Trickle Down Government

[caroljane]

Better make it simpler than the sophisticated epistemological samples above however. You know how dumb and childlike the sheeple are.;

Sophisticated? Mmm, I detect sarcasm. Are you trying to say the video is childish? C’mon, don’t hold back, let's hear it.

I know how different it is in Canada, up there you never have to worry about suddenly finding yourself at the mercy of a bureaucrat with a full bladder. Try mentally putting yourself in the place of a 21st century Yank, I know you can do it...it's just like how you put yourself into the mind of a 19th century Englishwoman when you reread (for the umpteenth time) all about Dorothea in Middlemarch.

For the same reasons I didn't like your original, daunce was delighted by it (probably wet herself). She loathes Romney, he has committed the unpardonable sin of achieving wealth and success. She is smug in the certainty that her pet Obama, the "people's choice" (poet's choice?), will be re-elected. Her characterization of "sheeple" is most certainly her opinion of Romney supporters. Including those on this forum.

I was not delighted with the original, if ytou mean the Shogun clip, I loved Shogun and remember the scene. I did not click on it or any of the other images. My comment was as 9th inferred about childish urological humourin general which I dislike. Although I do know a really funny British joke about a milkman.

I do not loathe Romney, I do not loathe anyone for achieving wealth and success, and I defy you to find anywhere I ever intimated that I did.

Perhaps you don't hate Romney or anyone for achieving wealth and success. I have a problem with your socialism. I believe if you were not keeping yourself in a state of willful ignorance you could not remain a socialist. Perhaps you don't "hate" Romney because socialists need people like Romney, they need people with ability and ambition to finance their schemes. But they also have to hold them up at the point of a gun to get this financing. To avoid facing this fact you say "I hate guns", well "handguns" you say. You justify your socialism by thinking that people of achievement and wealth don't "care" about other people, they don't have "feelings" except for their own selfish interests. This is analogous to artists who say about scientists that they are unfeeling about the beauty of nature, they are only interested in facts and statistics and numbers and experiments and theories. As if, as Richard Feynman pointed out, having the curiosity about nature to think about it enough to actually know something about it means you can't appreciate the beauty. The contrary is true. The same for politics and economics, if you took the trouble to actually read the arguments and analysis the results of these "socialist experiments" of the last hundred years you would realize the misery they cause far outweighs any individual gains you might be able to find here and there. You dismiss intellectuals on the right (and objectivists) as unfeeling about other people, only interested in their own theories or profits or the status quo. You are a master at wordcraft, quite amazing, I have deep admiration for your abilities, your poems and stories, your sense of humor. But when referencing anything serious I hear mocking and derision. Those are my impressions and the reason for my criticism.

Mikee, I have answered this in part on the other thread; I will just say briefly that art and science, are not analogous with politics and economics, as both latter disciplines acknowledge that they are not sciences, and only arts in the hands of those who wield them.

And I thank you so much for your compliment on my writing. I greatly enjoy writing on here, and it is wonderful to think that other members enjoy it also,

[Mikee]

Better make it simpler than the sophisticated epistemological samples above however. You know how dumb and childlike the sheeple are.;

Sophisticated? Mmm, I detect sarcasm. Are you trying to say the video is childish? C’mon, don’t hold back, let's hear it.

I know how different it is in Canada, up there you never have to worry about suddenly finding yourself at the mercy of a bureaucrat with a full bladder. Try mentally putting yourself in the place of a 21st century Yank, I know you can do it...it's just like how you put yourself into the mind of a 19th century Englishwoman when you reread (for the umpteenth time) all about Dorothea in Middlemarch.

For the same reasons I didn't like your original, daunce was delighted by it (probably wet herself). She loathes Romney, he has committed the unpardonable sin of achieving wealth and success. She is smug in the certainty that her pet Obama, the "people's choice" (poet's choice?), will be re-elected. Her characterization of "sheeple" is most certainly her opinion of Romney supporters. Including those on this forum.

