Question for Mike Marotta on Security

[caroljane]

How did it happen if (as reported) a heavily-armed person got into a heavily-guarded military installation using the ID of a former employee?

[Selene]

Inside job is my first intuitive thought.

If there is another shooter then the prior statement becomes more probable.

A...

[caroljane]

I agree, they have said they are looking for more. But WHY? oh, why?

[Selene]

I agree, they have said they are looking for more. But WHY? oh, why?

Carol, would you ask a rabid dog why it was snarling through barred teeth with froth dripping from it's lips why it was moving to attack you?

Think Gregory Peck in To Kill A Mockingbird...

[caroljane]

Put how do people turn into rabid dogs, in the eyes of others and themselves?

[Selene]

They become lethal psychopathic animals with very "logical" self delusional states and act on them with no super-ego/conscience to rein in behaviour.

[caroljane]

You are describing psychopathic killers, and I agree with your description. In such cases there is no why that we could understand.

Me being me, you will understand that I feel sad that the "how" was so continuously available to the apparently deranged person who took so many lives.

[Selene]

You are describing psychopathic killers, and I agree with your description. In such cases there is no why that we could understand.

Me being me, you will understand that I feel sad that the "how" was so continuously available to the apparently deranged person who took so many lives.

Of course.

The same way that I feel sad and outraged by the fact that the "how" is specifically denied availability to service personnel that we trust with weapons outside of the confines of a military base!

If the "how" were available to the folks today, this rabid dog would have been killed quickly by the mild mannered bespectacled lawyer, doctor, or, Indian Chief working on the base.

[caroljane]

Oh, Adam!!! Without violating his rights how could anyone have ascertained that he was a rabid dog and not a law abiding citizen?

[Selene]

Oh, Adam!!! Without violating his rights how could anyone have ascertained that he was a rabid dog and not a law abiding citizen?

I think the two (2) prior incidents wherein he used guns might have been places to stop him and get him his shots.

[caroljane]

But he was not charged for the prior incidents - no record. No way to know he had any gun problems.

[Selene]

But he was not charged for the prior incidents - no record. No way to know he had any gun problems.

[Selene]

But he was not charged for the prior incidents - no record. No way to know he had any gun problems.

So how do we know about it then?

[caroljane]

We know because of journalism, the dread MSM,who dig out public records and interview witnesses. As you well know,

[Selene]

We know because of journalism, the dread MSM,who dig out public records and interview witnesses. As you well know,

And therefore, with all the spying, he should have been on a watch list...

[caroljane]

And the ever-reliable AR-15 continues its cull.

[Selene]

And the ever-reliable AR-15 continues its cull.

Question: Have you seen the rifle? Does it "look" like an AR-15, or, is it the actual AR-15?

However, not as worldwide popular as the AK-47 which is a the most popular weapon in the world and used by insurgents and folks who hate having their rifle jam in a fire fight, in war, or, in your neighborhood/community.

The original AK-47 was one of the first assault rifles of 2nd generation, after the German StG 44.^[11] Even after six decades the model and its variants remain the most widely used and popular assault rifles in the world because of their durability, low production cost, availability, and ease of use. It has been manufactured in many countries and has seen service with armed forces as well as irregular forces worldwide. The AK-47 was the basis for developing many other types of individual and crew-served firearms. More AK-type rifles have been produced than all other assault rifles combined.^[3] ...

...The AK-47 is a selective-fire, gas-operated 7.62×39mm assault rifle, first developed in the USSR by Mikhail Kalashnikov. It is officially known as Avtomat Kalashnikova (Russian: Автомат Калашникова). It is also known as a Kalashnikov, an AK or in Russian slang, Kalash.

The AR-15 comes in many sizes and has many options, depending on the manufacturer. The part shown bottom center is the lower receiver with pistol grip and trigger assembly. Under U.S. law the lower alone is the component legally considered the "firearm".

The Colt AR-15 is a lightweight, 5.56 mm, magazine-fed, air cooled, semi-automatic rifle, with a rotating-lock bolt, actuated by direct impingement gas operation or long/short stroke piston operation. It is manufactured with the extensive use of aluminum alloys and synthetic materials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15

So what kind of AR-15 was it?

[caroljane]

The kind that killed 12 people.

This is me, Adam. Can't not comment though there is nothing more to say.

[Selene]

The kind that killed 12 people.

This is me, Adam. Can't not comment though there is nothing more to say.

I understand.

I wonder what kind of assault weapon the "breach" troops killed the rabid animal with and how many lives that assault rifle saved?

