Ancient Aliens

[sbeaulieu]

Last week on Netflix, I started watching Season 1. I was introduced to quite an array of topics, focused on the possibility/evidence of alien influnces within our ancient civilizations (Mayans, Egyptians, American Indians).

While I don't necessarily buy a lot of the theories proposed, I'm specifically intrigued by the architectural feats of these past civilizations. The one that stands out prominently is Puma Punku ruins in Bolivia. The precision of the stone masonry and how the pieces interconnected is mind-boggling, even to today's experts and craftsmen. One guy was quoted as saying that if tasked, he would turn the job down because it would take him a lifetime to complete. Granted, in those days, it wouldn't have been the work of one man, but a community.

There are other remarkable pieces of evidence that merit consideration, but I'm curious if anyone else has watched these series and given it serious consideration with regard to plausibility. One thing's for certain: our ancestors had a profound knowledge of the stars. But how did they gain that knowledge, and how did we not inherit it?

~ Shane

[sbeaulieu]

A link for reference...

Ancient Aliens - History.com

~ Shane

[anthony]

Shane,

Yes, and it's 43 years since publication of 'Chariots of the Gods?' by von Daniken and I would think that there should be fresh evidence one way or the other, by now.

Like millions of other people, his hypothesis really grabbed my attention around that time, but then I think it faded away somewhat.

Mainstream academia really trashed him, but without substantial rebuttal, I seem to recall.

Still a fascinating theory, however...

Tony

[caroljane]

Shane,

Yes, and it's 43 years since publication of 'Chariots of the Gods?' by von Daniken and I would think that there should be fresh evidence one way or the other, by now.

Like millions of other people, his hypothesis really grabbed my attention around that time, but then I think it faded away somewhat.

Mainstream academia really trashed him, but without substantial rebuttal, I seem to recall.

Still a fascinating theory, however...

Tony

I love this stuff. I remember being enthralled by the theories of some eccentric epigraphist (forget the name) who demonstrated that the Welsh had coracled across the Atlantic and founded some Indo-British tribe in America.

[Rich Engle]

It's a really good series.

If you want to review the whole UFO situation, there are ample free resources. Two online over at Snag Films, for instance:

Top 10 UFO Sightings

The Best UFO Cases Ever Caught On Tape

Snag Films is an excellent resource for documentaries, ranging across wide categories. --They have about 2100.

rde

Edited June 6, 2011 by Rich Engle

[anthony]

I love this stuff. I remember being enthralled by the theories of some eccentric epigraphist (forget the name) who demonstrated that the Welsh had coracled across the Atlantic and founded some Indo-British tribe in America.

Carol,

In a coracle?!! Still, it's been done in a rowboat, so why not?

It is great that we don't know it all, and might never.

Another thing I just remembered that was exciting about Erich vD, is that he stopped just short of exposing Jesus Christ as an astronaut - but the implication was there.

Gives a whole new slant to "My Father, who art in Heaven..."

Great material for a heated imagination.

(The Welshman was possibly wanting to get away from those cursed Anglo- Saxons; so what's new? And our intrepid space travellers possibly wanted a breather from the wife and kids.)

Tony

Edited June 6, 2011 by whYNOT

[caroljane]

I love this stuff. I remember being enthralled by the theories of some eccentric epigraphist (forget the name) who demonstrated that the Welsh had coracled across the Atlantic and founded some Indo-British tribe in America.

Carol,

In a coracle?!! Still, it's been done in a rowboat, so why not?

It is great that we don't know it all, and might never.

Another thing I just remembered that was exciting about Erich vD, is that he stopped just short of exposing Jesus Christ as an astronaut - but the implication was there.

Gives a whole new slant to "My Father, who art in Heaven..."

Great material for a heated imagination.

(The Welshman was possibly wanting to get away from those cursed Anglo- Saxons; so what's new? And our intrepid space travellers possibly wanted a breather from the wife and kids.)

Tony

Tony,

And let's not forget Imanuel "Worlds in Collision' Velikovsky. He was about as well-regarded by orthodox academia in his day as Ayn Rand was, but he sold a ton of books ( I read WIC around 1970, 20 years after publication).