I was not delighted with the original, if ytou mean the Shogun clip, I loved Shogun and remember the scene. I did not click on it or any of the other images. My comment was as 9th inferred about childish urological humourin general which I dislike. Although I do know a really funny British joke about a milkman.

I do not loathe Romney, I do not loathe anyone for achieving wealth and success, and I defy you to find anywhere I ever intimated that I did.

Perhaps you don't hate Romney or anyone for achieving wealth and success. I have a problem with your socialism. I believe if you were not keeping yourself in a state of willful ignorance you could not remain a socialist. Perhaps you don't "hate" Romney because socialists need people like Romney, they need people with ability and ambition to finance their schemes. But they also have to hold them up at the point of a gun to get this financing. To avoid facing this fact you say "I hate guns", well "handguns" you say. You justify your socialism by thinking that people of achievement and wealth don't "care" about other people, they don't have "feelings" except for their own selfish interests. This is analogous to artists who say about scientists that they are unfeeling about the beauty of nature, they are only interested in facts and statistics and numbers and experiments and theories. As if, as Richard Feynman pointed out, having the curiosity about nature to think about it enough to actually know something about it means you can't appreciate the beauty. The contrary is true. The same for politics and economics, if you took the trouble to actually read the arguments and analysis the results of these "socialist experiments" of the last hundred years you would realize the misery they cause far outweighs any individual gains you might be able to find here and there. You dismiss intellectuals on the right (and objectivists) as unfeeling about other people, only interested in their own theories or profits or the status quo. You are a master at wordcraft, quite amazing, I have deep admiration for your abilities, your poems and stories, your sense of humor. But when referencing anything serious I hear mocking and derision. Those are my impressions and the reason for my criticism.

Mikee, I have answered this in part on the other thread; I will just say briefly that art and science, are not analogous with politics and economics, as both latter disciplines acknowledge that they are not sciences, and only arts in the hands of those who wield them.

And I thank you so much for your compliment on my writing. I greatly enjoy writing on here, and it is wonderful to think that other members enjoy it also,

You know perfectly well I did not say art and science are analogous with politics and economics but I was pointing out an analogous situation between art and science to a similar situation in politics and economics. You conveniently dismiss thinking about what I said or replying to it by lecturing me about something else. Isn't this the "straw man" fallacy? Anyway, I'm on a short break at work and cannot get back to OL until tonight. I do enjoy your writing. You are slippery-er than an eel however. Self preservation I'm sure.

[caroljane]

Well Mikee, I can tell you right now that that straw man story is a lie and a calumny, Canadian women do not construct straw men around harvest time for their own selfish pleasure, especially not in urban areas, and we do not burn them up afterwards in wicker baskets or anything.

Eel, cockle and mussel season is later in the year.

[BaalChatzaf]

If the US goes down it will be the greatest tragedy since before the Dark Ages

with horrible consequences around the world. We may look back at WWII

with fondness.

Dennis

I do. It is the last war that we won.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[caroljane]

If the US goes down it will be the greatest tragedy since before the Dark Ages

with horrible consequences around the world. We may look back at WWII

with fondness.

Dennis

I do. It is the last war that we won.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Fondness? I can't, because it took my father's youth, although it left him alive, and obviously I would not exist if he had been killed before he could marry. And this war was so woefully necessary, the world if Germany had won would have been so evil, so wicked that no sane person would want to live in it.

But you do remember Baal, that "we" was not America alone. You joined in 1941, against strenuous internal opposition, the British and Commonwealth forces who had been fighting and dying for two years.

[BaalChatzaf]

If the US goes down it will be the greatest tragedy since before the Dark Ages

with horrible consequences around the world. We may look back at WWII

with fondness.

Dennis

I do. It is the last war that we won.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Fondness? I can't, because it took my father's youth, although it left him alive, and obviously I would not exist if he had been killed before he could marry. And this war was so woefully necessary, the world if Germany had won would have been so evil, so wicked that no sane person would want to live in it.

But you do remember Baal, that "we" was not America alone. You joined in 1941, against strenuous internal opposition, the British and Commonwealth forces who had been fighting and dying for two years.

