Derek McGowan

They probably had either a bad experience in the past or they were given anecdotal information from one who had a bad experience, or they have only been watching and reading a select side of the media. I've actually have no problem with that but that why someone feels a certain why gives them no further justification then the black mass murderer who blamed his pass treatment I dont have the answer to that. Are you assuming that we should be at this junction of fearing a certain race and therefore being just a little extra-protective of yourself and family? My whole point in bringing all of my examples of white violence up was never to show racism on their part, justification of racism on my part, or any ill will I feel toward them (or you) because I don't have any of those feelings. The whole point was to show how ridiculous it is to look at some numbers (as i could easily do reading Nation of Islam propaganda) and use that to conclude that white people are generally evil. That is stupid for black people to do it and its stupid for Peter to do it. Don't know and don't care. Irrelevant to this whole discussion. We can start a new thread though... Why would I label you a racist? Is it because the standard line is every black man who defends against statistics used out of context can only do this by deciding that the other person is a racist? When out of my 500 posts have I given the impression that I'm that sort of person? Are those people out there? Yes, of course but that not me. Also, when was that my "answer to everything" ? Again, I had a thread on Affirmative action, many people disagreed with me, was my responses to them indicative of one who is looking to accuse those individuals as being racist? I don't even know where you got that from. I'll state for the record- I don't think you are a racist even though you have disagreed with one of my posts. I don't thing Greg is a racist (far from it) though we have disagreed on numerous posts. In fact I'm one of those guys who truly does think that racism (white toward black) has declined tremendously and I personally have never felt a day of racism in my life, not working for a white guy (we've gone on bike rides together and I've been to all his houses) not dating a white Jewish girl for 3 years and being around her family, not going to a predominatly white college and not going to this 4th of July cookout (5th year running) where out of 50 people my family will be possibly once again the only black people there Hey, you made the hypocritical statement Again, the way you feel should have little bearing on how you act in such situations I'm having a bit of trouble sorting out exactly what you're replying to in places. I'd like to point out that your misunderstanding something I'm saying does not equal hypocrisy on my part. I am not a hypocrite. Sorry about that, the quotes just stopped appearing in the boxes. I answered each question you asked in order. Also I use hypocrite and contradiction interchangeably so I am at fault for not further clarifying- If you say that you can understand when someone uses their feelings as justification to use physical force on someone but in another instance say that you are stunned that someone used their feeling to use physical force- that is a contradiction. If somehow you would like to try to make them different because in one instance people were killed and in another they weren't then my question is If I were a police officer and a part of the Nation of Islam, taught to fear the oppressive white, you would defend my actions if I locked up every white male I saw on the basis of my fear? If your 5 year old son was acting out at school doing the exact same thing as the black boys in the group and I, as the principle, decided, based on my fear of whites, that only your son should be suspended from school, you would defend my actions? Sitting in a court room headed by a black judge, you witness 10 cases of auto theft. 8 of them were black defendants and two being white. The black judge gives all the black defendants a pass but locks up the white defendants with the maximum sentences. When asked why he did such a racially motivated thing, the judge says that he fears white oppression. So, you would defend him on that?

Really Greg, really. So you are going all sweeping and stereotypical on me too. I'm quite certain you have black friends/partners/clients. Please post an image of them and their families and say how they compare to the black culture image you posted above. What part of black culture did the Cosby show represent? What part of black culture does this family represent? Sorry, I tried to post more images of portraits I've painted but its just not working out so I guess I'm stuck with the one Epic Fail But my point remains, if 30% of blacks are on welfare (and that is huge compared to 5% of whites) there is still another 70% of blacks who don't follow today's youth culture/stereotype Maybe I could post an image of a trailer park and say that that is white culture?

That is the entire point I've been trying to make. Peter said it was blacks in general, I said it wasn't. Thats it

They probably had either a bad experience in the past or they were given anecdotal information from one who had a bad experience, or they have only been watching and reading a select side of the media. I've actually have no problem with that but that why someone feels a certain why gives them no further justification then the black mass murderer who blamed his pass treatment I dont have the answer to that. Are you assuming that we should be at this junction of fearing a certain race and therefore being just a little extra-protective of yourself and family? My whole point in bringing all of my examples of white violence up was never to show racism on their part, justification of racism on my part, or any ill will I feel toward them (or you) because I don't have any of those feelings. The whole point was to show how ridiculous it is to look at some numbers (as i could easily do reading Nation of Islam propaganda) and use that to conclude that white people are generally evil. That is stupid for black people to do it and its stupid for Peter to do it. Don't know and don't care. Irrelevant to this whole discussion. We can start a new thread though... Why would I label you a racist? Is it because the standard line is every black man who defends against statistics used out of context can only do this by deciding that the other person is a racist? When out of my 500 posts have I given the impression that I'm that sort of person? Are those people out there? Yes, of course but that not me. Also, when was that my "answer to everything" ? Again, I had a thread on Affirmative action, many people disagreed with me, was my responses to them indicative of one who is looking to accuse those individuals as being racist? I don't even know where you got that from. I'll state for the record- I don't think you are a racist even though you have disagreed with one of my posts. I don't thing Greg is a racist (far from it) though we have disagreed on numerous posts. In fact I'm one of those guys who truly does think that racism (white toward black) has declined tremendously and I personally have never felt a day of racism in my life, not working for a white guy (we've gone on bike rides together and I've been to all his houses) not dating a white Jewish girl for 3 years and being around her family, not going to a predominatly white college and not going to this 4th of July cookout (5th year running) where out of 50 people my family will be possibly once again the only black people there Hey, you made the hypocritical statement Again, the way you feel should have little bearing on how you act in such situations

