally linked and expected him to be far more interesting than he turned out to be--at least as portrayed by BBC.

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

We just positioned ourselves in the flow of events and surfed it like a wave. Filming the ever elusive Carlos without being caught made it even more of an adventure because this was something that no one else had ever done before.

Greg,

There's a reason I resonate with you.

That reminds me of me.

Michael

[moralist]

Greg,

What was the motive for filming CC? Was it to collect information for your wife's book? Or to expose him in some way? Or for the adventure of it? Or something else?

We became curious about Carlos because he was so secretive, and absolutely no one outside of the cult knew anything about him, how he lived, or even where he lived. We secretly followed him for a year before deciding to see if we could film him, which was forbidden. Gabi's decision to write a book was made long after the fact.

We could have exposed him, but that was completely out of the question since we held no malice towards him because he had done nothing to personally harm us. He died at the end of April '98, and no one knew anything about what we did until Halloween night 6 months later when we made a public announcement. Then, it didn't matter to him and had absolutely no effect on how he lived his life.

It was definitely an adventure... and Gabi and I had no end of fun.

Greg

Since your curiosity required no filming the only reason stated so far is the adventure of "fun." And you were willing to keep it up indefinitely?

Yes.

A fun adventure basically sums it up... but it's important to note that this was not fun and adventure at someone else's expense.

Nothing in this world continues indefinitely. We just positioned ourselves in the flow of events and surfed it like a wave. Filming the ever elusive Carlos without being caught made it even more of an adventure because this was something that no one else had ever done before.

Greg

The whole filming thing sounds a little creepy to me. Kind of like a sex tape without sex.

I have no problem with your opinion.

I watched the you tube movie you originally linked and expected him to be far more interesting than he turned out to be--at least as portrayed by BBC.

It's always more interesting when you actually know the person.

Greg

[dldelancey]

You don't think CC thought it was fun and adventure at his expense? Considering he would not have been in favor of it? I'm not sure the argument that he never knew about it is valid.

[Selene]

I'm not sure the argument that he never knew about it is a valid.

What do you believe? I think you have the same suspicions that I have about them being useful "toys" for his purposes.

[moralist]

You don't think CC thought it was fun and adventure at his expense?

He couldn't think that because he never knew. We never interfered with how he lived his life even though we could have.

Considering he would not have been in favor of it? I'm not sure the argument that he never knew about it is a valid.

Ok.

Greg

[Jonathan]

You don't think CC thought it was fun and adventure at his expense?

He couldn't think that because he never knew. We never interfered with how he lived his life even though we could have.

Don't you think that he knows now? I was assuming that he believed and that you believe in some form of afterlife/continued form of existence after death. In which case he would know of your shenanigans now, no?

What if he haunts you?!!!

J

[dldelancey]

I'm not sure the argument that he never knew about it is a valid.

What do you believe? I think you have the same suspicions that I have about them being useful "toys" for his purposes.

I literally meant I'm not sure. I was kinda hoping Greg would offer something more than nonchalance, something that would move me in one way or the other. As is, it seems that the whole thing was nothing more than a couple of people taking pictures of someone simply because they knew that person didn't want his picture taken. {shrug} okay, whatever.

[moralist]

You don't think CC thought it was fun and adventure at his expense?

He couldn't think that because he never knew. We never interfered with how he lived his life even though we could have.

Don't you think that he knows now?

While purely speculative,

I'll answer anyway.

I think he doesn't care.

It's impossible to be upset

about anything in this world

and go to sleep at the same time.

Greg

[moralist]

I'm not sure the argument that he never knew about it is a valid.

What do you believe? I think you have the same suspicions that I have about them being useful "toys" for his purposes.

I literally meant I'm not sure. I was kinda hoping Greg would offer something more than nonchalance, something that would move me in one way or the other.

I've done a good job of it if you're not moved in one way or the other. Then you're free to make up your own mind.

As is, it seems that the whole thing was nothing more than a couple of people taking pictures of someone simply because they knew that person didn't want his picture taken. {shrug} okay, whatever.

That's as good an opinion as any.

We had no great cosmic agenda. The opportunity presented itself and we took it. However, as frivolously meaningless as it seems, there were side effects. Working as a team brought Gabi and I together, and during that time we got married and bought a piece of land to build our home. So you could almost say that Carlos brought us together. This helps to explain why we had no ill will towards him and didn't interfere with his life.

Greg

[PDS]

You don't think CC thought it was fun and adventure at his expense? Considering he would not have been in favor of it? I'm not sure the argument that he never knew about it is valid.

I don't get the impression that Greg cares a whole lot whether CC had a right to expect any privacy on this issue, or whether he trusted that such behavior was not happening with his friends.

In fact, according to Greg's oft-stated perspective, CC got exactly what he chose and what he deserved. If Greg and his wife secretly recorded him and took advantage of CC's (at least implicit) trust in them, that is not a problem Greg is going to lose much sleep over, and that is 100% that fault of CC, not them. By parity of reasoning, if your co-worker is secretly tape recording each of his conversations with you and/or your neighbor is secretly peering into your bedroom window at night, then it is up to you to ferret that out and put an end to it. You could frisk your coworker each day and/or you could keep your shades drawn, and you have chosen not to, so the fault is 100% on you.

Right Greg?

[Ellen Stuttle]

We had no great cosmic agenda. The opportunity presented itself and we took it. However, as frivolously meaningless as it seems, there were side effects. Working as a team brought Gabi and I together, and during that time we got married and bought a piece of land to build our home. So you could almost say that Carlos brought us together. This helps to explain why we had no ill will towards him and didn't interfere with his life.

Greg

I don't see why you'd have had cause for ill will towards him in any case. You took his classes and apparently enjoyed them. Your only grievance, if one could call it that, seems to have been that he was "secretive."

Ellen

[moralist]

We had no great cosmic agenda. The opportunity presented itself and we took it. However, as frivolously meaningless as it seems, there were side effects. Working as a team brought Gabi and I together, and during that time we got married and bought a piece of land to build our home. So you could almost say that Carlos brought us together. This helps to explain why we had no ill will towards him and didn't interfere with his life.

Greg

I don't see why you'd have had cause for ill will towards him in any case. You took his classes and apparently enjoyed them. Your only grievance, if one could call it that, seems to have been that he was "secretive."

Ellen

...and even that's not a complaint as it did nothing to impact our lives in any negative way. It was just a fact.

Greg

[moralist]

I don't get the impression that Greg cares a whole lot whether CC had a right to expect any privacy on this issue,

No one who is out in public has any right to expect privacy because they never had it in the first place and never will. In any city you are constantly being filmed by countless numbers of hidden and visible security cameras.

I'm aware of your efforts to try to couch this in terms of an innocent betrayed victim Ceasar being stabbed while he cries "Et tu, Brutus", so you are welcome to try your very best.

In fact, according to Greg's oft-stated perspective, CC got exactly what he chose and what he deserved.

There's no need to make it personal. Everyone gets what they deserve as the consequences of their own actions. That includes you, me, and everyone else.

Greg

[Brant Gaede]

Not "everyone." You have no way of knowing everyone or perhaps even very many. The way you state it you invalidate your own generalization not because you are wrong generally, but because of your traducification of generalize.

--Brant

[moralist]

Not "everyone." You have no way of knowing everyone or perhaps even very many. The way you state it you invalidate your own generalization not because you are wrong generally, but because of your traducification of generalize.

--Brant

Moral law is as ubiquitous as gravity.

No one in this world is exempt from it.

Greg

(I think we've been down this road before... )