Britain had to fight for her life because the likes of Neville Chamberlain kissed Hitler's ass. The war need not have happened

the ruling class of Britain had anything left of its integrity. It took a drunkard imperialist, Winston Churchill, to give Britain the

spine she needed.

Ordinary Brits are as brave and tough as they come. They have to cope with the wreck and ruin created by their degenerate

ruling class.

Even so, for Britain to survive the U.S. had to enter the war on her side.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[dennislmay]

If the US goes down it will be the greatest tragedy since before the Dark Ages

with horrible consequences around the world. We may look back at WWII

with fondness.

Dennis

I do. It is the last war that we won.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Fondness? I can't, because it took my father's youth, although it left him alive, and obviously I would not exist if he had been killed before he could marry. And this war was so woefully necessary, the world if Germany had won would have been so evil, so wicked that no sane person would want to live in it.

But you do remember Baal, that "we" was not America alone. You joined in 1941, against strenuous internal opposition, the British and Commonwealth forces who had been fighting and dying for two years.

Britain had to fight for her life because the likes of Neville Chamberlain kissed Hitler's ass. The war need not have happened

the ruling class of Britain had anything left of its integrity. It took a drunkard imperialist, Winston Churchill, to give Britain the

spine she needed.

Ordinary Brits are as brave and tough as they come. They have to cope with the wreck and ruin created by their degenerate

ruling class.

Even so, for Britain to survive the U.S. had to enter the war on her side.

Ba'al Chatzaf

What I find interesting is that although I worked in US Air Force R&D in weapons systems design in two distinct fields I had no idea how advanced some of the German and Japanese military R&D was during WWII until just the last couple years. This came from watching The Military Channel on satellite and follow up on the Internet. The Air Force had [has?] loads of documentation on the history of military technology but little internal training on it and you had to do a lot of research to access any of what did exist - and much more has been lost over time.

In hindsight there is little question that WWII could have been lost due to either German or Japanese technological advances.

Our current clueless [and/or duplicitous] administration is ready to throw out the technological advantages keeping the West safe. Without it we would be done in a generation.

Sad that the US could be defeated with 1945 [and older] technology for lack of maintaining advanced weapons technology.

Dennis

[dennislmay]

If the US goes down it will be the greatest tragedy since before the Dark Ages

with horrible consequences around the world. We may look back at WWII

with fondness.

Dennis

I do. It is the last war that we won.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Fondness? I can't, because it took my father's youth, although it left him alive, and obviously I would not exist if he had been killed before he could marry. And this war was so woefully necessary, the world if Germany had won would have been so evil, so wicked that no sane person would want to live in it.

But you do remember Baal, that "we" was not America alone. You joined in 1941, against strenuous internal opposition, the British and Commonwealth forces who had been fighting and dying for two years.

Britain had to fight for her life because the likes of Neville Chamberlain kissed Hitler's ass. The war need not have happened

the ruling class of Britain had anything left of its integrity. It took a drunkard imperialist, Winston Churchill, to give Britain the

spine she needed.

Ordinary Brits are as brave and tough as they come. They have to cope with the wreck and ruin created by their degenerate

ruling class.

Even so, for Britain to survive the U.S. had to enter the war on her side.

Ba'al Chatzaf

What I find interesting is that although I worked in US Air Force R&D in weapons systems design in two distinct fields I had no idea how advanced some of the German and Japanese military R&D was during WWII until just the last couple years. This came from watching The Military Channel on satellite and follow up on the Internet. The Air Force had [has?] loads of documentation on the history of military technology but little internal training on it and you had to do a lot of research to access any of what did exist - and much more has been lost over time.

In hindsight there is little question that WWII could have been lost due to either German or Japanese technological advances.

Our current clueless [and/or duplicitous] administration is ready to throw out the technological advantages keeping the West safe. Without it we would be done in a generation.

Sad that the US could be defeated with 1945 [and older] technology for lack of maintaining advanced weapons technology.

Dennis

I wrote: "In hindsight there is little question that WWII could have been lost due to either German or Japanese technological advances."

