public unions versus the public

[caroljane]

Consider that the lice and parasites too are evolving. Where once they offered themselves to be consumed to sustain the body, yet mindlessly fed off that body until it died, they now have made the connection that it is in their interest to keep the body alive.

I do not know about the US, but union-mgmt. relations have gone through significant changes here in the past two decades, from the traditional confrontational model towards a more cooperative one. The basic realities remain the same but we see them in the light of the times.

[moralist]

Moralist, just curious - do acquaintances in real life ever describe you as "smug"?

How could they when I only interact with people who are as smug or more smug than I am.

I assume you are referring to your interactors in real life.

Of course. This is obviously not interacting in real life. Fact to face in the real world is interacting in real life. This is virtual interactive public "television".

And by "smug" I mean American Capitalist enterpreneurs who captain their own ships and know how to navigate the economic seas. So I can understand how being centered certain competent and decisive can come off as being smug.

This is why I like Ayn Rand's inspiring protagonists. They possess all of those qualities in high spades.

[caroljane]

This is semantics, at the intersection of interaction. There is a subjective line between the buoyant matter-of-fact confidence in one's own abilities, and the enjoyment of one's hard-earned successes amongst peers -- and blanket confirmation of one's own elite status, and contempt of those who have not achieved it.

as I said, entirely subjective.

[Robert Baratheon]

Consider that the lice and parasites too are evolving. Where once they offered themselves to be consumed to sustain the body, yet mindlessly fed off that body until it died, they now have made the connection that it is in their interest to keep the body alive.

I do not know about the US, but union-mgmt. relations have gone through significant changes here in the past two decades, from the traditional confrontational model towards a more cooperative one. The basic realities remain the same but we see them in the light of the times.

One obstacle to enlightened evolution of the organized labor movement, at least in the United States, is that social interest group leaders - and labor leaders in particular - justify their own existence (and large salaries) through the prolongation of intense and highly visible conflict. When everyone is getting along swimmingly in a workplace, it isn't obvious why the workers are paying $500-1000 every year for union representation from a gang of tattoo-ed, potty-mouthed ex-Teamsters. Thus, it's easy to understand why unions are in the habit of "drumming up" controversy during amiable periods by engaging in yelling-matches, pickets, grievance-mongering, and incendiary e-mail blasts to convince their members they're fighting the good fight on their behalf against the Great Satan of management.

I work for some of the nicest, most reasonable people in management I've ever met, and our union spews venom at them constantly on the basis that they are supposedly racist, classist, sexist, or what have you, none of which is even remotely accurate. Since union membership is voluntary here, most of their members have fled (thank goodness I don't have to pay those people), but they still have their hardcore members from the good old days who share a cult-like devotion to their antagonist status.

I'm reminded of the Dungeons and Dragons fantasy game, where if your character dies, you can begin climbing up a new class tree from the depths of the underworld. So it is with the union in my workplace - once a worker is blackballed due to gross incompetence or unprofessional behavior, they start over and advance up the union ladder by becoming the the most vicious hellraiser they can.

[Mikee]

Consider that the lice and parasites too are evolving. Where once they offered themselves to be consumed to sustain the body, yet mindlessly fed off that body until it died, they now have made the connection that it is in their interest to keep the body alive.

I do not know about the US, but union-mgmt. relations have gone through significant changes here in the past two decades, from the traditional confrontational model towards a more cooperative one. The basic realities remain the same but we see them in the light of the times.

A more accurate analogy would be cancer. Referring to public unions as parasites is an insult to evolved species: fleas, ticks, bedbugs, mosquitoes, etc. And yes, cancers continue growing and eventually kill the host. You cannot define an individual with cancer as "healthy" by any stretch of the imagination.

[caroljane]

Analogies in themselves are perilous. I personally would not devise one in which two groups of humans existed only in order to exterminate each other,

[caroljane]

Consider that the lice and parasites too are evolving. Where once they offered themselves to be consumed to sustain the body, yet mindlessly fed off that body until it died, they now have made the connection that it is in their interest to keep the body alive.

I do not know about the US, but union-mgmt. relations have gone through significant changes here in the past two decades, from the traditional confrontational model towards a more cooperative one. The basic realities remain the same but we see them in the light of the times.

