Boy did this one backfire!

Michael Stuart Kelly · February 8, 2011

Boy did this one backfire!

Below is a video I got from The Blaze here: Muslim TV Exec Found Guilty of Beheading His Wife (by Jonathon M. Seidl, February 8, 2011).

This is about Muzzammil "Mo" Hassan, born in Pakistan. In 2004 he founded a Muslim-oriented TV network called Bridges TV in Orchard Park, New York (which is still on the air). The purpose of the station is to counteract Muslim stereotypes.

You would think the owner would take that to heart. But instead, he beheaded his wife in one of the most stereotyped fashions imaginable.

Don't say it can't happen here (in the USA). It did happen here.

To understand further, here is a quote from The Blaze article linked above:

Prosecutor Colleen Curtin Gable said Hassan bought two hunting knives less than an hour before the attack, parked his luxury vehicle out of view at the station and then hid in wait inside. During a 37-second frenzy that began when Hassan's wife walked through the door, he stabbed her more than 40 times in the face, back and chest and decapitated her. Surveillance video captured some of the attack inside a darkened hallway.
. . .
But prosecutors said it was clear Hassan was a master manipulator who sought to control every aspect of his wife's life, especially after she'd filed for divorce and put his reputation at risk.
. . .
Immediately after the wife's death, the manner in which she died prompted speculation her death was an honor killing. The practice is still accepted among some fanatical Muslim men, including in the couple's native Pakistan, who feel betrayed by their wives.
Attorney Nadia Shahram, who lectures on the effects of religion and culture on family law at the University at Buffalo, said Monday she believed "this was more than a domestic-violence homicide."
Shahram, who was in the courtroom for closing arguments, said several factors led her to believe the death was "a mix of domestic violence and honor killing," including the separation of the victim's head from her body.
"He separated the mind, which he saw as worthless, and kicked it," she said.

I know starting this thread is bigot-food (and I am not looking forward to the comments from some here), but facts are facts.

The many good people in the Muslim world who want to change the public perception of Islam should not allow people like this man to be their public voices.

This dude claimed he wanted to fight Muslim stereotypes. Talk about backfiring on that score!

How can he change public perception of a stereotype when he, himself, is one in real life?

Michael

Mike11 · February 8, 2011

Substantially f'd up. I look forward to him getting one hell of a prison sentence and the full Oz treatment.

Richard Wiig · February 8, 2011

Don't say it can't happen here (in the USA). It did happen here.

Said as if it is news to you. It shouldn't be. Honours killings have been happening in the US for a considerable time before this one.

caroljane · February 8, 2011

Don't say it can't happen here (in the USA). It did happen here.
Said as if it is news to you. It shouldn't be. Honours killings have been happening in the US for a considerable time before this one.

The term honour killing is detestable since it imports the idea of honour to an act which is the grotesque nadir of dishonour. It should be femicide, or filicide, or the most contemptible cide anyone could think of. I am seeing Aqsa Parvez as I write, bright, brave, murdered at 14 by those who should have cherished her the most.

Such killings are entirely tribal and cultural and occur among Palestinian Christians and Hindus in equal proportion to Muslims.

