Bizarre Anti-statist "Sovereign Citizen" crazies plot terrorism

[Jerry Biggers]

A bunch of crackpots associated with (or claiming to be) supporters/members of the "Sovereign Citizen" movement have got themselves arrested (after a police "sting" infiltration) for allegedly plotting assassinations of police in Las Vegas. See thebelow link to the Wikipedia article on "Sovereign Citizen" movement.

Despite their name (which is deceptive - they are only against what they call the ZOG - "Zionist Occupational Government". As for their view of the correct role of the State - one of their heroes is Adolph Hitler). This is the same movement or ideology that spawned the Posse Comitatus and similar Christian Identity groups, starting in the late 1960s, some of which used terrorist tactics such as robbing banks to finance their movement (see the article).

What does this have to do with Rand and Objectivism? Nothing. But expect to see the MSM, particularly MSNBC, try to make a link to libertarian and Objectivist anti-statist views. Count on it.

By the way, there is an ironic twist to that the MSM will very likely ignore: Christian Identity movement authors have named Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged as being part of the Zionist conspiracy for worldwide government. That's right. They have "decoded" Atlas Shrugged, which they claim is actually the manual for Zionist world supremacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Citizen_Movement

[Selene]

Well, you know she was born Jewish...I'm just saying...you never know with THEM!!!

Me and my cat know about THEM!!!

[Samson Corwell]

One strange thing I've noticed is that the Extreme Right and the Extreme Left have strains of anti-Semitism and that Jews are the cornerstone of almost any complex conspiracy theory. My theory is that this is because Judaism didn't have religious restrictions on lending, hence becoming the people to set up the first banking institutions in Europe. The suspicion that Jewish people are somehow the men behind the curtain has its roots in this, I believe.

[Brant Gaede]

One strange thing I've noticed is that the Extreme Right and the Extreme Left have strains of anti-Semitism and that Jews are the cornerstone of almost any complex conspiracy theory. My theory is that this is because Judaism didn't have religious restrictions on lending, hence becoming the people to set up the first banking institutions in Europe. The suspicion that Jewish people are somehow the men behind the curtain has its roots in this, I believe.

The majority likes to scapegoat a minority. Not being individualists it's a collective majority beating on a collective minority that has a hard time fighting back.

--Brant

call it bullying

[Reidy]

You might find, in some media outlet or another, anecdotal corroborations of the prediction in #1, but I predict that it won't really get off the ground, as a similar move with the John Birch Society did fifty or so years ago. Let us know what turns up.

[BaalChatzaf]

One strange thing I've noticed is that the Extreme Right and the Extreme Left have strains of anti-Semitism and that Jews are the cornerstone of almost any complex conspiracy theory. My theory is that this is because Judaism didn't have religious restrictions on lending, hence becoming the people to set up the first banking institutions in Europe. The suspicion that Jewish people are somehow the men behind the curtain has its roots in this, I believe.

No restrictions???? I ti against Jewish Law for a Jew to lend to a Jew charging interest.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[Kyle Jacob Biodrowski]

Me thinks 4chan may have had a hand in this.

[Samson Corwell]

One strange thing I've noticed is that the Extreme Right and the Extreme Left have strains of anti-Semitism and that Jews are the cornerstone of almost any complex conspiracy theory. My theory is that this is because Judaism didn't have religious restrictions on lending, hence becoming the people to set up the first banking institutions in Europe. The suspicion that Jewish people are somehow the men behind the curtain has its roots in this, I believe.

No restrictions???? I ti against Jewish Law for a Jew to lend to a Jew charging interest.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Well, I did learn it from the History Channel.

Wouldn't the Jew charging interest also be same Jew that's doing the lending, though?

[Samson Corwell]

You might find, in some media outlet or another, anecdotal corroborations of the prediction in #1, but I predict that it won't really get off the ground, as a similar move with the John Birch Society did fifty or so years ago. Let us know what turns up.

Birchers are nuts!

[Selene]

You might find, in some media outlet or another, anecdotal corroborations of the prediction in #1, but I predict that it won't really get off the ground, as a similar move with the John Birch Society did fifty or so years ago. Let us know what turns up.

Birchers are nuts!

How so? Here is what they state that they stand for:

Mission

To bring about less government, more responsibility, and — with God's help — a better world by providing leadership, education, and organized volunteer action in accordance with moral and Constitutional principles.

Preserving Individual Rights & National Independence

"These United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States … We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

— Declaration of Independence, 1776

The Declaration of Independence established the independence of both the original 13 American colonies and the United States of America that they together formed a decade later.