[syrakusos]

Daunce, you have been having a nice chat with Selene. I have the same questions that you do. This is from this morning's CNN.com:

What we don't know: But Alexis also had a "pattern of misconduct" and an arrest record. So, how did he get security clearance? Former Navy SEAL Cade Courtley says a poor or incomplete background check is to blame. "Most people when they get into that, they are given an interim clearance and that means that the background check hasn't been done but it's in the process of being done," Courtley said. "He may have started out with an interim clearance and a background check should have been done." The former SEAL says just running Alexis' fingerprints would have turned up his arrest record. In Seattle, he fired several shots into the tires of a car during an altercation over construction near where he lived in 2004. There was also a weapons incident in Texas in 2010.

Both you and Selene were speculating based on early reports which often contain incomplete or incorrect statements. Even after a second shooter was ruled out, Washington Mayor Vincent Gray referred to that possibility.

Aaron Alexis did not use someone else's ID. He had his own.

His arrest records should have been easy to find. They included firearms.

As for how he got on the base, to say that security was lax would be bitter. Just to say, when I was in school in Ann Arbor 2005-2010, I always looked for security guards on duty around town. The EPA has an automotive emissions testing lab with contract security. I got an interview inside and really, they test car exhausts. But the (armed) guards also opened all the trunks of all the cars, inspected all the cargo of all the trucks. Just what you would expect. So, I don't know. Here in Austin, I cannot apply to work as a security guard for the Veterans Administration because I am not licensed for a firearm. The VA. Armed guards. Go figure...

I am at a complete loss.

[Selene]

Daunce, you have been having a nice chat with Selene. I have the same questions that you do. This is from this morning's CNN.com:

What we don't know: But Alexis also had a "pattern of misconduct" and an arrest record. So, how did he get security clearance? Former Navy SEAL Cade Courtley says a poor or incomplete background check is to blame. "Most people when they get into that, they are given an interim clearance and that means that the background check hasn't been done but it's in the process of being done," Courtley said. "He may have started out with an interim clearance and a background check should have been done." The former SEAL says just running Alexis' fingerprints would have turned up his arrest record. In Seattle, he fired several shots into the tires of a car during an altercation over construction near where he lived in 2004. There was also a weapons incident in Texas in 2010.

Both you and Selene were speculating based on early reports which often contain incomplete or incorrect statements. Even after a second shooter was ruled out, Washington Mayor Vincent Gray referred to that possibility.

Aaron Alexis did not use someone else's ID. He had his own.

His arrest records should have been easy to find. They included firearms.

As for how he got on the base, to say that security was lax would be bitter. Just to say, when I was in school in Ann Arbor 2005-2010, I always looked for security guards on duty around town. The EPA has an automotive emissions testing lab with contract security. I got an interview inside and really, they test car exhausts. But the (armed) guards also opened all the trunks of all the cars, inspected all the cargo of all the trucks. Just what you would expect. So, I don't know. Here in Austin, I cannot apply to work as a security guard for the Veterans Administration because I am not licensed for a firearm. The VA. Armed guards. Go figure...

I am at a complete loss.

As I am. My uncle was head of security at NYU Medical in Manhattan. One of his directives from the administration was to cut out drugs being smuggled into the hospital[which I always find amusing].

He began a "covered" investigation and discovered that the main source were the doctors. He directed that the administration order the security searching of the doctors.

He never heard another word about stopping the flow again.

A...

[Selene]

IF this AP story proves to be accurate, how good is any background check?

WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. law enforcement officials are telling The Associated Press that the Navy contractor identified as the gunman in the mass shootings at the Washington Navy Yard had been suffering a host of serious mental issues, including paranoia and a sleep disorder. He also had been hearing voices in his head, the officials said.

Aaron Alexis, 34, had been treated since August by the Veterans Administration for his mental problems, the officials said. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the criminal investigation in the case was continuing. The Navy had not declared him mentally unfit, which would have rescinded a security clearance that Alexis had from his earlier time in the Navy Reserves.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NAVY_YARD_SHOOTING_GUNMAN_MENTAL_HEALTH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-09-17-08-03-32

[syrakusos]

"He also had been hearing voices in his head, the officials said."

And who does not?

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

"He also had been hearing voices in his head, the officials said."

And who does not?

Michael,

True.

Apropos, the first rule of bonding with a target in persuasion is to join in the conversation already happening in the target's mind rather than introduce a new conversation. There's an entire field of study devoted to figuring out what that ongoing conversation is (among which is psychographics).

EDIT: But I guess a serious problem starts when many voices start yapping inside.

Michael

[caroljane]

This reminds me of that heroic school worker who talked the strange kid with the rifle out of shooting up the school.

Also of the ongoing conversation I could enter into seamlessly with my mother, when she was ill, enjoying her inventiveness and reassuring her momentary anxieties, feeling for once I could be as useful, as giving to her as she always was to me.