Edited June 6, 2011 by daunce lynam

[BaalChatzaf]

Tony,

And let's not forget Imanuel "Worlds in Collision' Velikovsky. He was about as well-regarded by orthodox academia in his day as Ayn Rand was, but he sold a ton of books ( I read WIC around 1970, 20 years after publication).

He was a total crackpot.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[sbeaulieu]

Tony, Carol and Rich,

Glad to see there's an interest in here on this subject. Rich, thanks for the links... I'll be sure to check those out at home. I bring up the subject at work, and even with my neighbor this past weekend. A lot of them are holy rollers to an extent, so they are "unbelievers" when it comes to this subject... haha!!

I've seen most of the episodes, but of all of them, I really like the one that speaks to the Star Child skull. I caught a glimpse of a UFO Hunters episode where they met with the current caretakers of the skull. I had read up on it, but this episode highlighted some more information regarding DNA make-up. Very cool stuff.

Another interesting subject were the Vimanas (flying machines). A team of scientists created large-scale versions of these, and they were air-worthy. It's little things (ok, maybe not so little) like these that really hold my attention.

A lot of what was written in ancient civilazations was in context and limits of their known world and language. So what a lot of folks take as verbatim leads me to believe they aren't reading between the lines. And their pictograms and art depicts a lot of other-worldly phenomenon.

~ Shane

Edited June 7, 2011 by sbeaulieu

[caroljane]

Actually I think it was St Brendan in the coracle, from Ireland, and why not indade?

The Welsh came in regular boats.

Who knows it didn't happen? The Vikings discovered Newfoundland by being blown way off course. But they had the means to get back home again. Even a saint could hardly expect a coracle to cross the Atlantic twice.

Related subject, Kon=Tiki, and the theories of Polynesian settlement of S. America - fascinating.

The incredible seamanship of the Tahitians who sailed to Hawaii in the 10th century, as told by Michener, has enchanted me ever since I read it.

[syrakusos]

Last year, I attended a dinner party for Dr. David Jacobs, a history professor at Temple University who specializes in alien abductions. He began investigating this as a doctoral candidate, only interested in the cultural phenomenon. Now he thinks there is much more to this. See Wikiepedia on Dr. Jacobs here. As I live in Ann Arbor, the host for that dinner gathering was my professor of sociology, Dr. Ronald Mark Westrum (Wikipedia here).

Personally, I am an X-Files Atheist: I want to believe, but I do not.

What I do not believe in is active present abduction. I do believe that Earth's evolution has been tinkered with. I mentioned on Rebirth of Reason the discontinuities in the fossil layers. Ed Thompson jumped on my case, accusing me of being a Born Again Christian. They show a discontinuity in the fossil layer. The paleontologists fill it in. They claim two new discontinuities between the preceding and subsequent layers. But that is not what I was referring to. I cited actual discontinuities from peer-reviewed academic journal articles in geology and paleontology. I'm just sayin' you know, you can cut the tails off a million generations of mice and throw 'em in a swimming pool and they ain't never gonna become dolphins. We have bombarded fruitflies with every radiation and we can make legs grow out of their heads, but we never created a new species of drosophila melangaster.

It's complicated. And ambiguous. And I can live with that.

[sbeaulieu]

The incredible seamanship of the Tahitians who sailed to Hawaii in the 10th century, as told by Michener, has enchanted me ever since I read it.

In the recent past, there was a sailing effort from Hawaii to Tahiti (or the other way around) using the same techniques of navigating via stars. These guys knew their stuff. But how does it all begin to gain that knowledge? That's the kicker for me

~ Shane

[syrakusos]

Kon-Tiki by Thor Heyerdahl and then Aku-Aku by Thor Heyerdahl demonstrated the navigation of the open ocean on boats designed for the Nile and Red Sea. I believe that 30,000 years ago, when the Sphinx of Egypt pointed to Spring in Leo, between the Ice Ages, there flourished a civilization. However, it required no aliens from off-planet. We lose our perspective because we are surrounded by genius. This discussion board provides more persons of high intelligence than existed across humanity once a generation only a couple of Ice Ages ago. Look at the numbers: the smartest 25% of Chinese are more people than are in the USA. The key is in the billions available.