Edited February 8, 2011 by daunce lynam

BaalChatzaf · February 8, 2011

Boy did this one backfire!
Below is a video I got from The Blaze here: Muslim TV Exec Found Guilty of Beheading His Wife (by Jonathon M. Seidl, February 8, 2011).
This is about Muzzammil "Mo" Hassan, born in Pakistan. In 2004 he founded a Muslim-oriented TV network called Bridges TV in Orchard Park, New York (which is still on the air). The purpose of the station is to counteract Muslim stereotypes.
You would think the owner would take that to heart. But instead, he beheaded his wife in one of the most stereotyped fashions imaginable.
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Don't say it can't happen here (in the USA). It did happen here.
To understand further, here is a quote from The Blaze article linked above:
Prosecutor Colleen Curtin Gable said Hassan bought two hunting knives less than an hour before the attack, parked his luxury vehicle out of view at the station and then hid in wait inside. During a 37-second frenzy that began when Hassan's wife walked through the door, he stabbed her more than 40 times in the face, back and chest and decapitated her. Surveillance video captured some of the attack inside a darkened hallway.
. . .
But prosecutors said it was clear Hassan was a master manipulator who sought to control every aspect of his wife's life, especially after she'd filed for divorce and put his reputation at risk.
. . .
Immediately after the wife's death, the manner in which she died prompted speculation her death was an honor killing. The practice is still accepted among some fanatical Muslim men, including in the couple's native Pakistan, who feel betrayed by their wives.
Attorney Nadia Shahram, who lectures on the effects of religion and culture on family law at the University at Buffalo, said Monday she believed "this was more than a domestic-violence homicide."
Shahram, who was in the courtroom for closing arguments, said several factors led her to believe the death was "a mix of domestic violence and honor killing," including the separation of the victim's head from her body.
"He separated the mind, which he saw as worthless, and kicked it," she said.
I know starting this thread is bigot-food (and I am not looking forward to the comments from some here), but facts are facts.
The many good people in the Muslim world who want to change the public perception of Islam should not allow people like this man to be their public voices.
This dude claimed he wanted to fight Muslim stereotypes. Talk about backfiring on that score!
How can he change public perception of a stereotype when he, himself, is one in real life?
Michael

There goes your Muslim, Michael. Different mountain, different God.

Ba'al Chatzaf

anthony · February 8, 2011

There goes your Muslim, Michael. Different mountain, different God.
Ba'al Chatzaf

Well, you know of a better God?

The same Big Guy who gave us the Talmud, which Mohammed borrowed and called Shariah Law.

Same ol' mountain, same ol' God.

There goes your believer, Ba'al.

caroljane · February 8, 2011

There goes your Muslim, Michael. Different mountain, different God.
Ba'al Chatzaf
Well, you know of a better God?
The same Big Guy who gave us the Talmud, which Mohammed borrowed and called Shariah Law.
Same ol' mountain, same ol' God.
There goes your believer, Ba'al.

"Christ in his mercy infinite

I pray to see and Olaf, too

Preponderatingly because

Unless statistics lie, he was

More brave than me, more blond than you"

-apoligies to ee cummings for the caps

Edited February 8, 2011 by daunce lynam

sbeaulieu · February 9, 2011

The term honour killing is detestable since it imports the idea of honour to an act which is the grotesque nadir of dishonour.

Isn't the term honor killing more along the lines of salvaging honor? Either way, I agree it is horrific and unacceptable...in any corner of humanity.

~ Shane

Selene · February 9, 2011

Folks:

I am getting confused, I thought that us primitive Americans were the religious fanatics.

Ya know techin agin that evilution stuffs!

Seems like we are kind calm and conservative with a lot of imported religious fanatics.

Adam

Richard Wiig · February 9, 2011

Don't say it can't happen here (in the USA). It did happen here.
Said as if it is news to you. It shouldn't be. Honours killings have been happening in the US for a considerable time before this one.
The term honour killing is detestable since it imports the idea of honour to an act which is the grotesque nadir of dishonour. It should be femicide, or filicide, or the most contemptible cide anyone could think of. I am seeing Aqsa Parvez as I write, bright, brave, murdered at 14 by those who should have cherished her the most.
Such killings are entirely tribal and cultural and occur among Palestinian Christians and Hindus in equal proportion to Muslims.

Call it for what it is. It is their code of honour that is detestable, and renaming it simply distracts from the fact that it is their code. That doesn't help to stop it, that helps to cover the cause up and ensure that there are more victims. You are bringing Christians and Hindus into it in order to mitigate, which I detest, but so far as Christianity and Hinduism goes, if it leads to the same kind of thing - and I know that Hinduism does it, but I'm not so sure about Christianity - they (those codes) should be equally denounced and ostracized. They way to put an end to this shit, is to have zero tolerance of that shit, not mitigating and protecting it by announcing that others do it too.

Michael Stuart Kelly · February 9, 2011

I notice that the expert Attorney Nadia Shahram called this "a mix of domestic violence and honor killing." (Direct quote.)

And all people talk about is the honor killing part.

Is everybody cool with domestic violence like wife-beating? I'm not.

I guess bashing domestic violence ain't as sexy as bashing honor killing...