And yet you state that it IS justified for a white sheriff to treat a black man more harshly because of that white person's previous treatment?? thats a loss of credibility ..... p.s. not that I am in anyway sharing the belief of the college students. Everyone gets treated the same far as I'm concerned

Uh no, there is no question. Again, this was posted in response to something that Peter said not to make a separate point for myself and definitely not to accuse police or anyone else of being racist, fearful or any other thing. It doesn't matter if the group being arrested more often are space aliens who no one trusts. It doesn't even matter if the space aliens (or blacks) have historically been more prone to commit crime. All that matters is that that perception causes more arrests and that skews the numbers in the context that Peter is trying to use them. Again, refer to my poor incarceration rate analogy. Peter doesn't even take Greg or Brant's stance in saying that currently the black community suffers greatly from lack of two person household (true) or the fact that "acting white" is the most ridiculous accusation ever uttered in the modern era (I mentioned this and several other downfalls of my community in my affirmative action thread) I could list the many problems in this generation of youth, from poor role models, to always trying to act hard and impress your clique/gang. But Peter states firmly that the evidence he sees in this and possible the last generation, supports the thesis that blacks are natively evil, lacking in intelligence, extremely violent and uncivilized. When you make a blanket statement like that its easy to poke holes in it. What worse for him is that he refuses to even acknowledge the very same behavior that exists in his own race of whom have had their civilization decimated by the presence of blacks

Also explains why judges are more likely to convict and give harsher sentences??

And some would be more likely to use the "context" of a black man carrying a weapon than a white man when calling the sheriff. Sounds the same to me

Im going to have to assume that you missed my point Mikee. So, I will ask you, what do you think I meant to portray when I posted this video? Was I attempting to showcase racism in America? That would be wrong. Was I using this as a another foundation to my whites-are-violent-too narrative? Not at all Is this to show that I am justified in feeling a certain way against whites? The fact is that I don't feel a certain way against whites. And I don't hate cops. I posted this video, which shows one example (my thread on my run-ins with police is another, my thread on Affluenza is another) to discredit Peter's continuous reliance on incarceration rates to prove how violent and uncivilized the black race is. If we can clearly see, from many records, not just this video, that blacks are locked up at a higher rate whether it is from racism, fear, or the police's personal experience then its not proper to use those numbers to justify such a position. I could post another video where a affluent driver (white) ran over and killed a cyclist (also white) and got away scott-free. My point would be that you can't simply issue a blanket statement saying that the majority of people serving sentences in jail are poor, therefore the poor are uncivilized. No, you will have to break the data out much more than that because its clear that more of the rich would be serving higher rates jail time if not for their position and wealth. It distorts the numbers without considered nuance. But again I ask, what do you think my point was in posting this video?

See, in your mind something like this Is fine. Its fine because clearly the black person IS more violent so he should be arrested more. But at the same time you would cite these arrest records like racial profiling hasn't had an effect on it. Circular reasoning? We say they are more violent, therefore we should lock them up more. They are locked up more which proves that they are more violent.

Peter, Sooooo, not going to clarify the peaceful nature of whites when juxtaposed with the true history? Just going to ignore that whole thing? Secondly when you say what history are you talking about? I've posted very real occurrences in the past 1000 years of white violence. Name some historical instances that would back up your theory. Outside of the past 50 years maybe.

Thats starting to sound like a threat to me, and coming from the more peaceful race too Just the fact that you took my statement in which I asked you Would I be justified in your mind to follow the Nation of Islam's calling of Caucasians "white devils" when they select and choose the violent history of whites to mean that I was threatening to go Louis Farrakhan, clearly shows your total tunnel vision. You pick and choose and substitute your own reality. I'm still hoping at some point you will reconcile the violent history of whites with your peaceful and civilized person comparison.