In Ayn Rand's mythology, they killed the innovator but took his gift. Regardless of that, once a generation or once a century over 10,000 years over 20K over 30,000, someone figured out this or that, showed them how to do it. In the Gilgamesh, the people complain because the king forces them to build walls -- in Bolivia or Egypt straight and true walls ... the Megaliths... the outrigggers that crossed open ocean with a model of the stars above made from twisted fibers and shells... One person here; another there. And you are so inured to genius by its commonplace that you think Aliens brought it from Outer Space.

And they did.

But much deeper and much older than you suppose.

Remember, also, that space and time are one. If "Zrok of Sirius-6" can travel here in a spaceship, then "Tellurium-145 Smith Mary" can travel here from the year 2572. You do not know. All that you do know is that what you were taught in school cannot stand up to incisive questioning. That much is easy to agree with

Astrological ages occur because of a phenomenon known as the precession of the equinoxes. One complete period of this precession icalled a Great Year or Platonic Year of about 25,920 years. ... Though astrologers cannot agree upon the year, century or millennium for the start of any age, they generally agree upon the core historical events associated with the recent Ages since the start of the Holocene Epoch. For example, the Age of Leo with massive global warming that resulted in the deglaciation of Earth at the end of the last Ice Age, Age of Cancer with domestication and the Biblical Flood (most likely a by-product of rising sea level from deglaciation); the Age of Gemini is associated with the invention of writing, the Age of Taurus with Ancient Egypt and its massive pyramids, the Aries age with the Iron Age and the Age of Pisces with Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_age

... which is fine... but take it back one more cycle ... 27,920 years ago...

Edited June 7, 2011 by Michael E. Marotta

[Rich Engle]

A lot of the abduction stories can be attributed to sleep paralysis.

[Rich Engle]

Just saw this this a.m. --my buddy Mike Hill is getting in the news, again:

Article here-Daily Mail

[BaalChatzaf]

Kon-Tiki by Thor Heyerdahl and then Aku-Aku by Thor Heyerdahl demonstrated the navigation of the open ocean on boats designed for the Nile and Red Sea. I believe that 30,000 years ago, when the Sphinx of Egypt pointed to Spring in Leo, between the Ice Ages, there flourished a civilization. However, it required no aliens from off-planet. We lose our perspective because we are surrounded by genius. This discussion board provides more persons of high intelligence than existed across humanity once a generation only a couple of Ice Ages ago. Look at the numbers: the smartest 25% of Chinese are more people than are in the USA. The key is in the billions available.

In Ayn Rand's mythology, they killed the innovator but took his gift. Regardless of that, once a generation or once a century over 10,000 years over 20K over 30,000, someone figured out this or that, showed them how to do it. In the Gilgamesh, the people complain because the king forces them to build walls -- in Bolivia or Egypt straight and true walls ... the Megaliths... the outrigggers that crossed open ocean with a model of the stars above made from twisted fibers and shells... One person here; another there. And you are so inured to genius by its commonplace that you think Aliens brought it from Outer Space.

And they did.

But much deeper and much older than you suppose.

Remember, also, that space and time are one. If "Zrok of Sirius-6" can travel here in a spaceship, then "Tellurium-145 Smith Mary" can travel here from the year 2572. You do not know. All that you do know is that what you were taught in school cannot stand up to incisive questioning. That much is easy to agree with

Astrological ages occur because of a phenomenon known as the precession of the equinoxes. One complete period of this precession icalled a Great Year or Platonic Year of about 25,920 years. ... Though astrologers cannot agree upon the year, century or millennium for the start of any age, they generally agree upon the core historical events associated with the recent Ages since the start of the Holocene Epoch. For example, the Age of Leo with massive global warming that resulted in the deglaciation of Earth at the end of the last Ice Age, Age of Cancer with domestication and the Biblical Flood (most likely a by-product of rising sea level from deglaciation); the Age of Gemini is associated with the invention of writing, the Age of Taurus with Ancient Egypt and its massive pyramids, the Aries age with the Iron Age and the Age of Pisces with Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia....strological_age

... which is fine... but take it back one more cycle ... 27,920 years ago...