Just ribbing y'all, but let's keep it real. It's all bad.

And it's all a mixture of culture, religion and bullying from chosen unrepentant bad character.

I'm not going to let the individual off the hook in order to bash or defend a culture.

Michael

BaalChatzaf · February 9, 2011

I notice that the expert Attorney Nadia Shahram called this "a mix of domestic violence and honor killing." (Direct quote.)
And all people talk about is the honor killing part.
Is everybody cool with domestic violence like wife-beating? I'm not.
I guess bashing domestic violence ain't as sexy as bashing honor killing...

The stabbing 40 times in the face and neck was domestic violence. The beheading was pure Islam.

Ba'al Chatzaf

Michael Stuart Kelly · February 9, 2011

Thanks, Bob.

That's the way I see it, too.

Except I would say "a specific Islamic culture" instead of "pure Islam."

That's because I know of many "pure Islam" folks who do not consider that as part of Islam.

Michael

caroljane · February 10, 2011

Don't say it can't happen here (in the USA). It did happen here.
Said as if it is news to you. It shouldn't be. Honours killings have been happening in the US for a considerable time before this one.
The term honour killing is detestable since it imports the idea of honour to an act which is the grotesque nadir of dishonour. It should be femicide, or filicide, or the most contemptible cide anyone could think of. I am seeing Aqsa Parvez as I write, bright, brave, murdered at 14 by those who should have cherished her the most.
Such killings are entirely tribal and cultural and occur among Palestinian Christians and Hindus in equal proportion to Muslims.
Call it for what it is. It is their code of honour that is detestable, and renaming it simply distracts from the fact that it is their code. That doesn't help to stop it, that helps to cover the cause up and ensure that there are more victims. You are bringing Christians and Hindus into it in order to mitigate, which I detest, but so far as Christianity and Hinduism goes, if it leads to the same kind of thing - and I know that Hinduism does it, but I'm not so sure about Christianity - they (those codes) should be equally denounced and ostracized. They way to put an end to this shit, is to have zero tolerance of that shit, not mitigating and protecting it by announcing that others do it too.

It's the tribalism and misogyny and the individual's evil that kills the women, you blinkered fool. The religion is used as an enabler or just ignored, according to who's the murderer du jour.

Selene · February 10, 2011

From Wiki:

"Human Rights Watch defines "honor killings" as follows:

Honor killings are acts of vengeance, usually death, committed by male family members against female family members, who are held to have brought dishonor upon the family. A woman can be targeted by (individuals within) her family for a variety of reasons, including: refusing to enter into an

arranged marriage

, being the victim of a

sexual assault

, seeking a divorce—even from an

abusive

husband—or (allegedly) committing

adultery

. The mere perception that a woman has behaved in a way that "dishonors" her family is sufficient to trigger an attack on her life.

^[6]

The loose term "honor killing" applies to killing of both males and females in cultures that practice it.^[7] For example, during the year 2002 in Pakistan, it is estimated that 245 women and 137 men were killed in the name of Karo-kari in Sindh^[^{citation needed}^]. These killings target women and men who choose to have relationships outside of their family's tribal or religious community."

So apparently in the province of Sindh in Pakistan in 2002 almost 38% of the honor killings men were the victims. I have not seen reports of men being the victims of honor killings reported?

Have you?

Adam

Richard Wiig · February 10, 2011

It's the tribalism and misogyny and the individual's evil that kills the women, you blinkered fool. The religion is used as an enabler or just ignored, according to who's the murderer du jour.

Tribalism and misogyny arise from ideas about life. Islam is a system of ideas about life, that when imbibed inculcates certain attitudes and outlooks, one of which is misogyny. You cannot steep yourself in a religion that tells you that women are destined for hell by virtue of being women, along with a whole host of other misogynistic ideas without some of it rubbing off on you, and the wider culture around you.

Richard Wiig · February 10, 2011

I have not seen reports of men being the victims of honor killings reported?
Have you?
Adam

Just keep an eye on the anti-jihad sites and you will see them popping up from time to time.

