9thdoctor

The Prisoner I just rented the 1st DVD of this, after reading this thread. I like it so far, though compared to Ivan Denisovich I’d have to say #6 has it pretty cushy. Thanks for the recommendation.

This thread has drifted so wildly, and I keep catching whiffs of Eau de Troll, but I’ve been wanting to jump in to defend James Joyce. I think his work is rejected with too much vehemence in Rand-land, reference this: http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3251 The main thing I have to say about Ulysses is that it must be heard, not read. Reading it off the page is torture, but when read aloud with the right accent, without which the puns get lost, and proper attention to rhythm, its very enjoyable. By turns funny, moving, and thought provoking. However I do think it takes too long to wind down, Penelope is the Galt’s Speech of the Modernists. Everyone skims it. Much of Joyce’s poetry is great, Chamber Music and Pomes Penyeach bring joys to the eyes and ears. Samuel Barber set some of them to music, worth looking up. Dubliners, mentioned earlier in the thread, is an early lesser work, I agree The Dead is the main draw. Portrait of the Artist is ok, its about coming of age and casting off religion, but didn’t resonate much with me. Finnegans Wake remains beyond me, though its cyclical structure has been influential (e.g. Thomas Pynchon’s Gravity’s Rainbow). On another matter, the first sex encounter between Dagny and Francisco is being debated here, this calls to my mind the scene early in When Harry met Sally, they’re discussing Casablanca, and Harry concludes Sally’s just never had any great sex.

Also "the Tramp" from Atlas is similar to the "Holy Fool" character in Boris. But Holy Fools (aka village idiots) occur in a lot of Russian literature, so the connection remains tenuous. BTW the story for Boris Godunov was by Pushkin, who's often characterized as the Russian Shakespeare. I heard/read somewhere that Rand thought highly of Pushkin, I think it was in one of Peikoff's podcasts.

I’m being called a patsy on SOLOP, even my very mortal existence is in question. In the midst of a typical rant, Perigo notes: "Funny how the cockroaches say this stuff on Lying, but not here." I don’t post there, it’s “Linz’s house”, no thanks. Character assassination? No, identification.

“people usually refrain from violence to correct laws they regard as enormously unjust” Good thing too. Imagine if all the people who were convinced that abortion is murder decided to use violence to correct the law. Given their premises, the pro-lifers are the biggest compromisers of all.

Rachmaninoff’s therapy was nothing like you see in Woody Allen’s characters (e.g. Annie Hall). He’s been going for 10-20 years, he writes it off as a religious contribution, and if he’s not cured by next year he’s going to Lourdes. I was only pointing out an implication in the statement attributed to Ronald Hamoway, I don’t know who that is, maybe there’s more context behind it. I don't think you can speak of a most rational composer, there's no meaningful way to measure. Obviously Bach vs. Ozzy is no contest, but Bach vs. Handel? Boris Godunov is a great spectacle, a faithful production should be a feast for the eyes and ears. BTW that period in Russian history received a good recent movie treatment, its called 1612. This thread got me thinking about thematic similarities between Boris and Atlas Shrugged. In Boris, “the people”, represented by the chorus, are shown to be complicit in their own sufferings. From here to Rand’s concept of the sanction of the victim takes a step or two, but I think a link can be made. Boris may have been an inspiration. I’m reminded that Ronald Merrill made a neat case for Rand being inspired by the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Are you writing a paper? In Alan Greenspan's memoir (page 52) he writes about his relationship with Rand and then his career, and states: "Compromise on public issues is the price of civilization, not an abrogation of principle"

I smell a Troll. Best not to feed them.

