An Objectivist's Stance on The Origin of The Universe and The Afterlife

[Mike Hansen]

I am majoring in accounting. Before accounting I had three years of engineering. Its disappointing that accounting barely even touches linear algebra. What about you?

Awesome. Accounting's a good one. I got a huge grin when I read "Its disappointing that accounting barely even touches linear algebra." I'm known here at the U for wanting more rigorous math in our engineering courses (in a second-year engineering class we were still being taught basic frickin' algebra and systems of linear equations... seriously!). Applying math to solve (or not even solve, just gain information about) problems enriches everything. You have to strictly define abstract quantities and their relationships... it makes you think! How the hell can you avoid math in accounting or engineering?! Let me know if you figure out some neat mathematical method of solving an accounting problem, or if you'd like to discuss an idea of such a method. And if I were you I'd do some reading about numerical analysis (unless you already have). It'll blow your mind when you figure out the stuff you can solve with some fairly simple methods.

I'm in Chemical Engineering. Although my interests/hobbies are computational fluid dynamics and chemical reaction simulation, so I'm kind of a half-chemical-half-mechanical guy.

You bring up a good point. Do I deal with this fool?.... Well, the guy in the coffee shop was an easy no but I am friends with the minister. I actually care about the arrogant prick. I see a man who is trapped by his religion. I doubt there is any turning back for him though. His entire adult life has been spent on his religion. He is obviously not happy. He is employed by a church of christ. Job security for him is in keeping his mouth shut and the occasional "I agree". I do wonder how Rand would look on Ministers and the way they make a living. To me these people are to be greatly pitied. Something else he said to me which was outrageous was "yeah, i've been in your position before but I have 13 years of studying and knowledge behind my decision to be a christian." Oh, so many implications in that statement. The biggest one probably being that he is a fool I should stay away from.

Yeah, that argument has a lot of implications. Here's my suggestion for dealing with it (I do this a lot): create a word/notepad document for ranting. Type up your rant, and don't leave anything in your head (it's the build-up that kills the mind). Then go do some accounting/linear algebra or something you enjoy (fluid dynamics and basketball are my favorites here ).

If you want to continue associating with the minister, or at least talking philosophy with him (I have plenty of good friends that are mormons, we just stick away from philosophy and get along great), then I would ask him if he is happy. And then ask him to define happiness. Definitions will kill so many arguments of people like this. These guys can be effective in argument only if the fundamentals of the argument are loosely defined or just plain undefined. And in my experience, christians/mormons are notorious for not defining happiness (and love), despite using them extensively.

Mike

[basimpson22]

I am majoring in accounting. Before accounting I had three years of engineering. Its disappointing that accounting barely even touches linear algebra. What about you?

Awesome. Accounting's a good one. I got a huge grin when I read "Its disappointing that accounting barely even touches linear algebra." I'm known here at the U for wanting more rigorous math in our engineering courses (in a second-year engineering class we were still being taught basic frickin' algebra and systems of linear equations... seriously!). Applying math to solve (or not even solve, just gain information about) problems enriches everything. You have to strictly define abstract quantities and their relationships... it makes you think! How the hell can you avoid math in accounting or engineering?! Let me know if you figure out some neat mathematical method of solving an accounting problem, or if you'd like to discuss an idea of such a method. And if I were you I'd do some reading about numerical analysis (unless you already have). It'll blow your mind when you figure out the stuff you can solve with some fairly simple methods.

I'm in Chemical Engineering. Although my interests/hobbies are computational fluid dynamics and chemical reaction simulation, so I'm kind of a half-chemical-half-mechanical guy.

You bring up a good point. Do I deal with this fool?.... Well, the guy in the coffee shop was an easy no but I am friends with the minister. I actually care about the arrogant prick. I see a man who is trapped by his religion. I doubt there is any turning back for him though. His entire adult life has been spent on his religion. He is obviously not happy. He is employed by a church of christ. Job security for him is in keeping his mouth shut and the occasional "I agree". I do wonder how Rand would look on Ministers and the way they make a living. To me these people are to be greatly pitied. Something else he said to me which was outrageous was "yeah, i've been in your position before but I have 13 years of studying and knowledge behind my decision to be a christian." Oh, so many implications in that statement. The biggest one probably being that he is a fool I should stay away from.

Yeah, that argument has a lot of implications. Here's my suggestion for dealing with it (I do this a lot): create a word/notepad document for ranting. Type up your rant, and don't leave anything in your head (it's the build-up that kills the mind). Then go do some accounting/linear algebra or something you enjoy (fluid dynamics and basketball are my favorites here ).

If you want to continue associating with the minister, or at least talking philosophy with him (I have plenty of good friends that are mormons, we just stick away from philosophy and get along great), then I would ask him if he is happy. And then ask him to define happiness. Definitions will kill so many arguments of people like this. These guys can be effective in argument only if the fundamentals of the argument are loosely defined or just plain undefined. And in my experience, christians/mormons are notorious for not defining happiness (and love), despite using them extensively.

Mike

Well, at Tennessee Tech, linear algebra was remedial for the engineering program. Calculus I is a Freshmasn first semester class. We were required to take Numerical Analysis (which included an introduction to MATLAB) sophomore year. We learned about using iterations to solve complex problems. Most of it I can't remember though. Thanks for the idea of the ranting notepad. I'll definitely use that. I do love me some basketball for sure. But I'm not sure about doing numerical analysis in my freetime. I should probably get back into calculus. I really did enjoy calculus.

I do plan on associating with the minister. I just have to prepare myself better. I am often at a loss for words. I've been presented with some excellent arguments by you and others in this forum. I'll condense the good stuff in a word document and print it off.

[kane4]

To begin with, you are not going to be able to convert a minister. Not only is it his beliefs on the table, but also his livelihood. His job is to convert YOU, and then keep you on the path, i.e. in his flock, under church control. His arguments are weak, especially considering his position as an expert on such matters, but I can tell you from experience that no matter how good your arguments are, he will hold fast, and ultimately frustrate you. If you can successfully disprove him, he will most likely become dismissive, and authoritatively say something to the effect of "you need to get right with God".

The best thing you can do is be resolute and completely confident in yourself as a free thinking individual, if you can do that, you'll have nothing to prove to others.

That being said, the best method I have found in these situations is not to attempt to provide answers, but to continuously ask logical questions about the statements he makes. He is the "expert" after all.