Perhaps I will, thanks

I guess I have a different definition for intelligence. To me it is based on one's proficiency with two abilities- 1st. Creativity- the ability to physically solve problems in order to create things but also to imagine new things and situations, abstract or practical, and at the same time observe the implications that such imagined concepts would create. 2nd. The ability to hold multiple ideas in one's head at the same time, cross reference and reconcile opposing views, rooting out hypocrisy/contradictions and to maintain as close to a fact based scientific integrity as one's knowledge can take them. A connected 3rd would be the extent of one's memory and strength of recall. Peter's ability to offer justifications and statistics (which haven't been checked for context or against other known facts) isn't a stand-in for intelligence BUT As Greg pointed out recently, one's intelligence has very little to do with what kind of person one turn's out to be. A genius serial rapist who never gets caught has brought nothing to human existence.

I agree with Stefan's assessment

libertarian joke How many libertarians does it take to change a light bulb? None, if the bulb needed changing the market would have done it by now

Brant, I am on my phone right now (at art studio- no computers allowed!) So I can't post the link, but look up Texas revolution on Wikipedia. Basically American colonists flooded that part of Mexico. They then took issue with the Mexican government. Instead of leaving and heading back to us territory, they decided to just break the land off from Mexico and become a separate entity. Again, the Mexicans didn't do this but colonists. When Mexico stepped in like "hold on now, this is our land" the US was like "uh uh, they are with me" thus ensues the Mexican American war. A bit like the Russian Ukraine thing but with more guns and death

True William. Because from his position it's easy to leave and entire continent when someone has put you in bondage and you don't like it. But the problem I take is that he seems to justify the actions of the slavers by saying that if the slaves didn't like it they would have left. Meaning that if they put up with it then there is nothing wrong with it. People are justification machines but Peter is in overdrive!

I also find it highly suspect that you keep mentioning rates of incarceration when it's been an open fact for years now that blacks are profiled by the police and then face a much higher possibility of getting jail time when faced with a judge. Selene, just put up a post that said that there was a 100 to 1 ratio of blacks getting convicted of basically the same crime. I wrote a thread on my getting profiled by the police and I've never done anything. How can you continue to use such numbers? Finally your ridiculous post on the movie barbershop and your associates that say it mirrors life. I could easily point to the movie Selma and ask my 97 year old grandmother if it accurately depicted white behavior in the south and she would say yes. So what?

Why the focus on rap music? Why is there no place for blacks and black culture part in jazz? In rock and roll? R and B? Blues? Reggae? Is it because those music forms don't fit your version of black culture?

I don't think you have been picking up on what I have been putting down. You have made the accusation that several depictions of violence among blacks represents the entire race. My remarks are not to show that whites are violent but to show that they have the same record of violence. My previous post was, there is good and bad in each of us. For you to make reference to the troubles of the last two generations of blacks and rap music without acknowledging the many generations of white violence shows your level of tunnel vision. How do you reconcile your view of white supremacy (from standpoint of violence) with the witch trials? The inquisition? The third riech and concentration camps? The treatment, death marches and such, of native Americans? The beating of Rodney king? Jim crow laws? Apartheid? The forcing open of Japan? The conquest of Texas? The treatment of aborigines? The hunted extinction of multiple species such as the dodo bird? The assassination of several presidents? The dropping of nuclear weapons on civilian populations? The expansion of the British empire into India? The expansion of the Roman empire?

Peter, I'm going to need you to answer my questions like I answered yours. Continously spouting out the same ideas over and over is not a debate

"Misunderstanding" is an understatement. I took Derek's sig line at face value as being a black value by which he lived because he deemed it to be important enough to include it in every post he writes. If I had a sig line, it should be: "All I want to do is work work work to earn your money." Greg I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not especially since you and I had a multi day discussion over my monetary views in my book thread, where I stated firmly that I'm for the dissolution of money all together. I would love to see it vanish so I doubt that I would be the one wanting to stick someone up over the desire of it. p.s. Why would I love to see it vanish? Refresh your memory here http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13854

This shows the level of thinking that you are applying to this subject. Of course its safe. I do not have bars on my windows and everyday I leave the car running with the keys in it while I go into banks (not to rob the !) and stores. In your mind, do you imagine mad max style gangs roving the streets raping and killing with abandon? Behind every establishment is a alleyway where, if you choose to travel, you might just lose a limb, or a spouse, or your parents (ala Batman)? Allow me to enlighten you. The vast majority of murders in the city are of those who are in the game. Random people are not a significant part of our murder rate. At the same time, should I ask (as a black man)if its safe for me to walk in a lily white neighborhood during every year up until the 70s? Or maybe I should ask if it is safe to be a black person in dispute with a cop today. Seems that I would be more prone to random violence then you would if you walk through my neighborhood now. In fact there are white people that live in my neighborhood and I live no more than a mile from where the Baltimore Riots kicked off. Based on your previous statements and mentality, I'd probably go with a racist. Anytime you want to pick and choose whatever stories to fit your own narrative and then focus that narrative around a certain race, then yeah... But it's all good though. The great news is that people that hold your mentality will all soon be dead (of natural causes hopefully) and the human race can move on. p.s. I made that above statement as one of fact and not as a for of malice. History shows that as the old guard dies off, whether it is in science or culture, their old fashioned ideas are cast aside