There is no evidence that a Global Flood (i.e. Noah's Flood) happened. There have been local floods, particularly at the end of the last great Ice Age when mammouth ice dams melted and gave way, but not Great Flood. Noah's Flood would have been 5000 years ago (using Ussher's time table for the universe, which is false) and a major flood at that time is very unlikely.

The Great Year is the time it takes for the axis of the earth to precess on cycle. It has no significance for the cosmos as a whole. It is just the Earth wobbling like a top.

Ba'al Chatzaf

[william.scherk]

I do believe that Earth's evolution has been tinkered with. I mentioned on Rebirth of Reason the discontinuities in the fossil layers. Ed Thompson jumped on my case, accusing me of being a Born Again Christian.

Is this the thread at RoR? -- Regarding the discontinuous fossil record

MEM: So, OK, maybe there is metaphysically no "creator" of the universe, but it is easy to suggest from the discontinuities in the fossile record that Earth has been interfered with. Forces greater than we can muster and can only imagine in science fiction probably intervened in the "natural" evolution --- if evolution itself is unplanned -- and left a clear record.

MEM: The universe could not have had a creator. Earth could have. Even if Earth's existence were the result of "chance" it could have been discovered and managed (perhaps even for profit). The fossil record cannot violate the laws of reality. It can -- and does -- have gaps as the result of direct genetic manipulation of the plants and animals. Even the climates and their changes could be the consequences of planning. To admit to this is not to endorse omniscient omnipotent blah blah blah, but just to recognize that whatever we can do, others can do more of.

Michael -- in the referenced thread from RoR, Ed Thompson did not jump on your case, nor did he accuse you of being a Born Again Christian. Perhaps another thread exists at RoR.

I am reading up on the four 'scientific' papers you cited in that thread on the subject of 'gaps' . . .

Edited June 7, 2011 by william.scherk

[Brant Gaede]

There is no evidence that a Global Flood (i.e. Noah's Flood) happened. There have been local floods, particularly at the end of the last great Ice Age when mammouth ice dams melted and gave way, but not Great Flood. Noah's Flood would have been 5000 years ago (using Ussher's time table for the universe, which is false) and a major flood at that time is very unlikely.

The Great Year is the time it takes for the axis of the earth to precess on cycle. It has no significance for the cosmos as a whole. It is just the Earth wobbling like a top.

The Black Sea flood has been generally discredited as the source of the story. 4.5 million years ago the Atlantic spilled into the dry Mediterranean Basin which was deeper than the Grand Canyon. I think that's the biggest flood there is a geological record of. What is now The Great Salt Lake used to be much, much bigger. It breached it's natural dam to the north unleashing a giant cascade of water out to the Pacific leaving behind fastastic evidence of this one-time event in sharply cut canyons and mostly dry waterfalls that used to be gigantic. That lake is left over glacial melt from the last ice age. [edit: rather it used to be such a lake. I'm sure the glacial melt has been mostly replaced by modern percipitation and drainage.]

--Brant

Edited June 7, 2011 by Brant Gaede

[caroljane]

There is no evidence that a Global Flood (i.e. Noah's Flood) happened. There have been local floods, particularly at the end of the last great Ice Age when mammouth ice dams melted and gave way, but not Great Flood. Noah's Flood would have been 5000 years ago (using Ussher's time table for the universe, which is false) and a major flood at that time is very unlikely.

The Great Year is the time it takes for the axis of the earth to precess on cycle. It has no significance for the cosmos as a whole. It is just the Earth wobbling like a top.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I'm glad there was some kind of flood, it gave rise to Bob Newhart's classic Noah-calls-the-lumberyard routine.

[Selene]

There is no evidence that a Global Flood (i.e. Noah's Flood) happened. There have been local floods, particularly at the end of the last great Ice Age when mammouth ice dams melted and gave way, but not Great Flood. Noah's Flood would have been 5000 years ago (using Ussher's time table for the universe, which is false) and a major flood at that time is very unlikely.

The Great Year is the time it takes for the axis of the earth to precess on cycle. It has no significance for the cosmos as a whole. It is just the Earth wobbling like a top.

