The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin

[anthony]

I doubt I've been much help there, why. It's just some other ideas that came to mind as I read your comments.

Greg

Well - wow! Greg, you know you're coming over like an Objectivist?

Though I still can't get rid of a mental picture of this consequentialist steering his car by the rear-view mirror...heh.

Thank you - I was being rhetorical btw.

[moralist]

I doubt I've been much help there, why. It's just some other ideas that came to mind as I read your comments.

Greg

Well - wow! Greg, you know you're coming over like an Objectivist?

Though I still can't get rid of a mental picture of this consequentialist steering his car by the rear-view mirror...heh.

Thank you - I was being rhetorical btw.

You're welcome, why...

The qualities I admire most about Ayn Rand's idealized characters are that they steered their own ships, and accepted the responsibility for the consequences of their actions. And so as I do my best to realize those ideals in my own life, the consequences have been far beyond my wildest dreams.

[Xray]

As Heinlein said: An armed society is a polite society.

Ba'al Chatzaf

But does the evidence that we daily get from harsh reality support what Heinlein said?

And in a 'fully armed' society (which seems to have been Heinlein's ideal), it's not politeness that would prevail, but fear.

People would therefore act politely out of fear of being shot.

An armed society is a fearful society imo.

[edited to correct typo]

[Brant Gaede]

As Heinlein said: An armed society is a polite society.

Ba'al Chatzaf

But does the evidence that we daily get from harsh reality support what Heinlein said?

And in a 'fully armed' society (which seems to have been Heinlein's ideal), it's not politeness that would prevail, but fear.

People would therefore act politely out of fear of being shot.

An armed societey is a fearful society imo.

You are both over-generalizing. If you had said he had over-generalized that would have been the proper critique. "Society" is like "reality"--you know it from its particulars--and can be actually neither "armed" nor "polite." That doesn't mean you cannot say it is this or that, but that you get more particular. For instance, the United States is building a domestic army pointed at its own citizens in the name of "security." In this case wrong weapons in the hands of the wrong people. Etc.

--Brant

[caroljane]

In an armed society, the women at least could have hope that all the men they meet are just glad to see them.

-Mae

[George H. Smith]

Yesterday two black teens beat an old white guy (a WWII veteran) to death. So where are the outcries about racially motivated violence? There is as much evidence that this killing was racially motivated as there was in the Martin case, but it's not getting coverage, except on Fox. And where is Obama? Will he point out that the old man could have been his maternal grandfather, as he pointed out that Martin could have been his son?

Like others on OL, I have come to expect all the race-baiting and egregious double-standards, but I've reached a tipping point where all this crap makes me sick.

Ghs

[Brant Gaede]

In an armed society, the women at least could have hope that all the men they meet are just glad to see them.

-Mae

I suggest hoping for something else than men in constant need for masturbation or another outlet. If the man/woman ratio were 1:100, the men could keep them pregnant, but not too happy, but then "glad" would make some sense. (Can you imagine--it's not hard if you try--how impolite those women would be to each other?)

--Brant

[Brant Gaede]

Yesterday two black teens beat an old white guy (a WWII veteran) to death. So where are the outcries about racially motivated violence? There is as much evidence that this killing was racially motivated as there was in the Martin case, but it's not getting coverage, except on Fox. And where is Obama? Will he point out that the old man could have been his maternal grandfather, as he pointed out that Martin could have been his son?

Like others on OL, I have come to expect all the race-baiting and egregious double-standards, but I've reached a tipping point where all this crap makes me sick.

Ghs

I didn't see that story. The story getting some traction is the shot-in-the-back murdered Australian jogger.

--Brant

[Michael Stuart Kelly]

Like others on OL, I have come to expect all the race-baiting and egregious double-standards, but I've reached a tipping point where all this crap makes me sick.

George,

It gets worse. Check this out:

Paula Deen SHOOTS Trayvon Martin

'Paula Deen SHOOTS Trayvon Martin' in new SVU that wraps both scandals into one controversial episode... and Cybill Shepard plays gun-wielding TV chef

August 22, 2013

Daily Mail

From the article:

'Law & Order SVU' is tackling racial profiling head on in an upcoming episode that winds together the controversial Trayvon Martin case and the Paula Deen scandal.

In the episode, Cybill Shepard plays Jolene Castille, a famous southern chef. But instead of making a racial slur, like Deen, she guns down an unarmed, hoodie-wearing black teen she thought was following her on the Upper West Side, mirroring the Trayvon Martin slaying.

According to TV Guide, Castille claims she killed the teen in an act of self-defense...

Jeez...

You can't make this shit up.

I normally like that show.

I wonder when they're going to do a modernized Uncle Tom's Cabin as a miniseries.

Michael

[Mikee]

As Heinlein said: An armed society is a polite society.