Chris Grieb: “We have long posts about charges by a nut, Perigo. Don't people have better things to do.” Some thoughts on why this issue doesn’t go away: A fair evaluation of Jim Peron is not self evident. The time factor (20+ years) and the fact that he didn’t have a long running pattern of involvement with NAMBLA is critical. If you credit the innuendo that his involvement was more ongoing, or evaluate his single contribution to Unbound as worthy of a life sentence of moral condemnation, you’ll be on the other side. Actual pedophiles do get a kind of life sentence, having to register their whereabouts for decades after their prison sentences are complete. No one claims Peron himself is a pedophile, but this case rests on a couple of fault lines among Objectivists, the first being the issue of sanctioning the sanctioners, the other being the credibility of the Brandens. It relates to nearly everything Objectivists fight about, tied into an emotionally charged issue (pedophilia); the combination is about as explosive as witchcraft in Salem. Fireworks draw eyes. Its ironic that Peron is involved with Laissez Faire Books, which was the flashpoint for the Kelley/Peikoff split. Sad to say, but Barbara Branden’s support for Peron invigorated his enemies, coming as it did right when PARC was coming out. Everyone with an axe to grind has found a lively battlefield. I’m wondering how to help extinguish this fire, so many man hours have gone into it, and it seems there’s no way to settle it. I’m still new to it, I hope I’m not making it worse. If only Chris Sciabarra and JARS would get involved, we’d have the battle of 5 armies from The Hobbit. News flash: Roman Polanski was just arrested by the Swiss for what he did in 1977. His long term flouting of the law nearly puts him in the O.J. class, I don’t know yet if I’m rooting for him to get nailed or not. He paid off the girl a long time ago, and has been in a kind of professional exile for over 30 years.

This subject has quite a history, frankly its unbelievable. Having looked through it, both here and on SOLOP, I want to ask a few questions and make some observations. Sorry if they aren’t in any particular order. If Peron had written for Unbound last month, instead of 20 years ago, how different would the moral judgement be? Is there a statute of limitations on delivering personal moral condemnations? I think there should be, but there’s much room for debate on how to measure the relevant variables, particularly in this case. Several people on this site write about having long time positive associations with Peron, Barbara Branden most notably. This counts for something, and largely explains the difference in opinion among so many in listland. Not knowing Jim Peron, after looking at Unbound I can’t deny some of Dan Edge’s comments resonate with me. But I’m at a point I’ll characterize as reasonable doubt. Still there are those “stomach feelings”. I find Unbound simply shocking, the most charitable interpretation I can make of Peron’s contribution is that he was in need of a catharsis, and channeled it unwisely. Also he certainly didn’t think it would get the readership that it has. Clearly it’s been a painful lesson for him. Lie down with dogs… Lindsay Perigo is accused of using underhanded tactics to eliminate Jim Peron qua political rival in New Zealand. The main evidence for this seems to be Madeleine Flanagan’s acknowledgement of hours spent on the phone getting advice from LP as she was preparing the campaign to get Peron kicked out of the country. Is that all there is on LP, besides his utterly vile personality? The latter’s been more than enough to keep me away from the hospitality of “Linz’s house”. I find SOLOP to be reminiscent of Jabba’s palace, everyone there is destined to slide down to the Rancor, and sooner rather than later. I can’t imagine how Robert Campbell in particular puts up with the names he’s called. What I like about this site is that the ban on Branden bashing means less bashing overall. I wish it was even less. Here Christopher Hitchens mocks Objectivist schisms, it starts just after 6 minutes in: James Randi, Penn & Teller, Richard Dawkins, and many other figures I think highly of were there, and what Hitchens says is spot on. Ugh.

A woman gets on a bus with her baby. The bus driver says: "That's the ugliest baby that I've ever seen. Ugh!" The woman goes to the rear of the bus and sits down, fuming. She says to a man next to her: "The driver just insulted me!" The man says: "You go right up there and tell him off – go ahead, I'll hold your monkey for you.