The Declaration proclaimed that our personal rights come from God, not from government.

The John Birch Society endorses the timeless principles of the Declaration of Independence. The Society also labors to warn against and expose the forces that seek to abolish U.S. independence, build a world government, or otherwise undermine our personal liberties and national independence.

Restoring the Constitution

"That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed." — Declaration of Independence, 1776

The Constitution of the United States of America instituted the government that secures our God-given rights.

The John Birch Society endorses the U.S. Constitution as the foundation of our national government, and works toward educating and activating Americans to abide by the original intent of the Founding Fathers. We seek to awaken a sleeping and apathetic people concerning the designs of those who are working to destroy our constitutional Republic.

A...

[Brant Gaede]

The JBS was demonized by the left from the beginning to marginalize it and any threat to the left's political-cultural dominance. That Mr. Welch was a candy manufacturer made it easier for these snobs already into denigrating businessmen even more than Nazis and communists hardly ever. Equating business with the Mafia (The Godfather) was their way of complimenting businessmen.

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Me thinks 4chan may have had a hand in this.

Kyle,

Heh.

And here I thought you were an innocent little thing...

Michael

[Kyle Jacob Biodrowski]

Me thinks 4chan may have had a hand in this.

Kyle,

Heh.

And here I thought you were an innocent little thing...

Michael

You have much to learn.

[Jerry Biggers]

I don't hold with some of the Birch Society's "explanation" of advancing collectivism, such as promoted in Gary Allen's book, "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" (e.g. Revilo Oliver's infamous explanation, "Communism is not a philosophy in which men believe, but a conspiracy in which men participate." [ultimately, Professor Oliver went even further off the deep end, blaming it all on the Jews, and Welch expelled him from the Board of the JBS, and from participation in any JBS-sponsored events]). However, there is a Grand Canyon-size gap between any of the JBS views and that of the "Sovereign Citizens." The latter is much more closely identified with "Christian Identity" movement and its neo-Nazi allies. Prod these people and it becomes crystal clear that the appellation, "neo," is not needed, as Adolph Hitler is one of their heroes.

JBS, to their credit, keeps a wide gulf between themselves and "Sovereign Citizen" - "Christian Identity" types. To try to make that equation is as erroneous as claiming that Soviet Union-type Communists are the same as Western European Social Democrats. They are not.

[Francisco Ferrer]

Thank you. That needed to be said.

In the 1950s and early 60s, the JBS was the great bête noire of the liberal media and has never fully been able to restore its reputation after the storm of insults and false accusations.

It didn't help that the organ of establishment conservatism, National Review, read the Birchers out of the movement around the same time and in much the same manner as it booted out Ayn Rand and other godless or extreme libertarians.

Visit the JBS website. The society stands for reducing the size of government, sound money and individual responsibility. There is not a whiff of racism.

However, you will find a nice response to the Mark Levin Con-con idea.

[Reidy]

So far the facts have borne out my prediction in #5. The lengthliest discussion I've seen of the sovereign citizen movement is here on this thread.

[Jerry Biggers]

Thank you. That needed to be said.

In the 1950s and early 60s, the JBS was the great bête noire of the liberal media and has never fully been able to restore its reputation after the storm of insults and false accusations.

It didn't help that the organ of establishment conservatism, National Review, read the Birchers out of the movement around the same time and in much the same manner as it booted out Ayn Rand and other godless or extreme libertarians.

Visit the JBS website. The society stands for reducing the size of government, sound money and individual responsibility. There is not a whiff of racism.

However, you will find a nice response to the Mark Levin Con-con idea.

Unfortunately for the JBS, the "Founder" (that was the title that he preferred) Robert Welch, had privately published an extended "letter" (several hundred pages -most people would describe that as a "book") documenting what a terrible President that Eisenhower was. But he went much further, labeling him as "a conscious and dedicated agent of the communist conspiracy, serving its masters for all of his adult life." (slight paraphrase) that he sent around to whom he presumed were his confidants. Nevertheless, the book was leaked to the liberal press, which ran with the story that "Welch thinks Eisenhower was a commie!"

Welch tried to defend himself by publishing it as a book, "The Politician," and rewriting the incriminating passages, replacing "communist conspiracy". with "Liberal Establishment." In the end, Welch's "letter, the resulting liberal press furor, and National Review condemning its leadership, greatly reduced the size and effectiveness of the organization.

Ludwig von Mises was on the initial "Policy Board of Advisors," and did not ask to be removed. However, there is little resemblance between JBS official publications and Mises' books.