Ba'al Chatzaf

But does the evidence that we daily get from harsh reality support what Heinlein said?

And in a 'fully armed' society (which seems to have been Heinlein's ideal), it's not politeness that would prevail, but fear.

People would therefore act politely out of fear of being shot.

An armed societey is a fearful society imo.

Here is a study that suggests gun violence is maximized in a moderate gun control environment and at a minimum at both ends: zero guns or no gun control. The zero guns society would be a totalitarian state, people would have no protection from and could not deter their own government. Any thug good with his fists would be king. There was a reason in the middle ages when the average man was about 5' 6", kings were giants. In feudal japan a samurai could test the sharpness of his blade by cutting down a peasant, with no repercussions. The gun is called "the great equalizer" with good reason.

[Selene]

The Oklahoma shooting is also worth following.

This article is pretty comprehensive.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/arnold-ahlert/the-thug-culture-that-killed-chris-lane/

Christopher Lane, who was out for a jog in the town of Duncan, Oklahoma where his girlfriend and her family live, was targeted at random after he passed a home where the boys were staying. ”They saw Christopher go by, and one of them said: ‘There’s our target,’” said Police Chief Danny Ford. ”The boy who has talked to us said, ‘We were bored and didn’t have anything to do, so we decided to kill somebody.’”

Hicks, who called the boys “thugs,” noted that Edwards found the slaying amusing. “I believe this man is a threat to the community and should not be let out,” Hicks said during the bail hearing. “He thinks it’s all a joke.” Edwards, who has had earlier run-ins with the law, had also been in court on Friday, apparently after the crime had been committed, to sign papers related to his juvenile probation.

Interesting section of this article:

Indeed, a dark picture emerges as one peruses the social media sites teens like these invariably use to brag about themselves and their exploits. Before it was removed, Chauncy Luna’s Facebook page revealed he goes by the alias Baby Drake. It showed photos of him posing with friends, including Edwards, and flashing gang signs. Two pictures on James “Lilbuggy” Edwards’ Facebook page are also quite revealing. One shows a handgun, and several others show staggeringly large sums of cash. Both may be explained by another photo containing hashtags suggesting he was a member of the Crips. There is also a photo of him posing with a shotgun. ”Bitch we up them poles,” Edwards says in the clip, “F— ‘em.” (A dismantled shotgun with the serial numbers ground off was found in the car, but it is not currently known if it is the same weapon).

Tweets on Edwards’ Twitter account suggest he is racist. On April 29, he tweeted “90% of white ppl are nasty. #HATE THEM.” On July 15, shortly after George Zimmerman was acquitted, Edwards tweeted “Ayeee I knocced out 5 woods since Zimmerman court! lol shit ima keep sleepin shit! #ayeeee.” “Woods” is a term used to denigrate white people. Yet Chief Ford, who has yet to see Edwards’ social media, told the Daily Caller a hate crime charge is not likely. “I’m not discounting the stuff that’s on there, but they do that for shock and effect,” he contended.

Interesting tha Jesse Jackson spoke up about this:

“Praying for the family of Chris Lane,” Jackson said Wednesday on Twitter. “This senseless violence is frowned upon and the justice system must prevail.” Not a word, however from people like Al Sharpton, Attorney General Eric Holder, or President Obama, all of whom were willing to weigh in on the Trayvon Martin case on numerous occasions.

Allen West spoke out quickly, however, he got one fact wrong, the older boy, the driver, is white.

Former Congressman Allen West directly addressed the reticence of what he characterized as the “race industry crew.” On Twitter, he castigated Obama. “‘We were bored & decided to kill somebody.’ 3 black teens shoot white jogger.Who will POTUS identify w/this time?”

West tweeted Tuesday afternoon. West’s Facebook posting was equally caustic. “hall we hear anything from the race industry crew, Hollywood elites, or maybe Oprah Winfrey? The issue is not about proliferation of guns in America. This is about a failing black community and the fact that its young men are desensitized to violence because a gangsta culture promotes it,” West wrote.

Excellent article.

A...

[Xray]

Bratn Gaede, on 23 Aug 23 - 8:17 AM, said:

You are both over-generalizing. If you had said he had over-generalized that would have been the proper critique. "Society" is like "reality"--you know it from its particulars--and can be actually neither "armed" nor "polite." That doesn't mean you cannot say it is this or that, but that you get more particular. For instance, the United States is building a domestic army pointed at its own citizens in the name of "security." In this case wrong weapons in the hands of the wrong people. Etc.

--Brant

I deliberately kept Heinlein's collective noun here because it generates a more drastic picture in the mind.

[caroljane]

I take exception to Allen West. Why must there be only One Issue, which subsumes all others? Why in every human event must there be Only One analysis, Only One Real Meaning, and Only One Right Way to See It?

[Xray]

The security guard personally experienced the consequences of his own values.