Some examples I have seen floated the last few years:

Building more 4-engine long range bombers instead of short range 2-engine bombers would have prevented the Soviets from arming

up as they did and given at least an extra year for jet fighters, jet bombers, A-bomb, and V-weapons development.

Earlier fielding of the German assault rifle would have turned the tide against Russia on the ground.

Not adapting jet fighters for ground attack would have lead to more fruitful gains.

Not going with superguns and tanks too large and complex to field would have allowed better use of resources.

The Japanese had advanced fighters about to go into full production and at least dirty A-bombs in testing at the end of the war.

The Germans had several successful designs of anti-ship cruise missiles in development. If D-day had been delayed a year

it is possible vast numbers of ships could have been sunk during the crossing.

In both conventional arms and advanced developments there were many lucky turning points where the Germans did not

take full advantage of what they had. Neither the Germans nor Japanese had any idea their codes were so thoroughly

broken - had that leaked it would have made a huge difference.

Both in WWII and during the Cold War the end of the West was close at hand and we only squeaked by.

Disarming now as Obama intends is suicidal.

Dennis

[Brant Gaede]

All this is about war prolongation, not war losing by the allies. Hitler threw away army after army. Our inferior tanks lost time after time to superior German ones but that didn't stop Patton. Great Britain was basically a huge air base to hit Germany from. Germany had nothing like it to hit the U.S., a geologically much bigger country.

Basically, Hitler lost WWII when he attacked the Soviet Union and declared war on the United States. If the war had gone on longer in Europe we might have dropped those atom bombs on him first, saving Japan for later. The B-29s could have been used in Europe replacing the B-17. Japan would have starved with a naval blockade.

The worst setback would have been a failed Normandy invasion. That was close as it was.

--Brant

the death and devastation of that war going on for a few more years would have been much, much higher than it was and why it was not fought in any wishy-washy manner and why Hitler was the allies' single greatest ally after the U.S.--and the U.S. might have been economically crushed the way Britain was, but it would have recovered in a way that Britain with its stupid socialism didn't

[dennislmay]

Our inferior tanks lost time after time to superior German ones but that didn't stop Paton.

Inferior except that they could go anywhere, could be maintained, and could be produced in large numbers overwhelming the

superior German tanks.

Great Britain was basically a huge air base to hit Germany from. Germany had nothing like it to hit the U.S., a geologically much bigger country.

Germany was in the middle of developing intercontinental jet bombers when the war ended. They already had prototype intercontinental range cargo supply planes. Atomic bombs on those bombers and the East coast would have been toast.

We are indeed fortunate that HItler believe his own BS and lost the war largely by himself.

Dennis

[Brant Gaede]

Our inferior tanks lost time after time to superior German ones but that didn't stop Paton.

Inferior except that they could go anywhere, could be maintained, and could be produced in large numbers overwhelming the

superior German tanks.

Great Britain was basically a huge air base to hit Germany from. Germany had nothing like it to hit the U.S., a geologically much bigger country.

Germany was in the middle of developing intercontinental jet bombers when the war ended. They already had prototype intercontinental range cargo supply planes. Atomic bombs on those bombers and the East coast would have been toast.

We are indeed fortunate that HItler believe his own BS and lost the war largely by himself.

Dennis

None of those bombers would have gotten through. There was also the problem of engine reliability. Our post-war B-47 required refueling. So, they wouldn't have even reached here. As for German atomic bombs--they were years behind.

--Brant

basically the U.S. beat up Germany with its right hand while pulverizing Japan with its left: Great Britain manipulated and used the U.S. to compensate for its lack of continuing European dominance with the rise of Germany; Bismark knew what was coming because the North Americans spoke English; it wasn't all Hitler's ad hoc blundering; the U.S. has been the major world player and power since WWI, even when it didn't know that in the 1920s and 30s and the others that didn't know that lost the next war if at war with America; Americans have since used that dominance as a source of phony, moralistic self esteem out of nationalistic tribalization and group identity that even I can't completely shake, seeing clearly from pre neo-con conservative interventionist roots: we are logically at the mercy of power hungry, lusting, pandering, idiot, beholden to the corporations, incompetent rulers, most of them also personally in it for the money and prestige and purblind to the living, breathing, actual reality of it all

[dennislmay]

None of those bombers would have gotten through. There was also the problem of engine reliability. Our post-war B-47 required refueling. So, they wouldn't have even reached here. As for German atomic bombs--they were years behind.