Libertarian Muslim · February 10, 2011

It's the tribalism and misogyny and the individual's evil that kills the women, you blinkered fool. The religion is used as an enabler or just ignored, according to who's the murderer du jour.
Tribalism and misogyny arise from ideas about life. Islam is a system of ideas about life, that when imbibed inculcates certain attitudes and outlooks, one of which is misogyny. You cannot steep yourself in a religion that tells you that women are destined for hell by virtue of being women, along with a whole host of other misogynistic ideas without some of it rubbing off on you, and the wider culture around you.

First of all.. Islam doesn't state that women are destined for hell by virtue of being women.

Next point..

This whole thing is being blamed on Islam as I see on this page rather than the cultural ideologies and practices of the person responsible like it should be.

Honor killings aren't only practiced amongst Muslims within these regions, but also amongst Christians and Hindus also as was pointed out before. Therefore the indication should show that it is more to do with the culture rather than the religion.

Islam forbids such behavior, the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did not forbid divorce and even encouraged it in some cases. The article stated that this man killed his wife because of the shame it would have brought on his family if she divorced him, therefore the actions of this man can't be blamed on Islam, rather his own cultural practices and beliefs that are within his community.

Stop scapegoating Islam...

Richard Wiig · February 10, 2011

First of all.. Islam doesn't state that women are destined for hell by virtue of being women.

Muhammad states that he's glimpsed Hell, and nearly all of its occupants are woman.

Next point..
This whole thing is being blamed on Islam as I see on this page rather than the cultural ideologies and practices of the person responsible like it should be.

Other cultures inculcate the same attitudes to varying degrees, such as Hinduism, Christianity to a degree, and others, no one is disputing that, but this man is primarily Islamic, not christian, or Hindu, or Hare Krishna, or anything like that. He's a muslim, who's devout enough to devote his life to running a tv station dedicated to spreading Islam. The focus here is on him and his religion, and it is entirely legitimate to do so.

Honor killings aren't only practiced amongst Muslims within these regions, but also amongst Christians and Hindus also as was pointed out before. Therefore the indication should show that it is more to do with the culture rather than the religion.

Cultures are shaped by ideas. They may be Christian ideas, or Islamic ideas, or more primitive bow down to the Gods ideas, that are so primitive it amounts to "the Gods are unhappy, let's toss them a sacrifice". We are talking about a man shaped largely by Islamic culture.

Islam forbids such behavior, the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did not forbid divorce and even encouraged it in some cases.

Yes, Muhammad did not forbid divorce, but he did put forward a whole lot of rules, and many misogynistic ideas. As I said, a religion steeped in misogyny is bound to rub off.

The article stated that this man killed his wife because of the shame it would have brought on his family if she divorced him, therefore the actions of this man can't be blamed on Islam, rather his own cultural practices and beliefs that are within his community.
Stop scapegoating Islam...

Stop not facing up to the reality of your religion.

Michael Stuart Kelly · February 10, 2011

LM,

I feel your pain.

Maybe one day you'll realize just how little you know about Islam and learn what it truly is from Mr. Infidel. If you don't believe me, just ask him.

Michael

Libertarian Muslim · February 10, 2011

Muhammad states that he's glimpsed Hell, and nearly all of its occupants are woman.

The first rule of any hadith interpretation is to ensure that the hadith did not contradict the teachings of the Qur'an.. This one does, therefore it's rather irrelevant isn't it?

Needless to say, even if it were the case that this was said, the question would be.. Why did he say that? What was the context? Why would there be more women than men in hell? Could it be possible that there would be a population reduction of men where the ratio of women to men on the globe is drastically changed? What type of events could create such a drastic change?

Other cultures inculcate the same attitudes to varying degrees, such as Hinduism, Christianity to a degree, and others, no one is disputing that, but this man is primarily Islamic, not christian, or Hindu, or Hare Krishna, or anything like that. He's a muslim, who's devout enough to devote his life to running a tv station dedicated to spreading Islam. The focus here is on him and his religion, and it is entirely legitimate to do so.

Hmmm, his actions in front of other people do not make him devout, rather it's his actions in private that are most important.. Who knows what his intentions were in creating that organization? Was it to please God or give him a good standing in the community? The real indication about piety is how he was in private and in fact the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him stated "The best of you are those who are best to their wives". If that is any indication, this man is the worst of creation for his actions and certainly not an example of Islam nor piety..