One obstacle to enlightened evolution of the organized labor movement, at least in the United States, is that social interest group leaders - and labor leaders in particular - justify their own existence (and large salaries) through the prolongation of intense and highly visible conflict. When everyone is getting along swimmingly in a workplace, it isn't obvious why the workers are paying $500-1000 every year for union representation from a gang of tattoo-ed, potty-mouthed ex-Teamsters. Thus, it's easy to understand why unions are in the habit of "drumming up" controversy during amiable periods by engaging in yelling-matches, pickets, grievance-mongering, and incendiary e-mail blasts to convince their members they're fighting the good fight on their behalf against the Great Satan of management.

I work for some of the nicest, most reasonable people in management I've ever met, and our union spews venom at them constantly on the basis that they are supposedly racist, classist, sexist, or what have you, none of which is even remotely accurate. Since union membership is voluntary here, most of their members have fled (thank goodness I don't have to pay those people), but they still have their hardcore members from the good old days who share a cult-like devotion to their antagonist status.

I'm reminded of the Dungeons and Dragons fantasy game, where if your character dies, you can begin climbing up a new class tree from the depths of the underworld. So it is with the union in my workplace - once a worker is blackballed due to gross incompetence or unprofessional behavior, they start over and advance up the union ladder by becoming the the most vicious hellraiser they can.

Law firms have unions???

Or do you work in the legal department of a company.

Not to worry, they will soon be all gone. They do sound kind of colourful though, light relief as it were.

[Mikee]

Analogies in themselves are perilous. I personally would not devise one in which two groups of humans existed only in order to exterminate each other,

Analogies are very useful in problem solving. You have to take them as they fit. In this case, however, the goal of the free marketeer is not to exterminate the cancer cells but to tell them "get a real job". Unfortunately the reverse is true from the cancer side: "I don't care if you die" [observe the "negotiations" in the SF bay area Bart union dispute]. And Detroit.

[caroljane]

Er, quite.

Analogies are freaking useless in most real life situations, including the one you reference.

[Mikee]

Er, quite.

Analogies are freaking useless in most real life situations, including the one you reference.

Sez you.

[caroljane]

And sez me right

[Mikee]

I'm guessing you don't think mathematics is a useful real world tool either... Or the #1 rule of problem solving "Understand the system". Oh yeah, that would require checking one's premises.

[caroljane]

What in the world does it have to do with mathematics?

We are talking about fluid human situations without fixed variables here.

Get a grip.

[Mikee]

Just as I suspected: completely clueless.

[caroljane]

There are clues not dreamed of in your philosophy, Horace

[Mikee]

Whatever makes you feel good...

[caroljane]

.. is moral

Hemigway

-

[moralist]

This is semantics, at the intersection of interaction. There is a subjective line between the buoyant matter-of-fact confidence in one's own abilities, and the enjoyment of one's hard-earned successes amongst peers -- and blanket confirmation of one's own elite status, and contempt of those who have not achieved it.

Zero sum class envy is a product of the left, so your comment is noted and the reason you made it is understood.

[moralist]

Referring to public unions as parasites is an insult to evolved species...

Come on, Mikee, don't hold back.

Tell everyone here how you really feel.

(by the way, I totally agree)

Greg

[caroljane]

lol just read the last page and I think it is game set and match to me.

Just my opinion of course

[moralist]

lol just read the last page and I think it is game set and match to me.

Just my opinion of course

You swing a mean racquet.

[Mikee]

lol just read the last page and I think it is game set and match to me.

Just my opinion of course

Delusions of grandeur. Typical leftist tactic, talk nonsense until your opponent leaves the playing field out of boredom or disgust, then claim victory.

[caroljane]

lol just read the last page and I think it is game set and match to me.

Just my opinion of course

Delusions of grandeur. Typical leftist tactic, talk nonsense until your opponent leaves the playing field out of boredom or disgust, then claim victory.

Well, it's worked so far.

Btw Mike, somewhere else you said I would beat you over the head with a hockey stick -- c'mon, you know I would never do that.

Do you know how much replacing those things costs? They get broken enough in regular play - the hardness of your head would have me penniless in no time.

[Mikee]

Oh please. Another leftist strategy: keep repeating the same nonsense until people who aren't paying attention believe it.

I never said you'd beat me over the head with a hockey stick [i'd take it away from you and spank you with it], I said something like if I really didn't like someone I'd put them in a cage with you and a hockey stick.

I do have a hard head and I have the scars to prove it. You got that right.

[caroljane]

You are right, it was a comment of |Kyle's, I apologize for the misattribution.

And I would never lay a hand on him either. I am anti-violence.