Their jet bomber design was more advanced in several respects than anything the US had for some time - but as you say the engines were still being perfected. Those who have studied the design seemed to think it could reach the US unrefueled in part because of superior aerodynamics. They were behind in atomic bomb work but I am not sure what it means to be years behind given the many approaches that can work - I suspect that several other approaches exist that are not talked about. Fortunately their heavy water efforts were sabotaged at least twice.

The primary lesson I take from military technological history is that technology, supporting tactics, and supporting infrastructure can turn the tide of war in almost anyones favor in a small number of years. Military planners are generally a generation behind in their thinking - fighting the last war as the saying goes. Another lesson I learned from working in military R&D is that during times of real spending it is possible to work 15+ years ahead of publicly known technology. Since the US gutted military R&D spending starting in 1991 I doubt any R&D is much ahead of what is publicly known any more. I see no evidence that anything interesting has happened since I left the Air Force. That doesn't mean interesting things aren't happening somehwere or couldn't in a rapid build up.

Dennis

[Brant Gaede]

As technology advances it becomes more important than the foundation of economic might. Israel is so important to the US reference military R n D as Israel needs it and needs it now.

My uncle was in the AF. Pearl Harbor, Midway, Guadalcanal. B-17 navigator. Attacked by Zeros he was wounded by 20mm exploding cannon shells and still has some shrapnel in his body. He couldn't move so he passed ammo up to the nose gunner, who didn't survive his wounds. The gunner was awarded the DSC. David spend a year in the hospital then flew in B-29s in Korea and B-36s out of Puerto Rico. Silver Star, at least two Purple Hearts, three or more Distinguished Flying Crosses and maybe five Air Medals. 220 combat hours. He's now 94. I visited him in Dayton three weeks ago.

On Guadalcanal a Japanese bomber tended to come over each night and drop a bomb or two and everybody would run and drop into trenches. One evening he turned to the guy next to him and said. "Hi, I'm David Gaede." "I'm David Gaede." They were cousins with different middle names. Made the papers back in the states. I have a photo of them talking with each other. At the age of 24 Dave was an incredibly beautiful young man. When he visited my father's newspaper office in Tucson one of the girls said, "Who was that Greek God?" So many of them didn't come home.

--Brant

[dennislmay]

As technology advances it becomes more important than the foundation of economic might. Israel is so important to the US reference military R n D as Israel needs it and needs it now.

My uncle was in the AF. Pearl Harbor, Midway, Guadalcanal. B-17 navigator. Attacked by Zeros he was wounded by 20mm exploding cannon shells and still has some shrapnel in his body. He couldn't move so he passed ammo up to the nose gunner, who didn't survive his wounds. The gunner was awarded the DSC. David spend a year in the hospital then flew in B-29s in Korea and B-36s out of Puerto Rico. Silver Star, at least two Purple Hearts, three or more Distinguished Flying Crosses and maybe five Air Medals. 220 combat hours. He's now 94. I visited him in Dayton three weeks ago.

On Guadalcanal a Japanese bomber tended to come over each night and drop a bomb or two and everybody would run and drop into trenches. One evening he turned to the guy next to him and said. "Hi, I'm David Gaede." "I'm David Gaede." They were cousins with different middle names. Made the papers back in the states. I have a photo of them talking with each other. At the age of 24 Dave was an incredibly beautiful young man. When he visited my father's newspaper office in Tucson one of the girls said, "Who was that Greek God?" So many of them didn't come home.