Cultures are shaped by ideas. They may be Christian ideas, or Islamic ideas, or more primitive bow down to the Gods ideas, that are so primitive it amounts to "the Gods are unhappy, let's toss them a sacrifice". We are talking about a man shaped largely by Islamic culture.

No, not by Islamic culture.. Do Turkish families commit honor killing? Nope, do Malaysians? Nope.. Do Indonesians? Nope.. These countries mentioned have some of the largest populations of Muslims in the world.. So what's the difference? It's about the culture..

Yes, Muhammad did not forbid divorce, but he did put forward a whole lot of rules, and many misogynistic ideas. As I said, a religion steeped in misogyny is bound to rub off.

I disagree..

Stop not facing up to the reality of your religion.

I have a much better understanding of Islam than you do so please don't even waste my time with such stupidity.

william.scherk · February 11, 2011

Do Turkish families commit honor killing?

You say, no, but the Organization of Turkish Culture says . .

Turkish boys commit 'honour' crimes

Honor Killings And Violence Against Women In Turkey

Richard Wiig · February 11, 2011

Muhammad states that he's glimpsed Hell, and nearly all of its occupants are woman.

So why is hell populated mainly by women if it isn't that women are somehow more evil than men? Is it because they hadn't learned the virtues of Islam yet?

Next point..
This whole thing is being blamed on Islam as I see on this page rather than the cultural ideologies and practices of the person responsible like it should be.

Islam does shape the minds of men and thus creates a culture. Are you saying that this man has not been shaped by Islam, even though he is a devoutly Islamic, or are you saying that only the positive aspects of this man are shaped by Islam, whereas all the negatives are shaped by something else?

Honor killings aren't only practiced amongst Muslims within these regions, but also amongst Christians and Hindus also as was pointed out before. Therefore the indication should show that it is more to do with the culture rather than the religion.

Yes, I fully acknowledged that other creeds produce honor killing, to varying degrees, but we are not talking about a man who has been shaped by these other creeds. We are talking about a man who is culturally Islamic. Your idea that religion does not shape culture, is an evasion. Religion, including the Islamic religion, certainly does shape culture.

william.scherk · February 11, 2011

I feel a great empathy for our Libertarian Muslim. He is attempting to put down roots and establish an independent identity and make his way in the world, but he is handicapped by the pull of some heavy weights or contradictory attachments.

The first is his partial belief in gods.

The second is his partial belief in libertarianism.

The third is his partial adherence to Islam.

The fourth is his partial attachment in his ethnicity.

The fifth is his partial attachment to his citizenship.

The sixth is his partial attachment to reason.

He would like to integrate these incompatible things, to combine all the aspects and attachments and be happy and be wise and be authoritative and be just and fair and honest and respected all at the same time, and it is not possible.

Richard Wiig · February 11, 2011

The first rule of any hadith interpretation is to ensure that the hadith did not contradict the teachings of the Qur'an.. This one does, therefore it's rather irrelevant isn't it?

I don't know if it does or doesn't, all I know is that it exists and that it is considered authentic. In what way does it contradict the Qur'an exactly?

Needless to say, even if it were the case that this was said, the question would be.. Why did he say that? What was the context? Why would there be more women than men in hell? Could it be possible that there would be a population reduction of men where the ratio of women to men on the globe is drastically changed? What type of events could create such a drastic change?

It wasn't the only thing that Muhammad said about women was denigratory, so given that context I think it makes little difference.

Hmmm, his actions in front of other people do not make him devout, rather it's his actions in private that are most important.

So devoutness is not publicly visible? I don't think so. You can see it on the foreheads of hardcore fanatics, that's without seeing any actions whatsoever.

Who knows what his intentions were in creating that organization? Was it to please God or give him a good standing in the community? The real indication about piety is how he was in private and in fact the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him stated "The best of you are those who are best to their wives". If that is any indication, this man is the worst of creation for his actions and certainly not an example of Islam nor piety..

That's one thing that Muhammad said, but it would be folly to assume that that's the totality of it.

Boy did this one backfire!

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