Ba'al Chatzaf

I'm glad there was some kind of flood, it gave rise to Bob Newhart's classic Noah-calls-the-lumberyard routine.

Not to mention Bill Cosby's, "How long can you tread water?" routine.

http://youtu.be/n0KHt8xrQkk

Do not know if I ever heard the Newhart one on Noah.

transcript here

Edited June 7, 2011 by Selene

[sbeaulieu]

Rich,

I saw the first link you posted. That's some pretty eye-opening cases, especially the Yukon case and the Nova Scotia. I really like the case of the sighting over Santa Barbara Channel by Mr Johnson and his flight crew. That depiction looks eerily similar to today B2 stealth bomber, possibly an homage to that specific event ;)

In watching the season 2 episode (Unexplained Structures), I learned of the Gobekli Tepe in Turkey, some 12,000 years old. I like that this essentially shatters the concept of the Bible's dating of human history to approximately 4000 B.C. I'm sure there's other evidence, but this one has to top the list.

~ Shane

[Rich Engle]

Rich,

I saw the first link you posted. That's some pretty eye-opening cases, especially the Yukon case and the Nova Scotia. I really like the case of the sighting over Santa Barbara Channel by Mr Johnson and his flight crew. That depiction looks eerily similar to today B2 stealth bomber, possibly an homage to that specific event ;)

In watching the season 2 episode (Unexplained Structures), I learned of the Gobekli Tepe in Turkey, some 12,000 years old. I like that this essentially shatters the concept of the Bible's dating of human history to approximately 4000 B.C. I'm sure there's other evidence, but this one has to top the list.

~ Shane

Well, science has proven the Bible dating (and that is a whole topic unto itself) to be completely wrong. If you want, look at all the scientists that are coming together in the integration work between spirituality and science. Michael Dowd hosts a lot of their work. www.thankgodforevolution.com

There is a lot of work being done on both sides of the fence, and it is quite positive. One does not preclude the other!

Yeah, the Santa Barbara thing is amazing.

Thanks!

rde

[Brant Gaede]

Since I'm descendant from aliens, this is all so old to me.

--Brant

that's why I didn't sign an organ donor card, but I do intend to get rich selling my remains on eBay and take a cruise

[caroljane]

Since I'm descendant from aliens, this is all so old to me.

--Brant

that's why I didn't sign an organ donor card, but I do intend to get rich selling my remains on eBay and take a cruise

Brant, forget pie in the sky, your modelling offer is still open. We're thinking Vogue, a re-creation of the classic wedding of Latka and Simka on the old Taxi show. You as Latka of course, and maybe 9th Doctor as Simka (we'd just use his old avatar and not pay him - you could have his share)

Get your people to call our people!

Regards,

Gord

True North Ice Hot Images.ca

[syrakusos]

There is no evidence that a Global Flood (i.e. Noah's Flood) happened. There have been local floods, particularly at the end of the last great Ice Age when mammouth ice dams melted and gave way, but not Great Flood. Noah's Flood would have been 5000 years ago (using Ussher's time table for the universe, which is false) and a major flood at that time is very unlikely.

The Great Year is the time it takes for the axis of the earth to precess on cycle. It has no significance for the cosmos as a whole. It is just the Earth wobbling like a top.

Ba'al Chatzaf

It may not have any significance for the cosmos, but it does for us. Same with the Flood. Floods are common enough that there is no need for a global inundation, but when it happens to you, that's all that matters.

The Scorpion, Bull, Lion, and Hunter are easy to recognize. It probably began in Sumeria. Who knows? We do know that "the Big Dipper" does not look like a bear, yet peoples in both the Old World and New called it that. When Sirius rises on the horizon in the morning, the Nile floods. It is not hard to understand that all it takes is one genius every three generations to make a little bit of progress.

Michael -- in the referenced thread from RoR, Ed Thompson did not jump on your case, nor did he accuse you of being a Born Again Christian. Perhaps another thread exists at RoR.

That was the thread. Obviously, I read a lot between the lines. Perhaps too much. Thanks.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Michael E. Marotta