--Brant

My father had five first cousins die in WWII - I don't know of any relatives who were in WWII that survived. I worked with two guys in Dayton who were in WWII - one was a P-51 pilot the other was drafted into the German Army at age 13 and was an anti-aircraft gunner in the same place the other guy was flying. Their offices were side by side. The German guy passed away a couple years ago - the pilot was somewhat older and likely died years ago. My father was in the military, I was, two of my first cousins, and one of my 2nd cousins. All were officers except my father who went in at age 17. My father was the only one with combat experience though my cousins wife and one of my first cousins went to Iraq, the other Afghanistan.

Dennis

[BaalChatzaf]

Inferior except that they could go anywhere, could be maintained, and could be produced in large numbers overwhelming the

superior German tanks.

It took 5 Sherman tanks to bring down a Tiger. 4 would be destroyed and the last one made the killing blow. All that was required was the sacrifice of 4 tank crews to take out a Tiger.

ruveyn

[dennislmay]

Inferior except that they could go anywhere, could be maintained, and could be produced in large numbers overwhelming the

superior German tanks.

It took 5 Sherman tanks to bring down a Tiger. 4 would be destroyed and the last one made the killing blow. All that was required was the sacrifice of 4 tank crews to take out a Tiger.

ruveyn

Fortunately there were few Tigers, they were hard to maintain, and they had limited places they could go. The tank battle shows on the Military Channel are interesting. No fun to be on either side in a WWII tank battle. Many Tigers were taken out by air and many more simply had no gas to go anywhere.

Dennis

[Selene]

Folks:

I watched an excellent set of shows on CSPAN from Hillsdale College about WW II. The instructor was excellent and his contention, which was well supported, was that the critical factor that won WW II was that the US established a brilliant resupply chain system that effectively delivered an overwhelming amount of material to the troops.

From ammunition, gasoline, food, medical supplies and toothpaste the supply chain overwhelmed the enemy whose supply chain was worn down by daylight bombing. It is interesting that the Panzers literally ran out of petrol and became stationary targets.

In fact, the only factor that stopped Patton was the "decision" to restrict his fuel.

Adam

[Brant Gaede]

Folks:

I watched an excellent set of shows on CSPAN from Hillsdale College about WW II. The instructor was excellent and his contention, which was well supported, was that the critical factor that won WW II was that the US established a brilliant resupply chain system that effectively delivered an overwhelming amount of material to the troops.

From ammunition, gasoline, food, medical supplies and toothpaste the supply chain overwhelmed the enemy whose supply chain was worn down by daylight bombing. It is interesting that the Panzers literally ran out of petrol and became stationary targets.

In fact, the only factor that stopped Patton was the "decision" to restrict his fuel.

Adam

Those are interesting but inevitable facts in that if the supply chain wasn't working General Marshall would have found people to make it work. Incredible talent went into the war effort. Look at what Frank Capra did. This talent did not countenance bureaucratic obstructionism, especially in a rapidly expanding military.

--Brant

[dennislmay]

Folks:

I watched an excellent set of shows on CSPAN from Hillsdale College about WW II. The instructor was excellent and his contention, which was well supported, was that the critical factor that won WW II was that the US established a brilliant resupply chain system that effectively delivered an overwhelming amount of material to the troops.

From ammunition, gasoline, food, medical supplies and toothpaste the supply chain overwhelmed the enemy whose supply chain was worn down by daylight bombing. It is interesting that the Panzers literally ran out of petrol and became stationary targets.

In fact, the only factor that stopped Patton was the "decision" to restrict his fuel.

Adam

The Military Channel agrees - resupply was key to taking back Europe. When fighting Japan it appeared that attrition of skilled pilots and mechanics cost them both the air and sea.

Dennis

[Selene]

The Military Channel agrees - resupply was key to taking back Europe. When fighting Japan it appeared that attrition of skilled pilots and mechanics cost them both the air and sea.

Dennis

Dennis:

Correct. I should have made that distinction. The Hillsdale College instructor's analysis was limited to the European Theater of Operations. Thanks for the corrections.

Did you ever engage in the Avalon Hill military board games? They were and are brilliant for history, learning about military strategy, force loads, etc.

Adam

[dennislmay]

The Military Channel agrees - resupply was key to taking back Europe. When fighting Japan it appeared that attrition of skilled pilots and mechanics cost them both the air and sea.

