Richard Wiig

I am peaceful.

God help us if you ever got power.

The last thing I ever want is power. I'm not a political person, and prefer just to get on with my life left alone and unmolested.

... it is not possible to be bigoted against a system of Ideas.

Sure it is. Look at you.

It's funny how "system of ideas" get disassociated from humans when talking about your bigotry, but affixes itself to humans real fast when you go into hate-preaching mode.

Like I said, bigots do not understand what a double standard is when dealing with their own bigotry.

Michael

It's funny how opposition to socialism is not treated by you as bigotry to Socialists, but opposition to Islam is treated by you as bigotry towards Muslims.

That is the realm of the war of ideas.

Bullshit.

There is a physical war being fought with some Muslims in the name of their version of the religion. That's where we need to fight Muslims and their toxic version of Islam with guns.

A war of ideas with other Muslims can only happen among peaceful folks.

And the only way to win that war is with ideas and the different conduits for them.

Not the garbage you preach.

Michael

I am peaceful. Criticising Islamic doctrines and practices is peaceful. Verbalising opposition to liberty and life destructive ideas, whether socialist, communist, Christian, Multiculturalist, or whatever else ideas, is peaceful. Take the guy who asked the questions about Muhammad, and raised the point that to fix the problems with Islam requires a rejection of a few Islamic doctrines. He raised questions that must be asked if Islam is to be reformed. He is also raising peoples awareness of Islamic doctrines. Doing so is peaceful. It is also necessary to achieve a free and peaceful world.

Bigotry against that religion is not the same as bigotry against any particular adherent of it, but against particular negative manifestations such as state religion, Jihad, pedophilia, slavery, forced conversion, conquest, death as a value, etc.

Brant,

I do not reject your list of negative manifestations, I agree with you about those things, but I do reject the form of argumentation that led to your list. I arrive at it through a different process.

Let me give an example of why I reject the epistemological process you just used. Let's replace religion with the black race and see how that sounds. Your statement could be rewritten as follows:

Bigotry against the black race is not the same as bigotry against any particular black person, but against particular negative manifestations such as...

You fill in the rest.

Of course, it is a gross error to equate a system of ideas with a race of people. Also, it is not possible to be bigoted against a system of Ideas. It is non-sensical to say that opponents of a system of ideas are bigoted towards those ideas.

Its odd but since rebels took over the Syrian checkpoint leading to Israel, I have not heard of any conflicts there.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/27/world/meast/syria-crisis/index.html

What the west cannot do is wage war against the Muslim religion as such.

--Brant

That is the realm of the war of ideas. Unfortunately, Islamic law considers that to be acts of war against Islam, which is why so many people are murdered simply for speaking.

I'd like to see the day when Muslims get off their asses and clean house in their OWN damned religion... and quit leaving the job to the "infidels" to have to do for them.

Greg,

You mean Muslims like Glenn Mohammed?

Infidels will never reform Islam. Only Muslims will. We should encourage the ones who are working at it instead of giving ears to those who damn the.

Raising difficult questions that need answers. Working towards creating a sanctuary where Muslim reformers can be safe, does not damn them.

No Christians regard the KKK as being even remotely Christian. Only the KKK members do.

Greg,

Christianity is the banner they fly under. Christianity is what they preach. The Bible is their holy book.

They're Christian.

Maybe rotten Christians, but still Christians.

Ignoring that is denying reality. I see no reason to do that.

Which Christian doctrines support their actions? Is Christianity in fact what they do preach? If they distort things so much then clearly it can't be Christianity anymore. They have distorted it.

No Christians regard the KKK as being even remotely Christian. Only the KKK members do.

Greg,

Christianity is the banner they fly under. Christianity is what they preach. The Bible is their holy book.

They're Christian.

Maybe rotten Christians, but still Christians.

Ignoring that is denying reality. I see no reason to do that.

Which Christian doctrines support their actions? Is Christianity in fact what they do preach?

Another difference is that today evil people can't hijack Christianity

A strange saying that. What does it really mean to hijack a religion? it's meaningless really.

I accept your point on Islam. The Islamic fascists are literally doing exactly what their (un)holy scriptures tell them to do.