... cold-bloodedly and deliberately shot by Dagny Taggart because he couldn't make up his mind.

I wouldn't want to be Dagny's defense lawyer if this had happened in real life. I probably would urge her not to testify.

But back from pure fiction to reality: I know that defense lawyers often advise their clients not to testfiy, but I would have been very interested in Zimmerman's version of what lead to that horrific escalation with such a tragic end.

Travyon Martin was killed by a single gunshot in the chest. Couldn't Zimmerman just have pointed the gun at the youth to keep him at bay? Or at least have tried not to shoot him fatally?

[caroljane]

Xray, this is being played out in different context here, see the Forccillo streetcar murder case. Not just citizens, but what cops should do, will be adjudicated in Crown vs Forcillo.

[Xray]

Xray, this is being played out in different context here, see the Forccillo streetcar murder case. Not just citizens, but what cops should do, will be adjudicated in Crown vs Forcillo.

Thanks for the info, Carol.

[caroljane]

What I fear is the "stand you ground" mentality in which even an armed police officer, surrounded by 22 other officers, can claim that he felt mortally threatened and was justified to kill. Our government is very friendly with the NRA and an acquittal in this case would be a boon to the industry.

[Brant Gaede]

The security guard personally experienced the consequences of his own values.

... cold-bloodedly and deliberately shot by Dagny Taggart because he couldn't make up his mind.

I wouldn't want to be Dagny's defense lawyer if this had happened in real life. I probably would urge her not to testify.

But back from pure fiction to reality: I know that defense lawyers often advise their clients not to testfiy, but I would have been very interested in Zimmerman's version of what lead to that horrific escalation with such a tragic end.

Travyon Martin was killed by a single gunshot in the chest. Couldn't Zimmerman just have pointed the gun at the youth to keep him at bay? Or at least have tried not to shoot him fatally?

Hold on now. We talked and talked about this matter here over quite a time and now you jump in with your Zimmerman shoots Martin 101.

--Brant

now, Dagny shoots guard: opps! We did that too (in real life, I as Dagny, would simply shoot the guard dead immediately, but Rand loved to talk ["Don't talk! Shoot!"])

[caroljane]

But Brant, I cannot envisage you as Zimmerman, or shooting anyone you could not identify correctly, as an individual.

[Brant Gaede]

You have to kill the guard immediately so he can't raise any alarm. Dagny had a silenced gun. In the army I learned there are only two places to stick a knife for instant death*. When you see someone in the movies getting stuck with a knife and falling dead it's not what would happen in every depiction I've seen. The funniest is the cowboy-villain getting it in the back while running away.

--Brant

*one is a downward thrust low on the side of the neck inward; the other is an upward thrust, abdomen to the heart--after grabbing the guy from behind with your hand over his mouth: European battlefield training bias--I doubt it happened once in Vietnam (and the last bayonet charge was in Korea [with great success], but I had bayonet training ["Kill!" thrust, "Kill!" thrust, "Kill!" thrust]), which was a lot of fun

[moralist]

The security guard personally experienced the consequences of his own values....

...cold-bloodedly and deliberately shot by Dagny Taggart because he couldn't make up his mind.

Not couldn't... wouldn't.

There is always a choice.

He made a wrong one.

But back from pure fiction to reality: I know that defense lawyers often advise their clients not to testfiy, but I would have been very interested in Zimmerman's version of what lead to that horrific escalation with such a tragic end.

I don't regard it as tragic... just as the consequence of a chain of actions.

And I was truly happy when I heard the verdict.

[Xray]

I don't regard it as tragic... just as the consequence of a chain of actions.

And I was truly happy when I heard the verdict.

What if this had happened to your kid?

[moralist]

I don't regard it as tragic... just as the consequence of a chain of actions.

And I was truly happy when I heard the verdict.

What if this had happened to your kid?

I don't raise scum.

[Brant Gaede]

I don't regard it as tragic... just as the consequence of a chain of actions.

And I was truly happy when I heard the verdict.

What if this had happened to your kid?

I don't raise scum.

Airborne!

I wouldn't either. I'd take the added precaution of keeping any child of mine out of any school but my home-school. Can you believe high school graduates who can't read or write to speak of or do arithmetic? Then there's the drug culture and the lack of proper values and valuing. (It's illegal to home-school in Germany, no?)

--Brant

[George H. Smith]

I don't regard it as tragic... just as the consequence of a chain of actions.

And I was truly happy when I heard the verdict.

What if this had happened to your kid?

I don't raise scum.

I am amused, if in a perverse sort of way, when I hear the parent of some young thug who has beaten someone to death, or otherwise murdered for no apparent reason, say something like, "But he was such a good boy!" I find it hard to believe that even semi-conscious parents would not have some indication that their child has taken the wrong path somewhere along the way.

Ghs