Dennis

Dennis:

Correct. I should have made that distinction. The Hillsdale College instructor's analysis was limited to the European Theater of Operations. Thanks for the corrections.

Did you ever engage in the Avalon Hill military board games? They were and are brilliant for history, learning about military strategy, force loads, etc.

Adam

The Military Channel agrees - resupply was key to taking back Europe. When fighting Japan it appeared that attrition of skilled pilots and mechanics cost them both the air and sea.

Dennis

Dennis:

Correct. I should have made that distinction. The Hillsdale College instructor's analysis was limited to the European Theater of Operations. Thanks for the corrections.

Did you ever engage in the Avalon Hill military board games? They were and are brilliant for history, learning about military strategy, force loads, etc.

Adam

The only conventional military gaming I've done was at Squadron Officers School. That is where it became very clear to me that preemptive strikes are the only means for the West to survive many scenarios.

Several years ago I did some of my own military gaming related to the Stealth, Nomadic, Dispersed [sND - my name] strategy [Dan Ust calls Superstealth]. Dan and I are the only ones I've seen discuss it. Basically at some point the only way technological societies can survive WoMD is to be Stealthy, Nomadic, and Dispersed. This is often seen during hot wars but seldom between hot wars. At some point it will have to become a permanent societal lifestyle.

Dennis

[Selene]

The only conventional military gaming I've done was at Squadron Officers School. That is where it became very clear to me that preemptive strikes are the only means for the West to survive many scenarios.

Several years ago I did some of my own military gaming related to the Stealth, Nomadic, Dispersed [sND - my name] strategy [Dan Ust calls Superstealth]. Dan and I are the only ones I've seen discuss it. Basically at some point the only way technological societies can survive WoMD is to be Stealthy, Nomadic, and Dispersed. This is often seen during hot wars but seldom between hot wars. At some point it will have to become a permanent societal lifestyle.

Dennis

Dennis:

I would be very interested in that paradigm. If you can send me any links, or, references to my e-mail which is jgalt44@yahoo.com, I would be quite thankful.

Adam

[dennislmay]

The only conventional military gaming I've done was at Squadron Officers School. That is where it became very clear to me that preemptive strikes are the only means for the West to survive many scenarios.

Several years ago I did some of my own military gaming related to the Stealth, Nomadic, Dispersed [sND - my name] strategy [Dan Ust calls Superstealth]. Dan and I are the only ones I've seen discuss it. Basically at some point the only way technological societies can survive WoMD is to be Stealthy, Nomadic, and Dispersed. This is often seen during hot wars but seldom between hot wars. At some point it will have to become a permanent societal lifestyle.

Dennis

Dennis:

I would be very interested in that paradigm. If you can send me any links, or, references to my e-mail which is jgalt44@yahoo.com, I would be quite thankful.

Adam

On-line discussion is about all there is - Atlantis_II @ Yahoogroups is where most of it would still exist. Dan and I have discussed in a couple other forums. You can do a Google search for SND, Stealth, Nomadic, Dispersed, [with/without comas] and find some of them. Superstealth will find too many unrelated places.

I would be happy to discuss it here again - maybe start a new topic if there is interest. The more places the merrier.

Dennis

[Selene]

I would be happy to discuss it here again - maybe start a new topic if there is interest. The more places the merrier.

Dennis

Dennis:

Agreed. Let me poke around with those search terms for a couple of days and then we can start a thread. I am really busy until the week after the election so let's wait until then to start the thread.

I was somewhat disappointed to see Dan leave OL.

A...

[dennislmay]

I would be happy to discuss it here again - maybe start a new topic if there is interest. The more places the merrier.

Dennis

Dennis:

Agreed. Let me poke around with those search terms for a couple of days and then we can start a thread. I am really busy until the week after the election so let's wait until then to start the thread.

I was somewhat disappointed to see Dan leave OL.

A...

Dan was still at Atlantis_II last time I was there. I believe he is also on Left Libertarian.

Dennis