Reidy: I agree, I’m changing my vote. On Rachmaninoff, there’s an implication above that because he went to a psychiatrist his rationality is suspect. Rachmaninoff was affected by the negative public and critical reaction to his 1st Symphony, he lost his self-confidence, he got some therapy, and went on to produce his best work. Given this I’d say his going to a psychiatrist was laudable, in fact a credit to his rationality. Nevertheless, I don’t think Rand’s statement ("most rational composer") is supportable. FWIW they’re both buried in the same cemetery in New York (Kensico).

In the Mary Ann Sures interview linked to above a couple of unfamiliar works are referenced, both are available on youtube, Mausi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR4dNorb4c4 Who knew Germans could scat? Thomé Simple Aveu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDM-mY3WBYI A bit of a snoozer at first blush.

A Google search for "Ayn Rand Boris Godunov" turned up this: http://facetsofaynrand.com/book/chap7.html Sures says that the Boris music was Halley's theme (the 5th concerto presumably). This is consistent with what Peikoff is saying, though not identical. If anyone would know what the music she associated with Francisco was, I think it would be Allan Blumenthal. Does anyone have contact with him, can someone ask him? For fun, I'm going to speculate that it was this: Bursting with frenetic energy yet nobility.

The youtube link above is to a performance of the Rimsky Korsakoff version, which is certainly the version Rand would have known. The original wasn't even recorded until the mid-70's. I prefer the original, the differences are substantial, its too much to go into here. We can only speculate about her reaction to Mahler, but wouldn't you agree the 4th is much less "malevolent" than the Rachmaninoff 2nd Piano Concerto? Much of the Rach is grim and brooding, certainly the 1st movement is. In The Fountainhead she only mentions the 3rd movement, and even it has its dark moments. There's the old story about the MGM exec who demanded that there be "no minor chords" in MGM musicals. Maybe the characterization of her favorite "tiddlywink" music, plus the weird Beethoven stories, leads us to wrongly conclude Rand was just as unsophisticated. I don't think Rand's musical tastes are of much interest, except in this case where it relates to her fiction.

BTW the scene in question is omitted sometimes, they did it in Miami a few years ago and they cut the whole Polish act. If there's a cast member listed for "Marina" then the scene will be included. Recordings always include it though. I thought the Peikoff shot was out of place because there was nothing in the material that I shared that gave rise to it. I know this isn't Noodlefood, but I didn't even understand what Selene meant at first, I really thought he'd posted to the wrong thread. Peikoff mentions (same podcast) that there was a particular piece that represented Francisco, but he can't remember what it is. Any chance one of the original collective knows and will share? How to get one of the Branden's attention? Rand's view on Beethoven is not in writing anywhere that I've seen, but I've heard weird tales of her psychologizing those who admitted admiring his music. I've never met anyone who has shared or defended her view. The crazy face photo is Christopher Eccleston as Dr. Who, BTW.

Selene, I find your comment ambiguous. Is it a shot at Peikoff? If so it seems out of place.

Peikoff’s latest podcast includes him discussing Rand’s favorite music, it starts about 7 minutes in. He reveals that to “capture the emotional meaning of the end of Atlas Shrugged” she would play the “love music” from Boris Godunov by Mussorgsky. On the last note she would draw a sign of the dollar in the air. I’d never heard this story before. Here’s a youtube link to a performance of the piece: The “love music” starts about 2 minutes in. I’m a big fan of this work and am sure this is the right part (Peikoff isn’t sure of the right Act/Scene). Given the stories of her antipathy to Beethoven, on grounds of malevolence, I’m amazed that she enjoyed Boris Godunov, which is as dark as can be. She would certainly have been exposed to it in Russia, it’s arguably the defining Russian opera, with Eugene Onegin by Tchaikovsky being second in line. Perhaps she only liked this excerpt, its quite different in tone from the rest of the opera.

Der ver zwei peanuts, valking down der strasse, and von vas... assaulted! peanut. Ho-ho-ho-ho. Ernest Scribbler lebe lange!

*Welcome aboard. Are you a doctor? Dr. Who fan. I'm a CPA actually.