Which, being the case, means that Islam is not being hijacked. I still think the term is meaningless, and nothing other than another non-concept used to evade reality.

Telling the truth about Hamas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KakxXN5Z-XI

Bernard Gaynor responds to Glen Mohammed, who wrote this article in The Australian about fixing the problems with his religion. Gaynor poses some difficult questions.

http://bernardgaynor.com.au/a-challenge-for-glenn-mohammed/

Another difference is that today evil people can't hijack Christianity

A strange saying that. What does it really mean to hijack a religion? it's meaningless really.

Beware of the non-expert experts, including me.

Brant,

I do, especially non-expert experts on Islamic culture, but I still give you a pass.

God help me, I don't know why...

Michael

There are various Muslim sects that are quite peaceful. Why aren't 1.2 billion Muslims coming at us?

--Brant

you're just hedging in case I convert

Does Islamic law say that all Muslims should come at us?

Greg,

That same rhetorical form can be applied to Christianity, that the only good Christian is a fundamentalist Christian, which is a bad person, and only bad Christians make good people (or to use your exact format: the good Christians are bad, and the bad Christians are good).

How does that sound turned around? Not so clever?

Whether it is true or false surely depends on the doctrines and tenets of Christianity. If being a true Christian means to be bad in terms of objective morality, then it's true to say that a good christian is bad and a bad christian is good. This has nothing to do with being clever, and in terms of how it feels to Greg, entirely irrelevant. It doesn't matter how he feels, it just matters what the facts are.

Beware of the non-expert experts, including me.

--Brant

If they have cherry picked, as some people claim, then it is easily shown, however, those who make the claim never show it. They merely claim it and from then on it is supposed to be a done deal. When you examine what Mohammedans use to justify their actions though, you find that they aren't taking anything out of context. They are referencing not you, or me, to justify their actions. They are looking to the great Scholars who have devoted their whole life and being, past and present, to the study of Islam, not primarily to justify their actions, but to direct their actions. The only verses I have ever been shown to be taken out of context are the verses that apologists for Islam constantly regurgitate.

And they have not much more potency in living their own lives. A religion of "submission" is a religion of subjugation, of oneself and others. Praying five times a day pushes "God" in and you out. Progress too. A productive and creative mind needs time to itself--a lot of time.

Brant,

You have hit on what I believe is the core mind-control influence of Islam. Not that garbage of cherry-picking verses as if a verse has puppetmaster-like powers over large groups of people.

You have the five prayers, among other things, and then you have the mainstream teachings to fill the susceptible mind. The Islamic State followers don't have their minds filled with cherry picked verses. They have their minds filled with core tenets of Islam. They take the teachings and example of their prophet far too seriously to cherry pick.

Sheer brilliance!!!

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/moderate-islam-is-multiculturalism-misspelled/

The day is getting closer where no one will be able to deny that Islam is the problem. The sooner it comes the better.

Rand was quick to anger, and two beheadings would make her very, very angry.

Hell... you don't think that after 9/11 her head might have exploded???

It is a two fer for the Jihadis. And American and a Jew with one swing of the sword.

If only it was the swinging of a sword.

Turan Dursun.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/turkish-ex-mufti-on-muhammad-so-many-people-cant-live-properly-because-of-him

A claim of links to Turkey. Whether or not they've ever funded them, who knows, but they certainly must have aided them.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/30/ISIS-Fighter-Claims-Turkey-Funds-the-Jihadist-Group

effect (not affect)

I know that.

Best way to stop the spread of Islam in the west as far as I can tell is this:

Instantly and irreversibly revoke all welfare benefits and social programs.

It would have a huge effect, but it isn't going to happen. First and foremost, there needs to be a widespread knowledge of what Islam is among Westerners. There's a big machine in motion aiming to ensure that that never happens.

Over the next hundred years Muslims will be isolated and neutralized if not driven out of Europe rather than allowed to attain any critical cultural and political mass.

Maybe, but it depends on how deep multiculturalism has managed to penetrate. It might be that Europe becomes subsumed by Islam and you have an even greater looking across the shores to America. Regardless of whether you are right or wrong though, your idea of what will happen shows the real need to deal with the issue as soon as possible, rather than later. Fight it now and less lives will be lost. Fight it later, and it doesn't bear thinking about.